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Kyle Orton may be the most ironic good QB in decades.

Delhomeboy

By Delhomeboy,
in Carolina Panthers

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bigpro Newbie

bigpro

Posted
Posted

The only thing I don't like about Cutler is that he tries to be a hero far too much. He forces passes he has no right to. Otherwise yeah he's an elite QB. Those are REALLY tough to come by so, regardless of how well Orton is doing in Denver, both teams should be happy with the trade.

I guess we have to define "elite".

He's never won more games in a season than he's lost. To me, that would be the first requirement of an elite quarterback.

Second, he's never been to the playoffs. That would be the second.

Next, winning a playoff game, would be the third, but, well, see the second one.

If by elite you mean "Top 50% of all quarterbacks playing", well, maybe.

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Epistaxis Newbie

Epistaxis

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Likelihood of Chris Simms producing wins>>>>>>>>>Caleb Hanie producing even one win. And with Cutler throwing his body around behind a suspect o-line, I challenge your first assertion anyway.

I can accept elite qb and will go on record as saying that Cutler will never be an elite- and if he couldn't break 500 in Denver against the AFC West, he ain't gonna do it in Chicago against the NFC North.

Oh, and "number of years"- if you don't give him a HUGE contract in the next year, those "number of years" will be somewhere else anyway. Might be hard to pay an elite salary to a 500 qb who only THINKS he's an elite. Where are you going to get the WRs anyway to help him be an elite? Guess not the draft.

I think you pretty much already made the point yourself that any team that is on their backup QB is pretty much screwed, so who gives a chit.

Unless you have a "quarterback controversy", or "2 good QBs", which is homer/teamspeak for "we don't have ONE good QB"

He will get a big contract, and will be with the BEars for the next 7-10 years.

No more aformentioned QB controversies.

Set at the most important position on the field.

As to getting a WR in the draft, perhaps you meant in the first round of the draft.

And unless I am mistaken, you can pick up pretty decent WR talent in pretty much any round(*cough* third round *cough* Utah), assuming your draft people know what the hell they are doing. And I will admit sometimes I wonder if the Bears know what to do in the draft, given past failures, which was another reason I was happy about the Cutler deal. A known quantity. No signing bonus. Pre-developed. etc.

Sorry, don't see your point. Unless you are seeing what your team has, what it has in the pipe, and maybe have a bit of QB envy.;)

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bigpro Newbie

bigpro

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Unless you are seeing what your team has, what it has in the pipe, and maybe have a bit of QB envy.;)

Seriously? That's all you have? You Bears fans are the biggest set of delusional homers I've ever seen. I wouldn't redo the Cutler trade in the opposite direction if you'd throw Forte in. Seriously.

Though Cutler might want a redo as he looks at the system he got himself into ( "This league is funny. It's all about timing," he said. "You could be one of the best players in the league but if you're not in the right system, you don't have the right people around you, there're a lot of different aspects that go into making a player or breaking a player. It's working for Kyle (Orton). It's working for Josh (McDaniels), and it's working for the Broncos. They've got a good thing going.").

The bottom line is, and you said yourself it will take years to analyze, is that the Bears actually ARE not set at the most important position for the next 7-10 years. Even worse, they've handcuffed their ability to improve at other positions.

Though I guess I sound as silly as a 49ers/Eagles/Cowboys fan warning Eagles/Cowboys/Bills fans about TO.

Oh, wait.....

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Epistaxis Newbie

Epistaxis

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I guess we have to define "elite".

He's never won more games in a season than he's lost. To me, that would be the first requirement of an elite quarterback.

Second, he's never been to the playoffs. That would be the second.

Next, winning a playoff game, would be the third, but, well, see the second one.

If by elite you mean "Top 50% of all quarterbacks playing", well, maybe.

Cheeses H. Rice man!

He is in his 4th season!

It isn't like I'm propping up a career journeyman with 10 years service here man.

Hell, I don't even know if he will ever be mentioned in the same breath as the "elites", but for chrissakes he was a Pro Bowler in his 3rd season and 2nd as a starter on a pretty cruddy to average team!

Yeesh.

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bigpro Newbie

bigpro

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Cheeses H. Rice man!

He is in his 4th season!

It isn't like I'm propping up a career journeyman with 10 years service here man.

Hell, I don't even know if he will ever be mentioned in the same breath as the "elites", but for chrissakes he was a Pro Bowler in his 3rd season and 2nd as a starter on a pretty cruddy to average team!

Yeesh.

Uhm, that was a reply to Miyaww or however you spell his name, not to you.

But a little touchy, are we?

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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The Ayers and Smith thing is a reach. Lots of assumptions there.

Orton is a finished product.

It remains to be seen if Cutler at age 26 will mature in to a quarterback with not only an amazing skillset but a mindset of an elite QB.

We shall see. Again, I think it is waaaaaay premature to make any judgments about this trade, since this season is only 6 weeks old.

The Bears could still stumble or pick up steam.

So could the Broncos.

Overall I'd say the Bears picked up a franchise QB that is still very young and could lead the franchise for the next 8-10 years.

Can the same be said of Orton?

Maybe.

A long term focus is necessary in evaluating this, and I think people lose sight of that fact when getting the giggles over Denver and Orton.

I root for Kyle Orton. I like the Broncos.

I just think it is dumb to start the comparison crap like people do when the Vikings play the Packers with the whole Rodgers vs. Favre crap.

Sooooo, Orton is in his 5th year and is a finished product.

And Cutler is in his 4th, still needs to mature...got it.;)

BTW, just playing with you Bears fans out there.

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Epistaxis Newbie

Epistaxis

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Sooooo, Orton is in his 5th year and is a finished product.

And Cutler is in his 4th, still needs to mature...got it.;)

BTW, just playing with you Bears fans out there.

Good point, but keep in mind, I watched all of Kyle's career.

I'm a Big Ten football fan and a Bear fan.

Seen it all from him.

Could he get remarkably better? Maybe.

But when I'm talking finished product, I'm not talking about physical gifts.

Neither guy's arm will get stronger.

Neither guy's release will get quicker.

Neither guy's accuracy will improve much.

What WILL change is maturity.

In Kyle's defense, he has ALWAYS been a good decision maker.

Jay.....not so much.

What I am banking on, hoping for, wishing for is that Jay will mature in to a guy with off the chart physical gifts (something Kyle will NEVER have) PLUS an ability to make smart football decisions.

DO you catch my drift?

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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Good point, but keep in mind, I watched all of Kyle's career.

I'm a Big Ten football fan and a Bear fan.

Seen it all from him.

Could he get remarkably better? Maybe.

But when I'm talking finished product, I'm not talking about physical gifts.

Neither guy's arm will get stronger.

Neither guy's release will get quicker.

Neither guy's accuracy will improve much.

What WILL change is maturity.

In Kyle's defense, he has ALWAYS been a good decision maker.

Jay.....not so much.

What I am banking on, hoping for, wishing for is that Jay will mature in to a guy with off the chart physical gifts (something Kyle will NEVER have) PLUS an ability to make smart football decisions.

DO you catch my drift?

I hear ya. Just picking.

Kyle, like Brady, do not have the superb physical tools, but do make very good choices with the ball.

I have said it many times, that I would like to see Jay's brain catch up with his braun...and it may. Some folks like the Cutler/Favre type player, I like the smart QB's.

Carolina is stuck with a QB that is not a physical beast, and is making bad choices.

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Epistaxis Newbie

Epistaxis

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Seriously? That's all you have? You Bears fans are the biggest set of delusional homers I've ever seen. I wouldn't redo the Cutler trade in the opposite direction if you'd throw Forte in. Seriously.

Though Cutler might want a redo as he looks at the system he got himself into ( "This league is funny. It's all about timing," he said. "You could be one of the best players in the league but if you're not in the right system, you don't have the right people around you, there're a lot of different aspects that go into making a player or breaking a player. It's working for Kyle (Orton). It's working for Josh (McDaniels), and it's working for the Broncos. They've got a good thing going.").

The bottom line is, and you said yourself it will take years to analyze, is that the Bears actually ARE not set at the most important position for the next 7-10 years. Even worse, they've handcuffed their ability to improve at other positions.

Though I guess I sound as silly as a 49ers/Eagles/Cowboys fan warning Eagles/Cowboys/Bills fans about TO.

Oh, wait.....

Biggest set of delusional homers?

Hardly.

I would think I've been here long enough for most to know I'm the furthest thing from delusional. And I'm not even CLOSE to being a homer.

I call the Bears out all the time.

Try to call it like I see it.

And if you can't see the Cutler trade as a win-win (which is sort of the essence of a "trade" in the first place) then one is left to wonder who the real "homer" is in this discussion, and who is delusional (and most likely a hater).

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bigpro Newbie

bigpro

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A Hater a la fans of former TO-associated teams? Maybe. I stuck up for Cutler for a couple years (especially against all the Phillip Rivers stuff) and now see I was wrong and am glad to be rid of the guy, to tell you the truth. Does that make me a hater? Probably to some degree. I'd be more than happy to see him fail miserably. I'm just glad he didn't do to my team what I suspect he's doing to do to yours.

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