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2014 Hall of Fame Thread

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#1 c0r

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:57 PM

Who do you think gets in?

 

Here's my ballot:

 

Bonds

Clemens

Schilling

Frank Thomas

Piazza

Maddux

McGwire



#2 Joscott

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:35 AM

It'll be a cold day in hell, or an extremely weak class before Bonds, Clemens and McGwire get in. The media, aka the voters, hate those guys not to mention the drug history.

Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Biggio and Piazza have the best shot.

#3 c0r

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:15 AM

Oh I know. Guys I listed aren't my predictions.

 

They're my 'if I had a vote'.

 

My prediction is Maddux, Glavine, Thomas.

 

Biggio maybe - I don't really think he's a HOFer though.



#4 Goondal

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:30 PM

Maddux and Glavine are getting in this time.  Thomas and Biggio are getting in at some point, I hope it is this year.  I am going to say yes for both this time around but would not be surprised if either waits.

 

Shilling will get in at some point, but not for a few years.

 

Bonds should be in but it will not happen anytime soon.  At this point I would say never, but fifteen years is a long time.  Who knows how feelings have chanced by the latter part of the 2020s.



#5 Zaximus

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:21 AM

Oh I know. Guys I listed aren't my predictions.

 

They're my 'if I had a vote'.

 

My prediction is Maddux, Glavine, Thomas.

 

Biggio maybe - I don't really think he's a HOFer though.

 

What?  The guy has over 3,000 hits, 400 sbs, 4 gold gloves, 7 all-star appearances, top-10 MVP vote getter 3 times, close to 1200 rbi and almost 300 homers.  He was a 5 tool player and stayed with his team the whole time.  In a era of steroids he did his own thing and was great at it.   He played catcher for like 5 years and then played second base and center field.  11 times he logged 150 games or more in a season.  

 

So I'd say

 

Maddux, Glavine, Biggio, Thomas definitely.

 

I'm not sure about Piazza, he was the best offensive catcher ever but almost the worst defensive and the PED rumors might hurt him a bit, not sure.

 

Bonds will never get in I don't think.  If you let him in, then McGwuire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc will need to be let in.



#6 CarolinaSock

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:27 PM

Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are the only one's in this year. Very happy my man Thomas made it in first ballot but they drastically need to do something about the voting because there is and will always be a drastic backlog they way these idiots vote.



#7 Kevin Greene

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:50 PM

If Pete Rose isn't in because he bet on games he managed, then the roiding bastards who actually changed game outcomes never should get in.



#8 Goondal

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:07 PM

I just saw that Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez are on next year's ballot.  Both should be 1st ballot guys.

 

Biggio should be a lock in year three.



#9 Manos

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:48 AM

Bonds will never get in I don't think. If you let him in, then McGwuire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc will need to be let in.


Personally I don't see the logic in that statement. Bonds is in a completely different class than those other guys. Not only in terms of numbers and how feared he was as a hitter but in terms of how great a player he was before any of the ped stuff became rumored to happen.

I am by no means a huge baseball fan so my opinion is basically meaningless but if Bonds(and Clemons to a lesser extent) don't make the hall at some point then the whole thing is a joke and should just be done away with.

Now will it happen? Probably not because the baseball writers are a bunch of moralizing idiots who use the hall as their way of getting vengeance on players they personally disliked regardless of the players greatness.

Also Pete Rose should be in the hall but that's a mlb thing not just a writers thing so I won't harp on it.

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#10 Zaximus

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 01:05 PM

Personally I don't see the logic in that statement. Bonds is in a completely different class than those other guys. Not only in terms of numbers and how feared he was as a hitter but in terms of how great a player he was before any of the ped stuff became rumored to happen.

I am by no means a huge baseball fan so my opinion is basically meaningless but if Bonds(and Clemons to a lesser extent) don't make the hall at some point then the whole thing is a joke and should just be done away with.

Now will it happen? Probably not because the baseball writers are a bunch of moralizing idiots who use the hall as their way of getting vengeance on players they personally disliked regardless of the players greatness.

Also Pete Rose should be in the hall but that's a mlb thing not just a writers thing so I won't harp on it.

Sent from my XT907 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

 

There is a common denominator with Bonds and them, the PED thing or the suspicion.  The fact Bonds cheated when he didn't even need to makes an even more compelling reason to keep him out lol.

 

If the writers keep Sosa and McGwire out then that voids your theory that they vote against people for vengeance because both those guys and Palmeiro were loved during their careers.  

 

But like you said, Rose should be in so the Hall has been kind of a joke.  From what I've read the Rose thing seems to be a Bud Selig thing so maybe once he's out the ban can be lifted.   



#11 Goondal

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

I think the biggest joke of the whole thing is how people pick and choose for themselves when nobody knows.  For example, the consensus is that Frank Thomas is clean.  Then you have Cal Ripken Jr.  Another guy just assumed clean.  Why is it assumed that someone that played in that many consecutive games did not use some something at some point.  I am in no way saying that either of these did use, but how do we know?  I remember people saying that A-Rod would pass Bonds and make the record clean again, which did not work out too well.  The fact is, if there is no test, we do not know, it is all speculation.

 

Then there is the way that it was all okay and accepted in the game until suddenly it was not.  Baseball had no penalties in place until 2005.  Punishing players for behavior in the 90s for something that had no consequence until 2005 is akin to lowering the speed limit on the Interstate to 50mph and then giving out tickets to people for the speeds they were going a year ago.

 

In my mind the voters need to have some sort of set criteria when judging this era.  Several examples:

 

1) Judge the players on their merits and how they compare to the rest of their era, just as we do with every era

2) Do not vote for anybody from the era, period

3) Punish those that tested positive '05 or later and/or have admitted to usage ('03 test should not be used in this regard as it was supposed to be confidential and only some names were leaked)

 

Personally, I would go with #3, but I can respect anybody that goes with either of these routes.  I do not at all respect a voter that picks and chooses which ones to hold accountable because they assume a person did/did not use.

 

Anyway, I view Palmiero completely differently than the rest of his ilk.  Testing started in '05, he kept using and tested positive.  None of the others fall into that category.



#12 CarolinaSock

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:02 AM

I can speak for Thomas at least seeing as how I am a White Sox fan. Thomas was massive his entire career. He came in at 6'5 245 as a rookie, so he didn't go from a skinny guy in his 20s to muscle bound hulk in his 30s like some of his peers. He was speaking out against PEDs years before baseball even thought about doing something about it and was the only player to agree to be interviewed for the Mitchell report. Now not saying these writers should be judging so many of these guys with nothing but rumors as evidence, but I think being so proactive is what got Thomas in ahead of other guys from the same era.



#13 Goondal

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 11:01 AM

I agree that it got him ahead, but I do not believe it should.  What he said about it should have nothing to do with it.  Palmeiro was pretty definitive himself in front of Congress, only to test positive the following season.

 

Also, there are plenty of athletes who have been caught using PEDs whose body had not undergone some amazing change, so I never bought that argument (about anybody) that we can just look at their body and know nothing is different.

 

The consistent body type argument is less impressive than the consistent performance argument, which is something that could be used for David Ortiz.  His performance since becoming a full time starter has been incredibly consistent.  Of course he was one of the names that was leaked from the confidential '03 test so we have to assume he used something at some point.  The fact is, there is no way to know.  Not by looking at stats.  Not by looking at body type.  Unless we have a positive test or an admission, we are just guessing.




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