Panthers Rhule

No thank you. I like posts like this and conversations like this. The posts here have been very enjoyable. It's like the conversations you can have at your favorite Panther's bar just having a beer, some food and fan talk with the guys just wanting to have some fun in the afternoon with the boys before returning home to the family.

In the pre-draft presser, we said we have spoken with 5 teams about a potential trade down. Since then, I have been trying to consider who those 5 teams would be. Remember, in the same conversation we also said that we had 16 players as 1st round picks and we do not know who those players are. My guess would be at least 3 and as many as 6 are NOT commonly ranked as the 16 best players in the draft based on our staffs own personal preferences. Based on rumors, even if they make no sense to me personally, and then what I think some teams may be willing to do I have come up with these 5 teams: Broncos (to stop us from from allowing another team to jump ahead of them for their QB) Chargers (to secure a non QB they really like. Maybe Slater or a WR) Patriots (to jump ahead of Denver for a QB they like. Yes they don't usually do this but they don't usually sign big FAs and they did and they used to have Mr. Brady) Cardinals (to secure a non QB they really like. Specifically a WR) Bears (For a QB. The coach and GM's butts have to be hot. Underachieving team might reach to save jobs) Possible: WFT (I don't put them here as I think they may be too conservative now to move so high unless their owner hadn't learned his lesson yet)

Hopefully Arnold will help that situation out a little and the we either draft a WR in the mid to later ounds to do that or someone else on the roster steps up.

I would agree with everyone here except for 2. Parsons has to be an absolutely no way a fit for Rhules' team. Rhule is a character guy who scratches players off his list based on elevator behavior so I cannot imagine any scenario where he'd be okay with drafting Parsons in any round. Samuel JR is a good CB but I don't believe he fits our parameters for a QB and definitely not as a CB 1 or 2 and personally I think we are looking for a CB1.

I would say frustrating yeah. Especially after that 3 game win streak and the way we beat the Cardinals. THAT was the game where I and probably a lot of us, got ahead of ourselves and started thinking we were better than we were because we all could see how close we were to being who I think we will become. If that makes any sense. They were a legit playoff contender and we looked better. Even after that we played some good teams really well and even almost beat the Chiefs. I was still waiting for that last "click" that would put us into contention for a wildcard but then it never happened. Teddy was never great but it almost looked like it could be enough. Losing CMC made a difference but it was more after Teddy got hurt. When he came back he was worse. Still, I saw enough good that with these off season moves, which I am VERY optimistic about, plus the way we seem to be approaching the draft, that I have high hopes for the direction we're moving in. I'm not saying next season we'll set the league on fire but I can definitely see us moving up from wannabe to playoff contenders in 2022. I think our defense will be much better and my hope on offense will be improvement and a little more Shazam! I'm not looking for Darnold to be a top 5 QB but if he can come out and have his best season to date and give us some big play possibilities and some passing TDs without too many turnovers then I think he will be fine here. I'm going to consider his first 3 seasons with the Jets as his rookie campaign on a bad team. Now I'll judge him as a year 2 QB that has some talent around him and I want to see his progression along that line. Then hopefully, next season we have more talent (or experience as everyone is either really young or new to the system) and see him continue to progress. I know I'm an optimist, I'm a not I glass half empty or glass half full type of guy, for me the glass is completely full, half water and half air. But I really believe that of all the young QBs that we could have brought here that Darnold has the biggest chance of becoming something special with THIS staff on THIS team. I think he's a perfect fit for what we want to do and I think our team is the perfect place for him to have success. I'm expecting at least a Mayfield type of improvement this season after he got paired with Stefanski.

This is an interesting bet to me. I like contemplating scenarios and possibilities in general and I have contemplated this exact decision. Surtain vs Horn. It's an interesting one as Surtain is a little bigger but Horn is a little faster. Surtain is more developed at this point but has been coached at the highest level his whole life. I read an interesting take on this and it did make some sense. Basically, Surtain has already been coached up. That doesn't mean he can't learn something new nor improve on what he's learned but you shouldn't expect him to be much more than what he is now. (Which is a great CB by the way), Horn has surely had great mentors in football and good trainers through his Father's connections as well I'd imagine. Both of these kids were raised to be football players and had the resources to receive the best opportunities. Can Horn be coached higher? Can Surtain continue to grow? Those are good questions and only time will tell but both appear to be solid players with great NFL potential. Personally, I think we may prefer Horn as I think he'd fit Snow's defense better.

Absolutely. We all saw it time and time again. It was a combination of things. For the record, I definitely want us being better than 5-11 every season but considering our circumstances last season i.e. completely rookie staff, bad roster, covid protocols etc., I wouldn't call that season abysmal as we were much better than I e3xpected us to be all things considered. 100% agree. I think that's what the point of the discussion is really about. We all agree we need to fix both things but the question is it which order in the draft? Can we improve LT more at 39 than what we have at CB at 39? Are the added picks worth any difference between what we think to be available? It's about total value. Elie LT + good CB or Shut Down CB + good LT + good WR/TE and maybe a pick in 2022.

Does it? I'm not saying that you're wrong but how much of that can we absolutely put of the offensive line? Surely some of it. Not being able to push it in on the goal line for example. But I'd also say a lot of it was not have a legitimate red zone threat coupled with a conservative QB who wasn't able to "put it in there" or "run it in there".

There are a couple of other players who could get drafted within that range who I'd doubt would be 1 of our 16 like Parsons and Smith. We could even have a thing against players who opted out last season if we don't like their reasons. In the pre-draft presser they said some players had good reasons. And the ones who didn't? Does that drop them from our 16? Maybe.

I read you analytics post and agreed with you. I really started thinking about that when I saw the predraft presser. And yes they may be bread crumbs, they are dropping a lot but at the same time there sounded like too much truth in it. We haven't had a shut down corner for even longer than we haven't had a great LT. Who was our last shut down corner? Have we ever had one? I honestly can't remember one. Surely we've had one and it's just been so long ago that the name escapes me.

There was also that mention about length showing up on tape at CB and at LT. That made me change my opinion as to who they may draft in the first. I'm now leaning towards it being a CB myself. I have to disagree on fields though. I'd say no way. He may be the reason we can trade back for that CB you mentioned and get the best haul for it.

Yeah, he has to be. No one would trade that much for Fields or Lance. SF is ready to win now. Jones should give them their best chance to do that.

Excellent post! I totally agree with all the logic you have presented. It's a team game and it takes a complete team to win. Rhule even said in his next to last presser that their inability to make stops on 3rd down last season was their biggest problem and he's correct. I will not be upset at all if our first pick is a shutdown CB, especially in a trade back scenario where we gain more draft capital. Hopefully for 2022 as well as what we'd get in 2021. I've been waiting for a calculated, intelligent, and analytical organization for a while now. That's why I was excited about getting Rhule and now bringing the new GM to really get this process started. I'm expecting an even better draft this season than we had last season as I expect more picks coming our way and still getting quality players that serve a purpose.

Well I don't use it on people who have different opinions than I do, most are insightful and make me reconsider my own opinions but there are a small few that just go on every thread and keep pushing the same negative things over and over. When someone does that, it starts to feel like trolling to me because it's the same basic argument again and again and it feels like an attack and it's not interesting anymore. Sometimes I began to doubt they are even fans. If I reach that point then I click. But there are lots of nice posters here, even the ones I sometimes disagree with I sometimes do agree with or can at least understand their views.

The funny thing about that is that spaghetti with meatballs is actually American. They don't do that in Italy. Italians have ragù which is a meat sauce and they use many different types of meat, usually wild like boar, hare, pheasant and deer. If you ever visit Italy, and especially the region of Tuscany, I highly recommend you try any pasta with ragù di cinghiale (boar). It will knock your socks off.

Well since I'm alone on an island I'd want to go with something that kept me calm and reflective so I'd have to say radiohead. Can't name a favorite song as with them it totally depends on which mood I'm in. That also decides which album I'd listen too. The best I could do would be to say that my favorite album is usually In Rainbows but sometimes I might say Kid A. Depending on my mood. I go back and forth on that question but usually In Rainbows.

I have just recently discovered the ignore posts option. I try to use it sparingly but if I see that a person seems to only express negative views and they bring me down then with a simple click they go away and I am surrounded by mostly positive and insightful fans. It makes the discussions here more pleasant. I highly recommend it.

https://www.nfl.com/news/chiefs-acquire-lt-orlando-brown-in-trade-with-ravens Chiefs traded for Orlando Brown

I don't know. If they thought he could play LT why didn't they move him there last year? I mean we did go to our 4th option at one point but we never moved Moten there.

Yeah probably. I think I have found my inner peace though. I started this whole process thinking about trading for Darnold since we were at 8 and Jets would take a QB. Then the Watson thing began and I totally dropped that thought and was all in for Watson. Next, I started dreaming scenarios where Lance was our guy and how he could be the next Maholmes. After that, we actually do trade for Darnold and I remembered that I initially liked that idea so I started dreaming about LTs. Basically, this has been the most fun I've ever had during an off season and I have absolutely no idea what we are going to do next Thursday and I love it!!! These guys have impressed the hell out of me so far with their work ethic and process that I'm going to honestly be okay with whatever they do as I have zero doubts that they haven't thought everything through 100%. So, if they think it's right for the team, I will not question it whatever my personal prejudices might be because in the end I'm just Jon Snow and I know nothing. KEEP POUNDING!!!

This was something that immediately stood out to me. As soon as I heard it my first thought was Slater. It made me think that if players x,y,z aren't there at 8 and we can trade down then the first pick may very well be a CB and LT in the 2nd. Just depends on how many of the LTs are 1 of their 16 1st round players. They mentioned in the last presser that inability to make stops on 3rd down was a major issue. Getting an elite CB would help that a lot with our expected increased pass rush.

Off the top of my head I can name Steve Young, Drew Brees, Carlson Parmer, Danny Testerverde, Ryan Tannehill, Rob Johnson and Rich Gannon. I'm sure there are others but this is just what I can think of without spending too much time on it.

I would be ok with taking a QB in this draft but not in the first. Mills or Mond would be ok but I really doubt it happens. I now there are some who really want to draft a QB but honestly, after the Darnold trade, I doubt we look at a 1st round QB until at the earliest 2023. We basically just drafted Darnold. It's a different situation than Teddy and I don't believe Rhule chose Teddy but he did choose Darnold so he will at least get half of a rookies chance to prove himself (his remaining 2 years of his rookie deal) before the attempt to seriously look for another. So a good back up plan like Mills or Mond I could see as possible but Howell or Rattler in the first next season or a qb in the first this season I honestly just can't see it.

I don't know why some are acting irritated and calling these 2 posts click bait and stating the obvious that all teams are talking about different scenarios of trading up and or down. Yes, we know they all do it but we haven't really discussed either very much and now that the draft is getting nearer and perhaps clearer, the different possibilities are starting to show themselves and I personally think it's time to start considering these possibilities/opportunities more seriously. We're currently discussing in great detail our preferences at pick 8. I think it's clear that we have 3 different camps that have a preference for their "perfect" scenario as well as what they see as an acceptable or unacceptable alternative depending on how the board falls. There has been some, although more quiet, suggesting or at least questioning the possibility of a trade back and what they could mean and there hasn't really been a deep discussion on that idea so why not now? It is a real possibility depending on how the board pans out on draft night. I for one am happy that we are preparing for every scenario and getting an idea of what may or may not be possible if x, y or z happens or any combination thereof. I'm sure most teams if not all are doing this to some degree or another. I hope and also believe that we are probably on the extreme end of this planning as if nothing else, this staff does seem really sincere about exploring each and every opportunity available either realistically or theoretically. So, let's be honest. How many people have ran at least 1 (and probably many more) mock on PFF where we accepted the trade downs offered? I know I have done many same as I've ran mocks controlling multiple teams to set up drafts in different ways just to see how they may play out. I'm sure our staff has done the same though probably not on PFF. I did one just about 3 hours ago actually. It was the BIG offer from the Bills. I received their 2022 2nd and 3rd round picks, recovering what we traded away for Darnold (which is something I'm pretty sure we are intending to do do in at least some way), plus a 2nd and 3rd this draft. Now I doubt such a trade would happen but it's just for the sake of discussion. In that mock, I was able to get 5 picks in the top 100 plus pick 113 as well as getting next seasons picks back up to 7 total. Now obviously this is an extreme example but it helps puts things onto perspective. Beyond recovering next seasons 2nd, although probably a lower value than ours would have been we did move up from our 4th and into the 3rd. so they balance out pretty well. We did have to move down to 30 so that is a significant drop but we also gained 2 additional picks this draft and high ones too. We lose out on 1 of the most likely to be elite players ( thought not necessarily) and what did we get? At 30 CB Ifeatu Melifonwu. Potential starting CB who could also play safety. The type of player we might have targeted in the 2nd round if we didn't trade but perhaps a better prospect than what would have been available at 39. The actual player isn't as important in this discussion as what it represents. Swap player with whomever you like. The point is the possibility of getting a late first round talent at a position of need. There are several possibilities likely even at 30. We could even use a pick or 2 from the original trade to try to move back up higher in the first if that's what we wanted to do. The main advantage to this trade is having 7 picks in 2020 and/or something more in this draft. Pick 39 Dillon Radunz and pick 61 Elijah Moore. Here we have 2 players who at positions we would likely consider at pick 8. They aren't as strong of prospects of course but they are still solid prospects and could potentially play the same roles. It's like when we drafted Chinn in the 2nd instead of Simmons in the first. Same type of player but considered a weaker prospect. In the end I think we are all happy with how that turned out. The odds of that happening with both of these players is low but it could happen and even if it doesn't, they could still be good. Radunz is the athletic LT who could also play OG instead of Slater and Moore would be the fast, play making slot WR with return capabilities instead of Waddle. Then at 73 we have OT Jalen Mayfield and at 93 Brevin Jordan. Because of the extra pick given to us by trading down, we hade the luxury of double dipping not just the OL in general but also 2 players who could also play OT. In this situation we have 2 players who could become our LT of the future. Both bring versatility and at the very least depth at extremely important positions. Radunz could also perhaps be an improvement at OG if he doesn't win the LT job, Mayfield can play both OT spots and if he plays well, could be safety net at RT if he doesn't win the LT job. If they both pan out it offers us a lot of flexibility with our roster in 2022 and could create cap savings or future trade possibilities. Jordan would be the Y TE and playing a similar, (although likely lesser) role that we would want from Pitts at 8. He's less of a WR than Pitts ofc but could be used in the same way. TE depth for sure, double TE sets or lining up outside on 3rd downs or in the Redzone. Having Arnold and Jordan on the field at the same time could cause defenses serious match up problems in those scenarios. Then we still have our 4th round pick at 113 where we could perhaps find our rotational/depth 3 tech DT like Tuipulotu or someone else. Perhaps a safety? Basically, any trade down opportunity should definitely be considered. Rhule stated in his last presser that team value could be greater than individual value. Recovering 2020's picks must be considered as well as the possibility of adding 1 or 2 improvements to the line up of having just 1 elite player. For a team in rebuild, even if it's a rebuilding team trying to win at the same time like we are, such trade scenarios could be very beneficial for us long term. I'm sure we would like to become a team that has multiple picks to work with every season moving forward. At the moment we are in a deficit here but smart trade downs could begin to slowly reverse that situation and keep adding depth. As the season get longer depth only becomes more and more important. I personally hope that we can eventually reach the point where we are actually able to trade away players with good value the year before their contacts end. Once we have a solid depth chart, we can st up a draft pattern that will allow us to constantly have the next man up at positions so that we never have to overpay good players out of necessity and always get valuable assets for those players instead of watching them go for nothing in return.