kungfoodude

Holy poo. I am actually disappointed at the caliber of this thread knowing that.

The advanced stats confirm this is the worst year of his career. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HornJa00.htm

We only have two capable guys of both getting open and catching the ball regularly, that's Johnson and AT. Hopefully Coker can become a third.

I will take a look at 2003 to 2023 and see the probability of having a winning record in the next two seasons after finishing .300 or less. Probably will take a little while to compile.

It's a 2 year fix if you have an average NFL roster. It's not a 2 year fix if you have a bottom 5 NFL roster. As I said, those type of turnarounds are not at all common.

Well he almost immediately allowed a sack, so I don't think your interest is going to be very high for very long.

You don't draft developmental guys in the first or second round unless you are a bad franchise. We consistently do this. Shocker of all shockers, it almost never works out. This is what happened to Mingo and is likely to happen to XL. Ever wonder why we can't develop these guys? Probably because we have the same level of terrible decision making as overdrafting guys like those in the first place that hiring coaches. Also, name some guys in the last decade that didn't develop here and then went elsewhere to develop? It isn't just us that can't do it. We choose the wrong prospects many more times than we don't.

Yes, the NFL is built for parity. No doubt about it. So how do teams end up being terrible for years? By doing what we have from 2018 onward. It is exceedingly rare what we did, which was take a roster from 2017 and basically completely dismantled it in a couple of years. Then further continued to make it progressively worse and stripped of talent as the years went by. This isn't a common occurrence. We are embarking on a road not often traveled because typically to start it as a FO or coach is basically guaranteed to be gone whenever it completes. That's literally what happened here. Rhule and then Fitterer tried to desconstruct this roster further and further and succeeded masterfully. But neither had the vision to construct a new one, nor the intelligence to do so. So now we just sit with a roster of jouneymen, busts and borderline NFL players. What do you propose? Cut them all and sign/draft 20 in 2025 and another 20 in 2026? Good luck winning with that. This is why I am saying and have been saying this. There is no quick fix. It takes years of patience and competence to fix. Neither of those are in our organization.

Jones would need to be on a Baker/Darnold size "reclamation" price. Something in the $5-7 mil range at most.

Gotta be a @CamWhoaaaCam sock account.

I looked at the 1st through 3rd round WR's. There were 16 taken overall, three have missed all games due to injury. Of the remaining 13, XL is ranked 10th in PFF ratings of the group(90th in the NFL overall). He is the second lowest rated(non-injured) 1st round WR behind Rome Odunze(95th rated in the NFL overall). Five receivers taken in the 2nd or 3rd round are higher rated PFF players. So he is basically playing like a 3rd round pick.

Hence why so many of us did not want to see Morgan installed as GM. He was Fitterer's assistant GM. Is anyone really buying that for some reason he disagreed with every lightspeed stupid move Fitterer made? Or is it just much more likely that they largely agreed on the bulk of these decisions? So, until we get real change in that FO, the expectations are going to remain extremely low.

At this point you throw all that out and take BPA. What we sorely need are actual NFL starting caliber players. There are extremely few of those on the roster and less than 5 that will likely be here in two seasons. Just start building with players. Not dumb reaches, actual players. If it fills a critical need, fine. If not, no big deal. Just get some actual talent on the roster for a change. If we start there, a couple of drafts from now we might have the luxury of trying to fill actual roster needs.

It was less about the QB than the thought that we just knew better than anyone. We could have waited and another WR(most likely better) would have easily dropped in our lap in the 2nd. Nope. Instead we trade to get XL because "he's our guy." Dumb. Classic Fitterer BS. You could have fixed an obvious hole in the offense in round two and drafted Zach Frazier, a center for your bright shiny new QB for the next decade plus. Nope. RB that might not even play in 2024. Dumb. Classic Fitterer BS. We can keep going down the list and it's just gonna get worse. A bunch of guys that aren't ready to play. Classic Fitterer.

I am not being dramatic. Name one instance of a worst to first in the last 20 years with a roster as bad as this. I don't think you realize or accept how bad this roster is.

We will run into at least one more "they played terrible" and "we played great" game like the Raiders. It's just inevitable.

This has zero to do with Bryce Young. It's about drafting a guy that needed to be on the bench for a couple of seasons to figure this poo out when you could have gotten an NFL ready player from day one. We do this poo all the fuging time and it's infuriating. If the answer to "is he ready to play now" is "no", that is not a top 3 round pick player. That's a fuging day three player.

No, I thought we were going to maybe draft intelligently for once and actually get people that, I don't know, can play professional football. Not a bunch of, as some one said earlier, scratch off tickets in the hope we get that 1st round caliber player at some future date. Much like anyone else who plays scratch offs, you end up mainly with UDFA caliber players, which is exactly what we have drafted since Tepper took over.

It isn't a two year process from where we have torn down to. That's the problem. We could fuging destroy the next two drafts and free agency periods and we might improve to maybe .500 football. This is literally why I said we should have never torn down this franchise. Now you have to completely build culture and you have to replace about 85% of the roster with NFL capable players. That is NOT a 2 year building process. It's years. YEARS.

You are literally describing a 7th round special teams guy, not a 2nd rounder. That's the problem. Sure, if he was actually a sure handed WR. The truth is that he isn't that yet. Remember, he isn't some 21 year old. He's about half a year younger than TMJ. We can't afford for him to take 3-4 years to figure this out. If you wanted a QB's best friend and just HAD to trade up, go get a Brian Thomas. That's an effective and pro ready WR. Or how about a guy that went after XL? McConkley who consistently is able to get open and even catch the ball with his actual hands!!!

It IS about winning. It's not about drafting guys that have low chances of panning out because they need a bunch of development or for things to just go right. This is where we fail all the time as an organization under Tepper. Thinking we are smarter than everyone else when 95+% of the time we are substantially dumber than anyone else. This entire 2024 draft reeks of this hubris.

There are always the "woulda/coulda" kind of moves that get a lot of teams, but we fuging whiff on decisions 70% of the retards in this message board would get right. It's insane.

I initially said 3-5 wins and adjusted up to 4-6 after the Raiders. Turns out, they are just also quite bad. I still think we win 3. We will win one late to drop us two spots in the draft.

How were they about helping him? XL isn't a ready to play guy. He's a project. Brooks was always going to miss significant time. Another long term prospect. The problem is that we have no idea about how to build a success roster nor evaluate talent. That much is painfully obvious. Like I said, that 2024 draft was a Fitterer classic, high ceiling, immensely low floor guys.