JR Addresses Accusations of Being Cheap

[bleys]

I'm not trying the case and I don't feel like doing the work....you have the link...read it and then listen to the interviews and quotes from the last 6 months....they are in direct contradiction. I've seen lesser cases settled out of court.

I wouldn't ask you for a motherf**kin' link if I had the motherf**kin' link... :lol:

you are reaching if all you can do is paraphrase what JR said..

[panthers55]

I find it quite ridiculous that people think buying a ticket, a season ticket or a PSL entitles them to anything other the opportunity to watch a football game. Look at how much it costs to buy whatever you have, then compare it to the annual revenue of the team. I wonder what percentage of the team you own with that investment...

You are a fan. You pay because you either like what the team stands for, or are a local person. You may have initially paid to help Carolina get an NFL team, so you would have the privilege of watching them year after year. That is all though. What product is put on the field is irrelevant. Shout all you want about some random statement that may or may not be in, that you found because of your undergraduate 1st year law qualification, but do you seriously think all the lawyers at this place would allow a document to go out that entitled you ANYTHING? Seriously?

I disagree and bet that most PSl owners would as well. Given that most of the folks arguing against the PSl position I espouse don't have a dime in it and don't have PSls, I can understand your point of view but I really doubt you can understand mine. Try this analogy, you buy a car and you expect it to be reliable and dependable and provide good service. You paid 6000 down and you have 1500 dollar payments a year that keep going up. Tell me how you feel if that car never really runs well and occassionally breaks down, loses all its value, and you can't get out of it what you paid for it. Then you find out the manufacturer lied about safety concerns and your investment plummets. When you complain to others who don't own a car, they tell you that there was no implied guaranteed it would run and owed you anything. You got a car and if you don't like it sell it. It wasn't an investment and you took your chances.

Make you feel any better??? Yeah thats how I feel.

[panthers55]

plenty of fans thought the team was going to compete.. we shed a few old motherfugers.. Matt Moore had a record worth betting on. it failed, people fail.. our team failed. Fox failed.. a long time ago actually.

now the team is re-energized... can't wait.

And some of us got ridiculed all last year when we said we would suck and be awful. Wonder how a no name like me knew more than the owner did at that point.

Just sayin..............

[bleys]

I disagree and bet that most PSl owners would as well. Given that most of the folks arguing against the PSl position I espouse don't have a dime in it and don't have PSls, I can understand your point of view but I really doubt you can understand mine. Try this analogy, you buy a car and you expect it to be reliable and dependable and provide good service. You paid 6000 down and you have 1500 dollar payments a year that keep going up. Tell me how you feel if that car never really runs well and occassionally breaks down, loses all its value, and you can't get out of it what you paid for it. Then you find out the manufacturer lied about safety concerns and your investment plummets. When you complain to others who don't own a car, they tell you that there was no implied guaranteed it would run and owed you anything. You got a car and if you don't like it sell it. It wasn't an investment and you took your chances.

Make you feel any better??? Yeah thats how I feel.

makes me feel indifferent.. about the comparison you're making.. as I stated, and others have stated, plenty of people thought dumping a few old players who retired that year or a year later wouldn't have damaged the team so..

I think a point could be made that you should be more mad at Fox than JR...

seriously, the point you're making is JR dumped a few players who retired that year, and Jake a year later... except Diggs, is he still playing?

[Urrymonster]

I disagree and bet that most PSl owners would as well. Given that most of the folks arguing against the PSl position I espouse don't have a dime in it and don't have PSls, I can understand your point of view but I really doubt you can understand mine. Try this analogy, you buy a car and you expect it to be reliable and dependable and provide good service. You paid 6000 down and you have 1500 dollar payments a year that keep going up. Tell me how you feel if that car never really runs well and occassionally breaks down, loses all its value, and you can't get out of it what you paid for it. Then you find out the manufacturer lied about safety concerns and your investment plummets. When you complain to others who don't own a car, they tell you that there was no implied guaranteed it would run and owed you anything. You got a car and if you don't like it sell it. It wasn't an investment and you took your chances.

Make you feel any better??? Yeah thats how I feel.

You aren't buying a car. You are buying a seat in a car designed for tens of thousands of people. The fact is, you are still able to watch the games and thus are provided exactly what you signed up for. Has the seat or viewing decreased in value?

There are no guarantees in sports and to expect any is naivety at an extreme level. JR took a risk with going young and it didn't work. Deal with it.

[panthers55]

You can just stop buying your season tickets. You lose your seat ... that's the consequence ... so your initial "investment" is gone. It is not a partnership, it is a contract. You willingly signed it, and there's not a "performance clause" in it for the team.

There is an implied performance agreement and that is to field the best team possible and do everything possible to bring home a championship. Look at richardson's last letter to PSl owners and it is right there in black and white. Most years he has done that but last year he didn't and it was painfully evident to everyone. And yes there is a partnership, he against said so. And no you can't just walk away without losing thousands of dollars so that is really a stupid argument you keep using.

[Brandon]

Why does anyone pay attention to Riddel, he's proven time and again to be blindly against the NFL owners...

[Panthers_Lover]

Tell you what I'm gonna do....I'm going to give you the opportunity to purchase the seat on my yacht for every weekend for the rest of your life and the cost of the ride is $blank amount....I can raise the cost of the ride as I see fit....so you purchase this opportunity....you go out the first couple years on this boat and enjoy the product....then I decide one year I'm going to remove the engine, air conditioning, boat captain...ect......you are forced to pay for the tickets or you will lose your seat right.....you can't sell your seat right because it's not worth crap.....so...you're stuck riding this broke down boat that doesn't look anything like the original boat that you purchased your rights to....DO YOU HAVE A LAWSUIT?

I'm not forced to pay for the tickets. I don't buy the tickets 'cause I don't want to sit on the now-broken-down boat anymore. I don't lose anything I bargained for , except a crappy seat.

If our contract doesn't say the boat will be in a particular "tip-top" shape forever, then I have no beef. I can walk away and I lose nothing.

I may be able to sell my seat right ... somebody may enjoy a broken down boat.

When I purchased my PSL, there wasn't an "original boat." We didn't have a TEAM yet ... we hadn't won, we hadn't lost. All we had was potential, and nobody guaranteed me anything about where that potential would go -- up or down or all around on the rollercoaster we've been on.

So no, I don't have a lawsuit in this instance or in the scenario you present.

[riddel]

makes me feel indifferent.. about the comparison you're making.. as I stated, and others have stated, plenty of people thought dumping a few old players who retired that year or a year later wouldn't have damaged the team so..

I think a point could be made that you should be more mad at Fox than JR...

seriously, the point you're making is JR dumped a few players who retired that year, and Jake a year later... except Diggs, is he still playing?

He dumped 8 starters....and plenty of backups....no contracts were extended to deserving players....a lame duck coach was left with a stripped down team....it was very clear what Richardson was doing during an uncapped year...he has stated over and over he had a plan and he was the lead for the CBA re-negotiations....do you really not believe he tanked 2010 in order to prepare for the new CBA? That really is not a question is it?

[riddel]

Why does anyone pay attention to Riddel, he's proven time and again to be blindly against the NFL owners...

I'm against Richardson 2010 actions.

[Brandon]

There is an implied performance agreement and that is to field the best team possible and do everything possible to bring home a championship. Look at richardson's last letter to PSl owners and it is right there in black and white. Most years he has done that but last year he didn't and it was painfully evident to everyone. And yes there is a partnership, he against said so. And no you can't just walk away without losing thousands of dollars so that is really a stupid argument you keep using.

He didn't intentionally make the team bad, he intentionally tried to help this team survive the lockout. Sure it hurt performance last year but with the dead weight gone and a young team we will be better off for years to come.

[panthers55]

Negative ghost rider.

He doesn't owe you anything more than he owes my dear Milli dog who is currently taking a nap.

You purchased the PSL's.

You accepted the terms of the contract.

You have the privaldge of getting tickets.

That's all he "owes" you, the right to get those tickets.

That said I'm glad people had the means to get in the PSL deal. It helped us have a team where in all honesty we probably would never have.

How much of a privledge is paying full price for tickets when the guy next to you got his from a scalper for 10 bucks? Yeah we accepted the contract while Richardson was touting he would bring us a champioship with in 10 years. We believed him. What we got was 4 winning seasons in 16 years.

So now we should believe him and be grateful that he did what he should have done before?? Sorry if I have trouble believing anything he says these days.

Honestly the last time it was really fun to go to a game was in 2008. Last time it was a privledge other envied, the playoff game in 2008. Yeah we see how that went. Since then, not so much to cheer about. I envy teams like NE and Pittsburgh who can go to a game and actually expect to win.

[bleys]

He dumped 8 starters....and plenty of backups....no contracts were extended to deserving players....a lame duck coach was left with a stripped down team....it was very clear what Richardson was doing during an uncapped year...he has stated over and over he had a plan and he was the lead for the CBA re-negotiations....do you really not believe he tanked 2010 in order to prepare for the new CBA? That really is not a question is it?

it's obvious he was preparing for the CBA.. any dumbass with half a brain would do the same. end of discussion.

points you are ignoring.. Fox was gone.. he was asked to leave or stay. he stayed for 1 more year..

our team had young guys who, even fans thought, could step up.. based on reports, Fox didn't feel like giving it his all and put players in his doghouse..

it's time to move on.. it was 1 year.. the curious case of sandy vagina must be cured eventually.

[Urrymonster]

There is an implied performance agreement and that is to field the best team possible and do everything possible to bring home a championship. Look at richardson's last letter to PSl owners and it is right there in black and white. Most years he has done that but last year he didn't and it was painfully evident to everyone. And yes there is a partnership, he against said so. And no you can't just walk away without losing thousands of dollars so that is really a stupid argument you keep using.

Implied performance agreement? Give me a break. How do you guarantee performance? How can you know JR didn't believe what he said about the youth?

"Your honor, I believe that JR, owner of the Caroline Panthers has forfeited his agreement in our PSI"

"How do you plead?"

"Not guilty your honor! I thought John Fox was holding back the youth of the team, the youth that will become the core of our team in 2-3 years and so I made decisions that allowed them to get the experience they needed. This allowed the franchise to start building through the draft and retain our core players, rather than see them walk away like Julius Peppers. I felt we could still compete with our youth, evidently I was wrong."