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Matt Maiocco has us taking Newton # 1 overall


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#271 rayzor

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:29 PM

It wouldn't have mattered how many quarterbacks Gruden picked or didn't pick. His issue was that he was a jerk to them, was constantly critical and never inspired confidence. Seemed all of them disliked him. He changed quarterbacks like he did his socks. In fact, Jake Plummer chose to retire instead of play for him.

It isn't how many QBs you have but what you do with the ones you have.

agreed, but i would add to that last sentence, "...and the guys you have coaching them."

pretty well regarded, including by mr. scot, that gruden was a coach that didn't handle his players very well and wasn't well liked.

#272 rayzor

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:37 PM

the difference is, if you are hurney and you still believe in clausen, which he does, I think you bring in someone like Moore and someone like Volek and you have a 3 way competition and let it shake itself out.

you go this route specifically expecting the older vet to win in the short term but in the next couple seasons to give way to either your younger FA or Clausen. in fact, it is possible your younger FA even wins out, and that's okay too. but you bring in the older, seasoned veteran that you feel you can trust because he's been around forever or whatever. and btw on Volek specifically, he may not have won a ton of games in Tenn. but he did look pretty good at times.

I don't think that you go into next season armed with just Volek and Clausen or anything like that. I agree you want to bring in a younger FA too, if you don't draft one anyway.

as i've said before, the problem with this is, what if the younger guy(s) you have waiting behind the stopgap doesn't turn into the franchise guy you hoped he would. only way to know for sure is if you get him in the game and find out and then how many games/years do you give him to find out? and then, if he doesn't, then what do you do? go out and try to find another young guy or draft another guy and then get another stop gap to start for another couple years and go through the whole thing again?

for a team wanting to find it's franchise QB, this isn't a very good plan.

find a guy that can start early on or at least looks like he can grow and keep him in there. a old stop gap guy won't help long term, imo.

#273 Snake

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:39 PM

as i've said before, the problem with this is, what if the younger guy(s) you have waiting behind the stopgap doesn't turn into the franchise guy you hoped he would. only way to know for sure is if you get him in the game and find out and then how many games/years do you give him to find out? and then, if he doesn't, then what do you do? go out and try to find another young guy or draft another guy and then get another stop gap to start for another couple years and go through the whole thing again?

for a team wanting to find it's franchise QB, this isn't a very good plan.

find a guy that can start early on or at least looks like he can grow and keep him in there. a old stop gap guy won't help long term, imo.



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#274 mav1234

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:53 PM

as i've said before, the problem with this is, what if the younger guy(s) you have waiting behind the stopgap doesn't turn into the franchise guy you hoped he would. only way to know for sure is if you get him in the game and find out and then how many games/years do you give him to find out? and then, if he doesn't, then what do you do? go out and try to find another young guy or draft another guy and then get another stop gap to start for another couple years and go through the whole thing again?

for a team wanting to find it's franchise QB, this isn't a very good plan.

find a guy that can start early on or at least looks like he can grow and keep him in there. a old stop gap guy won't help long term, imo.


Not all franchise QBs played their first year, yet the team didn't decide since they hadn't seen them play they needed to go out and keep blowing draft picks on QBs. So there must be some way that teams use to decide if a player is developing for the future outside of playing them...

Obviously if you sign a young FA or draft a QB you expect them to be able to grow into the starter, but you need to have a secondary plan in case THIS YEAR they are unable to do what you want.

The problem with your logic is that no matter how you handle your future franchise quaterback's first few years, it's a risk and you may need to move on to another prospect. Whether you play them two years or they can't win their job in the first two years, if they haven't done poo in their third year you HAVE to consider moving on either way.

What you seem to be missing is the idea of competition in camp. The "Volek Figure" is there effectively as a fallback; if the others can't improve you know by his time in the league (and in our coaches cases working with him in the past) what he should be capable of providing. Competition is there to elevate all of those participating. It may just be your youngest guy comes to the top, perhaps not in his first year but perhaps in his second or third; but it may be you need to bring in new competition at the position.

#275 rayzor

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 02:03 PM

Not all franchise QBs played their first year, yet the team didn't decide since they hadn't seen them play they needed to go out and keep blowing draft picks on QBs. So there must be some way that teams use to decide if a player is developing for the future outside of playing them...

most QBs, esp. recently, have been guys that get started in their first year. it's done because thats the best way. only way to really find out if he is ready to start is by letting him start. there is no other way.

Obviously if you sign a young FA or draft a QB you expect them to be able to grow into the starter, but you need to have a secondary plan in case THIS YEAR they are unable to do what you want.

why wouldn't the secondary plan be another young QB who, although they might be a long shot, still has the potential to be the long term guy?

The problem with your logic is that no matter how you handle your future franchise quaterback's first few years, it's a risk and you may need to move on to another prospect. Whether you play them two years or they can't win their job in the first two years, if they haven't done poo in their third year you HAVE to consider moving on either way.

not a fail free plan for sure, but still better and a much quicker way of finding your franchise QB than the stop gap way.

What you seem to be missing is the idea of competition in camp. The "Volek Figure" is there effectively as a fallback; if the others can't improve you know by his time in the league (and in our coaches cases working with him in the past) what he should be capable of providing. Competition is there to elevate all of those participating. It may just be your youngest guy comes to the top, perhaps not in his first year but perhaps in his second or third; but it may be you need to bring in new competition at the position.

what you see as a fallback is what i see as a crutch.

competition should be for the long term job.... not just this year. you get the team no closer to finding the long term answer than you were before by going after an old guy.

going after an old guy is a path that john fox would have taken because he didn't trust the youth. we should have kept him around if we were going to address the QB situation the same way.

it's time to start thinking outside the fox shaped box and start getting aggressive about finding the franchise QB.

#276 kanniiee

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:30 AM

I'd be okay with this. I'd be okay with Newton, Fairley, or Green with our first pick


Agreed


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