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Oh, well I'm not. Red Rifle Cincy Dalton isn't the dude playing football today. What ranking metric is that based on?

you are referencing imaginary games that doesn't exist. Why not talk about the last NFL start Dalton played prior to Seattle....or the last 3 prior to the Seattle games. Recent real football by Dalton. He was worse than Bryce Young's average in a couple of those.

all we know factually, is every play that happened is erased and everything would be totally different. So maybe Dalton is even worse than Bryce. Maybe he is better. If you look at his last 4 NFL starts....he certainly was worse than average Bryce play in a couple of those.

sure. I acknowledge we had a rookie making rookie mistakes. You fail to acknowledge a pushing 40 Dalton however paired up in this trainwreck wasn't going to yield significantly better results. good results. And Dalton didn't even win his game vs a wrecked Seattle D. Andy Dalton couldn't even find a way for his team to beat the Carolina freaking Panthers in 2022. A team with an interim HC, that couldn't score, playing like it was 1970. And Andy Dalton had REAL weapons on the field at his disposal. All Dalton had to do was score more than 10 points. He couldn't pull that off. I probably got as little faith in Bryce as anyone here. But I'm not willing to go this Andy Dalton route. Maybe he wins 4ish here. But he wasn't doing much here. Dalton isn't Cincy Dalton.

how do you know we would have won simply by inserting Dalton. Literally everything that did happen, would no longer exist. Everything changes. Different game plans, games, literally everything that happened no longer exists. Dalton didn't even win the Seattle game. and again, 6-7 wins is where Dalton was when he played on a much better Cowboys team and Saints team. They had better OLs, better skill talent and better offensive playcalling. So yeah, Dalton wasn't reaching THAT with the 2024 Panthers that was bad everywhere. Dalton would have won games where opponents just had bad days. Who knows when or where those were coming. We were poorly coached with bad talent overall. Dalton wasn't overcoming that. Which is largely how Bryce got his. We beat Atlanta not scoring a TD. And the Texans laid an egg. I'll concede we probably win more games than 2 if Dalton could of stayed healthy. But I can't really go past about 4ish.

to me those are basically the same thing. Baker just went back to being Baker. Carolina was the anomaly for him.

That's what I hope. I think based on the little we have seen from Canales....a young Jake Delhomme is a better pairing for his O than what Bryce brings. Which is why Baker rebounded with him. Seattle, Bucs. All about the type throws Leggette is a fix for. It's chunk plays.

I have said the same thing. Agree.

Dalton is also pushing 40 year of age and isn't Tom Brady. So yeah, they aren't the same QB. Bryce is quicker at this point and we saw Bryce's tiny little self escape a lot. Dalton took 3 sacks in the one game he played. And was frankly lucky it was so few. again, Dalton on MUCH better teams compared to the 2024 Panthers was about a 6-7 win QB. So again, I don't think Dalton is achieving that same bar with the 2024 Panthers. Scheme sucked, OL sucked, skill players were weak.

Dalton wouldn't survive that many games. Bryce saved himself often and weekly with legs. I think a lot of those games, people would have taken an even bigger issue with our OL because Dalton of been rocked on plays Bryce wasn't. I mean, Bryce goes down easy when you get your hand on them. But Dalton wouldn't of escaped as much. 5-7 is too high with our talent last year. 5-7 was basically the Dalton range on better Cowboy, Saints teams when he played for them. And they easily had better skill talent, scheme and OL play than the 24 Panthers.

See, I think Leggette is better suited to play w/ a Rattler. Rattler gambles, has an arm and plays aggressive. Bryce wants players to be Bama college open or he is going safe more often than not. Leggette is a let me try to make a play WR.

maybe quietly in season? Hard to really axe them after the draft or leading up to it (time). I mean, that's like saying we things these guys really suck...but we let them formulate our 2024 draft anyway right before we fired them.

Once Tepper figures out the huddle could just run a poll on what to do, he saves money, and essentially would yield the same results.....we all could be part of the team!!

yep, and Teddy didn't have CMC, he had Mike Davis. Reality is, Mike Davis, Teddy Bridgwater, Robbie Anderson, Curtis Samuel all had career years in Joe Brady's work in progress O. None ever to really be talked about again in a positive light. But Joe Brady was labeled the problem. Not Matt Rhule lol. Maybe they simply should of stayed away from Sam Darnold. Hell, I think Joe Brady actually would do well with Bryce Young. Better than Frank. Probably better than this current group. Joe Brady has shown he gets the basics of a check down QB. Just needed to figure out the redzone. And Brady looked pretty good last year helping the Bills turn it around.

Dalton doesn't get us 5-7 wins. Seattle had the 30th ranked defense. And it took Dalton a career high in pass attempts to get the offense to basically reach NFL average for a day. And if the Seattle D was better, they would have gotten home a lot more and not been a fraction of a second late coming for him all game. I don't think Bryce has the tools to be a good NFL QB. He will never deliever what a #1 overall should. And I think, we will move on from him. But some have also chosen to overrate Dalton and what he could of done for us last year. He would have been destroyed last year.

I don't think Dalton survives as the starting QB. I mean, if you really look at the Seattle game... he was a fraction of a second from getting smashed pretty much the entire game and Seattle had a weaker D. And it took a career high in attempts for Dalton to make us look respectable vs a meah D. A better D, given those pass attempts required, feasts on Dalton. I mean, you turned injuries off he has a better season and record. Bryce's escapability and youth helped him survive that season. Dalton ain't got it at his current age. I think if Dalton played and largely stayed on the field. Frank is still the HC.

Probably just a remake but we were promised some new take/spin and we have our hopes tied to some big exciting twist we were promised

yeah, I didn't get where that hype was coming from. Leggette had a total of -9 rush yards lol.

maybe. but everything is handpicked by him. all the soccer coaches he fired. all the football coaches he fired (minus Ron). GMs. all the front office folks. the plans he makes to build facilities and then not. Tepper quickly parts with all his handpicked people when they don't produce. and it's not like Bryce is some lab built QB that you can sort of go back and convince yourself on and blame everyone else around him for why it doesn't work.

Charlotte FC on 3rd HC Panther on 4th HC. 3rd GM. 5th starting QB entering a season. parted with CMC, Burns, DJ Moore and every big name/star Carolina drafted Tons of shakeup in his front office and corporate staff. The fans will show more patience with Bryce than Tepper based on what we know of Tepper IMO.

David Tepper is not a patient man. He is a results now guy. And Tepper IMO is clearly influenced by the outside world. If Bryce continues to be bad, his team continues to be bad, the outside world continues to rub it in his face and let him know......he is going to make moves. Ego. He has proven that over and over again in just about all aspects of how he does things. I think overall, the collective outside world has longer leash than Tepper uses.

that's not where my head expects things to be.....but realistically, it's going to make Bryce uniquely different than all his peers at #1. Even the "bad" ones. Did we overdraft him? I think so. But that doesn't really matter. The org, fans, media, etc largely is going to acknowledge what he was drafted to be. QB is weird. I think you could get away with drafting a DE #1 overall and he end up being a Charles Johnson caliber DE (slow progression where he sort of comes into his own in year 4) vs a Julius Peppers. Hard to imagine QB being treated as such. I think if Bryce has a future of being "solid"....it likely ends up being w/ another team. His expectations, fair or not, or for more than solid here.

Vinegar or mustard. There is a lot we should know about what type people these guys are.

I'm not arguing against it. I'm just arguing when the season kicks off, they should be carrying a legit C on the roster going in.

let's get way more controversial....ask them about cargo shorts and if it's Pee-can or Puh-khan.