cranky

Well if you think the talent of the receivers a QB has to throw to does not make a difference in their output, than there's nothing else for me to say because I think it makes all the diference in the world. Guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

According to ProFootball Reference's advance passing stats: Bryce Young is at 22% bad passes Caleb Williams is at 21% bad passes Cam Ward is at 22% bad passes Michael Penix is at 22% bad passes He doesn't look "crazy" high to me when compared to others.

Bree's is not known for attacking the field

I disagree about the talent not making a difference. Last season, Bryce completed 77.4% of his passes to Theilen. He only completed 58.3% to Legette. The only difference is one is a better receiver / route runner than the other.

Not cherry picking when I was simply addressing the point of too many ints and I see no reason why Bryces should be "drastically" higher especially given the fact that Newton had Steve Smith, Greg Olsen and Brad Lafell to throw to while Bryce had Theileln, Mingo, and Johnson. If anything, Bryce should have been worse but since you accuse me of cherry picking, I'll add this: Newton completed 57.7 % of his passes with the Pro Bowl players; Young completed 60.9% even with inferior talent to throw to.

Don't forget about the Bills

Well if Mahomes is the standard to measure by, then 90% of the QB's in the NFL are failures. I'll gladly post all the data for you later this evening. I've been looking for an excuse to throw them up here

I focused on the TO's because the guy said he had too many turnovers. If you had read that, you would have understood the point I was making. And as far as TO's, I included Ints and fumbles measured against drop backs. Felt that wa the fairest way to look at it. Looking at just Int's, he looks even better.

I have all that data ( yards, atts, tds, fumbles, ypa, ypa, etc) and would be glad to post it all but I can assure you it will not help your arguement

It's not cherry picking. Its going back 17 games and comparing it to second years for the others. I guess I could have gone into everyones 3rd season and starting from game 6 going back but that's too much work given it wouldn't change the results that much. And as far as starting from now, it's because that's where we are. I could care less about his first year.

I get the feeling they are going from having the worst rush defense in history last season to having the worst pass defense this year

He was benched part of his second season and I didn't think it was fair to use abbreviated numbers to compare with a whole season with the other. Given how badly you and other have claimed him to be this year, I would have thought you would have preferred his numbers from this year to be included.

First off the point is his turnover percentage is no worse than any in that list so saying he has too many turnovers is simply not accurate - at least when compared to others. Secondly, you'll have to show me something to prove the aggresive and accounting part. It's just your opinion at this point to me.

"turnovers are his biggest issue. I think his turnovers are mostly happenning due to his size and not being able to see the field clearly in a condensed pocket" They're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. If you look at just his last 17 games, he has 11 ints and 5 fumbles. That's on 518 drop backs so about 3.08% of his dropbacks resulted in a turnover. Newton in his second year had 15 turnovers on 485 attempts so he was also right at 3.09% as well. Baker Mayfield 4.3% Sam Darnold 3.6% Drew Brees 3.06% Andy Dalton 3.78% So I don't think it's fair to say he has a problem with turnovers, at least not when comparing him to other starting QBs in their second year

Point is the OP never said anything about Bryce being good if he had some talent around him. That was all you.

Couldn't agree more!

You guys are soooo sensitive. Pretty sure the OP wasn't posting a "Bryce-is-really-good-if-he-had-a-team thread".

So are you saying Rhule never set Baker up for success. That's part of the reason he didn't work out here?

I can agree that not everyone who dilslikes him are not haters. But there are several around here who regardless of the topic, will somehow get a dig in on Young. Doesn't matter what the original topic is, they will somehow get around to blaming Bryce for it. We just had a great win and are at .500 for the first time in years and people are still making post disparaging Young. A few people around here just can't stand to see him succeed. They are welcome to their opinion - I just get tired of seeing them rag on him in every post.

Hate to tell you but the haters are gonna hate around here. No amount of logic or facts will change that. They never wanted him and will gladly watch the Panthers go down in flames to prove they are right.

It's hard to both focus on stopping the run and be aggresive with the pas rush. As long as they continue to stop the run like they did against Dallas and the Dolphins, I won't worry too much about it. Especially given the promise the two rookies have shown.

I am not a conspiracy guy and usually take these arguements with a grain of salt but I just read this study from the university of Texas El Paso where they looked at the Chiefs playoff games and they found a clear bias towards the Chiefs in those games. I know the Cowboys aren't the Chiefs but they are America's team and bring in ratings (ad dollars) so I can see the bias. UTEP study showing officiating favoring the Chiefs

If you look at every QBs chart on the NextGen stats page, you will see Young pretty much threw more passes past the 10 yard line than any of the other QB's this week and he completed a higher percentage of them this week as well. The same goes for last week. He doesn't have the most both weeks but he is in the top 5 both weeks. I don't know why everyone keeps griping about this subject. The charts show it simply isn't true.

Saying "overwhelming teams with the run and occasionally mixing in the pass when they dont expect it can help a qbs efficiency a lot." doesn't apply to every QB in the NFL is simply foolish.

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