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If Kenjon Barner shows competence, is Deangelo gone on June 1?

May 07 2013 08:15 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
Kenjon Barner is a wiry 5'9 and 196 which is a good contrast to Stewart. His running style is more like Deangelo's than Jonathan, relying more on being elusive than powering through the defense.

The biggest knocks on Barner coming out was his propensity to run high and cut to the outside too much instead of taking it between the tackles.

Fast Forward to May practices outside of Bank of America Stadium.

Jim Skipper is once again the running backs coach. If he sees progress with Barner will that push the Deangelo cap issue to the forefront? How much progress will need to be seen?

For instance, lets say they coach him into running lower relatively easily. This shows real promise that he will improve as a prospect throughout camp. Some running backs NEVER learn to run lower (Eric Shelton).

So if he shows at least some real progress in just a few weeks, would that be enough to cut Deangelo Williams and save millions?

Do you think the friendship between Jim Skipper and Deangelo Williams effects his judgement or will Gettleman not allow personal feelings to be involved?

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114 Comments

:: before

Barner isn't good enough right now to supplant Williams. Personally though I think Stewart and Tolbert are good enough to let DWill walk and just let Barner have a couple carries a game.

 

Eventually Stewart is going to be the soul #1 RB and I think his time is now. I love Deangelo, he's been one of my favorite guys but the money we could get by cutting him could land us a decent lineman so Cam doesn't get destroyed. Or Dallas Clark etc...

 

I don't think we should let DWill walk because of declining ability. I don't he's changed much since 2008, the speed is still there. We just had garbage playcalling and a offensive line that was a joke compared to the 08-09 group. He's still a very dangerous weapon, it's just a numbers game.

Barner isn't good enough right now to supplant Williams. Personally thought I think Stewart and Tolbert are good enough to let DWill walk and just let Barner have a couple carries a game.

Eventually Stewart is going to be the soul #1 RB and I think his time is now. I love Deangelo, he's been one of my favorite guys but the money we could get by cutting him could land us a decent lineman so Cam doesn't get destroyed. Or Dallas Clark etc...


You haven't seen him yet run....

Nor have you seen the 30 yr old version of Williams

If Williams is a lesser version of what we saw last year in non Saints games....can anyone legitimately say he we shouldn't just cut him?

If we can't trade him for anything decent or save enough money by cutting him, I have no issue keeping him around.  Maybe cut lose with him in 2014.  

If we can't trade him for anything decent or save enough money by cutting him, I have no issue keeping him around. Maybe cut lose with him in 2014.


We can generate millions of dollars of cap space we can use this season

We can generate millions of dollars of cap space we can use this season

 

Its more cost efficient imo to dump him next year from my perspective.  Also, we have enough cap to make a signing or two unless there's someone they're targeting that will require a lot of room...which hasn't been Gettleman's mantra so far.    

You haven't seen him yet run....

Nor have you seen the 30 yr old version of Williams

If Williams is a lesser version of what we saw last year in non Saints games....can anyone legitimately say he we shouldn't just cut him?

 

It's hard to say that because it's not like any of our RB's had a great year last year. Cam also takes carries away from those guys.

 

WIlliams has been sharing the load for a while now and has had some rest here and there with IR. I don't buy the fact that he just turned 30 means he suddenly became a scrub RB that no one wants. He's not wanted because he costs too much, not because he's not good. I'm not a professional scout and I'm not claiming I know for a fact that Williams is declining or not but judging from the eye test he doesn't look that much different. He still has some good years in him.

Then why for the past 2 years do they think Stewart should see the field more than Williams?


Not that i really disagree with you but they also thought it was a good idea to call a timeout so the saints could kick a field goal and to punt to atlanta...
Someone help me out..

I thought cutting DeAngelo did nothing in terms of relieving cap this year.

Its more cost efficient imo to dump him next year from my perspective. Also, we have enough cap to make a signing or two unless there's someone they're targeting that will require a lot of room...which hasn't been Gettleman's mantra so far.


Yes....but in the NFL you can't part with guys only on the year that is most ideal. If a legit CB, S, or RG could be brought in to start...I'd take that this year.

We got enough other guys to worry about axing next offseason
I'm ready for Hangman, Armanti and Jimmy to be gone this year. It'd be kind of like getting a wart removed.

Unless Barner is the reincarnation of Priest Holmes, I really don't see where his success will have anything to do with Deangelo's status.  Barner is a scatback.  If anything, I see Tolbert's play effecting a June 1st cut of D-Will more than anything. D-Wills Status is gonna come down to math, and math alone.

 

On an off note, The Saints kept the PT Cruiser and Sproles, right along with Ingram.  They finally let go of Ivory recently, and probably wouldn't have even done that if they hadn't received good compensation. Moreover, the Giants kept a solid WR stable for a while during those championship runs.  D-Will's contract was just too reckless, and if G-man can find a way to jettison D-will without great repercussions, then D-Will will be gone.  Keep the trade deadline in mind this year also. Who knows? Somebody could be in a desperate situation.

I'm surprised no one mentioned d-will restructuring. His entire career has been here, he is very close to a few players on the team and he probably wouldn't up and move to a new city to play for only 2-3 years until he retires.

Gettlemen seems pretty good with contract renegotiation. Why not redo his contract by cutting all his base salary and only paying his 3.5 million signing bonus each year? He can retire a panther after 2015.
RB's are easy to replace. Unless he is willing to take a big pay cut I'd say goodbye and beef up the right side of the o-line with the savings.

I'm surprised no one mentioned d-will restructuring. His entire career has been here, he is very close to a few players on the team and he probably wouldn't up and move to a new city to play for only 2-3 years until he retires.

Gettlemen seems pretty good with contract renegotiation. Why not redo his contract by cutting all his base salary and only paying his 3.5 million signing bonus each year? He can retire a panther after 2015.

 

i would be surprised if this wasn't already in the works and no one knows about it.

 

stewart's extension was well underway after the 2011 season ended without so much as a peep being said until it was finalized before the new season started.

i would be surprised if this wasn't already in the works and no one knows about it.

stewart's extension was well underway after the 2011 season ended without so much as a peep being said until it was finalized before the new season started.

I agree. And it would make a lot more sense than cutting him because there's no dead money.
Big DeAngelo fan, but that contract has to go. I'm completely comfortable going into the season with Stewart, Tolbert, and Barner. One all-around back, one bruiser, and one blazer. Sounds good to me!

How exactly would Barner show enough promise to replace our number 1 back last year running around in shorts and a t-shirt.  If we release Williams it will be based on the cap saving we realize without much concern for whether barner is going to replace him. I remember when everyone was so high on Goodson and he showed so much promise until they put on the pads and he showed he couldn't hold onto the ball.  He went from the next greatest thing to a bench warmer because anyone can look good in underwear but it can be very different when the pads go on.  

I agree. And it would make a lot more sense than cutting him because there's no dead money.


It doesn't work that way. Dead money is dead money whether you cut him or trade him. Trade partners do not pick up unallocated bonus charges.

People worry too much about the dead money. It's already paid, nobody can give it back to us, and there is no way for it to just go away. So forget about it. Once we get past June 1st. we can cut DWill and save a lot of money for this and future years. That's all that matters.

Unless of course we think he is worth his salary, and personally, I just don't see it

It doesn't work that way. Dead money is dead money whether you cut him or trade him. Trade partners do not pick up unallocated bonus charges.

People worry too much about the dead money. It's already paid, nobody can give it back to us, and there is no way for it to just go away. So forget about it. Once we get past June 1st. we can cut DWill and save a lot of money for this and future years. That's all that matters.

Unless of course we think he is worth his salary, and personally, I just don't see it


You clearly didn't read my post. I wasn't advocating trading him.

You clearly didn't read my post. I wasn't advocating trading him.


My apologies. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

The point remains though that no matter what we do with him (cut, trade, renegotiate), the dead money remains with us.

My apologies. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

The point remains though that no matter what we do with him (cut, trade, renegotiate), the dead money remains with us.

Not if he takes an outright pay cut. Reduce his base salary to zero and keep only his signing bonus of 3.5 mil a year. I think he's worth that.

Not if he takes an outright pay cut. Reduce his base salary to zero and keep only his signing bonus of 3.5 mil a year. I think he's worth that.


Not quite. When we speak about dead money, if refers to money we have already paid him (in this case his signing bonus) that is allocated over the length of the contract.

DWill has 9.6 million in his pocket that has not yet hit our cap. It is going to hit our cap either at a rate of 3.2 million a year for the next 3 years, unless we trade/cut/renegotiate his deal, in which case all 9.6 hits our cap immediately.

The exception is that the 9.6 can be divided up over 2 years if the player is cut following June 1st.

What you are proposing above is that DWill plays for free. That's not going to happen. No one would work for free this year because their boss overpaid them the last 2 years. Not gonna happen.

Not quite. When we speak about dead money, if refers to money we have already paid him (in this case his signing bonus) that is allocated over the length of the contract.

DWill has 9.6 million in his pocket that has not yet hit our cap. It is going to hit our cap either at a rate of 3.2 million a year for the next 3 years, unless we trade/cut/renegotiate his deal, in which case all 9.6 hits our cap immediately.

The exception is that the 9.6 can be divided up over 2 years if the player is cut following June 1st.

What you are proposing above is that DWill plays for free. That's not going to happen. No one would work for free this year because their boss overpaid them the last 2 years. Not gonna happen.

What? 3.5 million a year does not equal zero.

Cut his base pay to zero and leave his guaranteed money. His guaranteed money each year is 3.5. His base is 4.75,5.75&6.75, respectively.
There's no dead money because he's not cut and is still getting paid his full guaranteed salary. He won't get more elsewhere, he wouldn't have to relocate and be can continue playing for the team he loves. It's a win-win.

What? 3.5 million a year does not equal zero.

Cut his base pay to zero and leave his guaranteed money. His guaranteed money each year is 3.5. His base is 4.75,5.75&6.75, respectively.
There's no dead money because he's not cut and is still getting paid his full guaranteed salary. He won't get more elsewhere, he wouldn't have to relocate and be can continue playing for the team he loves. It's a win-win.


You are missing the point. DWill has no guaranteed money left on his deal. Zero.

The 3.2 million a year for the next 3 years was paid to him in a lump sum 2 years ago when he signed his deal.

If we cut his base pay to zero, his earnings this year are zero.
Again I'm not talking about renegotiating, I'm talking about a paycut. Yes, he'd make the 9.75 mil remaining guaranteed regardless, but I don't think it's all about the money for some players. He may demand a 1 mil per year base pay but that wouldn't ensure he stays on the team.