Seltzer

I'm not disputing that winning is the ultimate cure for what ails this franchise. But without a proven LT or QB, we are still a long ways away from winning. And it's becoming a vicious cycle... the team sucks, fairweather fans sell, the experience sucks for the most loyal fans. Like you said it has been 4+ years of this... I don't think Tepper has earned the right or latitude with fans to expect them to keep supporting this sinking ship cart blanche until they start winning. Thousands of PSL owners have already walked away... there are a lot more of us on the precipice. Just saying winning will cure all is quaint at this point. And I mean that with no disrespect. Winning is this ephemeral thing that this team simply can't capture and doesn't seem to be even close if we're being honest. Something has to be done in the interim.

I understand free markets perfectly well. And Tepper can stick to that mantra, but he will have no fanbase left that actually is interesting in paying to watch the team live. He has to decide what is worth more to him long-term. Obviously, there will be pissed off people who won't be able to profit. But revoking PSL's has been done and it should be done if he cares about the most loyal fans. There have been thousands of PSL owners who have simply walked away. I know b/c I'm there. Tepper also has to know what a huge problem this is. I don't care about the feelings of PSL owners who simply view this as an investment. If Tepper really has no more concern for this team beyond that, he should sell the team. If he does actually care about bringing a championship to the Carolinas and developing a culture worth a damn, he has to do something. Not doing something is straight up malfeasance, and it is destroying the most loyal part of the fanbase.

I'm usually an optimist, but this feels like 2009 where we realized we had no QB and no hope... I feel like we have at least another year in QB purgatory, and it's depressing as hell. And there is no guarantee there is a Cam Newton waiting beyond the horizon. Like I said, I can't snap my fingers and change the direction of this franchise, but I can't keep subjecting myself to the torture of watching this S-show live when the stadium is overran by the opposing team. It's just an awful feeling all the way around, and it's not where I thought we would be at this point. And it seems like it is going to get worse again before there's any hope of getting better.

It was probably 40-45% Patriots fans and the rest Panthers fans. We literally had nothing to cheer for in the 2nd half. Towards the end of the game it was definitely 75% Patriots fans, same as it was against the Eagles. It's depressing to even write it, and it sure as fug sucked in person.

He better come out after the season with an update on the grand plan and what he is going to do to earn the continued support of the fans. The team has progressively gotten worse under Tepper. I don't see a sustainable long-term plan... wasn't that the point??

This is my biggest request as a 16 season (and unfortunately counting) PSL holder. Tepper needs to address this as soon as the season is over. I hate the losing, full stop, but nothing has made me question my commitment to this team more than the stadium being taken over by opposing fans. I'm tired of experiencing it, I'm tired of trying to bring my son into Panthers fandom with all of it, and I'm tired for all the loyal Panthers fans who have tried to stick by the team. Another wasted season is bad enough... if I am going to have to suffer through this BS excuse for an offense, the least I can ask is to endure the humiliation amongst actual Panthers fans without having to have other fans gloat while I waste another day and several hundred dollars on what is proving to be a futile endeavor. It's just adding a layer of embarrassment and humiliation that I can't continue to ignore... Tepper is worth $14B+. If he cares about this fan base, he will do something as soon as humanly possible, finances be damned. I understand winning is the best thing for the fanbase, but in lieu of that (since "developing sustained success" evidently is a 5 year-plus plan), I need something from Tepper that lets me and the other loyal fans know he cares. It's not even the money, although the financial commitment is significant. I'm tired of pouring my heart and soul into supporting the team live when it seems like no one cares. I'm not a blowhard who says I'm not going to watch (b/c I will), but I can't continue to waste my time and money and Sundays with my son on this nonsense. I'm not spoiled enough to believe I deserve a win as a fan, but I do deserve a better stadium experience. If Tepper can't provide that, he should sell the team to someone who can. I'd rather have a half full stadium of Panthers fans than a 3/4 full stadium with 40+% opposing teams fans. And that is honestly the case at this point. It's absolutely out of control and is more demoralizing to me than anything else. I can continue to be patient on this master plan, but not with the current disregard for PSL owners who want to support the team. Tepper should cancel the PSL's for owners who sell their tickets consistently and buy them out. It may be a short-term loss, but he should be worried about the current trajectory of the Panthers most loyal fans towards apathy. It simply cannot continue like this if the Panthers want the support from the most committed fans. End rant, but I know there are thousands of other PSL owners like me that have had enough of the BS.

Just got parked... this is so demoralizing to see so many Patriots jerseys in uptown... I don't what can be done, but it is BS that the fans that cared enough to buy the PSLs to finance this stadium have to be subjected to this on a constant basis. PSL holders who constantly sell their tickets should forfeit them

I live near Scott Fowler and can 100% confirm he is absolutely the clown he comes across to be. I use to coach against him and he was shady and always wanting and thinking the refs should help him out since he was a "local celebrity"... Anyway, the only thing positive I can say if his boys are good, respectful young men (I'm assuming due to the mother)

LOL you're right... and I'm going... that was a brain fart

Your analysis overall is pretty spot on. The Lions were abysmal when we played them last year, and it will take a better effort to beat the Patriots on the road. That being said, I honestly thought PJ did pretty good as a backup in that game other than the 2 awful endzone throws. Nothing great, but he did move the offense. I think the game Sunday comes down to who makes more mistakes IMO. The Patriots are well-coached but are definitely not the juggernaut they once were. IMO, they are going to try to run the ball with much of the same game plan we did last week against Atlanta. Both defenses have the advantage over the corresponding offenses. I think it will be a low-scoring physical game. The QB who makes the critical mistake will be the difference in the game. I think Mac Jones will develop into a capable starter, but he's still a rookie and our defense can rattle him. I certainly don't think the QB matchup is really that much of a difference maker, whether Darnold plays or not.

https://www.nfl.com/news/saints-wr-michael-thomas-to-miss-rest-of-season-due-to-setback-with-ankle-injury For all we complain about the bad contracts the Panthers have given out, the Saints have to regret this contract with every fiber of their being. Can't imagine Slant Boi will be back at ~$20M per year. Also doubt he will ever be a dominant receiver again

Would take him over Clay Johnston or Julian Stanford ever though Jaylon Smith isn't the player he once was. As a starter, no. But Jaylon Smith is better than the LBers not named Haason Reddick, Shaq Thompson, Frankie Luvu, or Jermaine Carter Last game proved how important Shaq is to this defense. We need another capable interior LB besides Shaq and Carter. Only reason I would say no would be any complications with ST.

Haynes has some value, just lost in the numbers game with the emergence of Luvu. Haynes has worked hard since he was drafted and deserves a chance to play more somewhere IMO, especially if it nets us at least a 5th

Trent Scott was a pleasant, nasty surprise at RG

I feel ya 100%. My oldest has just started to get into the Panthers, and there has never been as demoralizing a feeling as having him at the Eagles game only to watch complete offensive and coaching ineptitude while the stadium is overrun with Eagles fans. And at some point, it's even beyond the money wasted. The disappointment of my son not seeing even a competitive team and wondering why the stadium is full on non-Panthers fans is enough to make even a long-term supporter like me reevaluate what I'm doing...

Tepper needs to take notice. Apathy has already set in among a lot of fans even before this season. Little star power relative to the 2015 era squads most fans remember. It's reflected in the stadium. This forum is full of more dedicated fans, but the last few years (really the entire Tepper era) have taken it out of us. I've had PSL's for the past 16 seasons, and I'm beginning to contemplate letting them go. I love the Panthers and always will, but it takes a lot of financial and time commitment to support them like I do, especially to do it in-person when a large percentage of seats are sold to the opposing fans. It gets harder by the year. I really bought into Rhule and the idea he was turning this thing around, but the mismanagement of the QB position (and to a lesser extent the offensive line) would be comical if it wasn't my team. It really is hard to screw up QB any worse than Rhule has done. And I'm an optimist. Many on this board are not. I was surprised at how Jeremy had turned against the current administration at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized how right he is. This season will just be playing out the string, the same as the last 3 seasons and counting. And the worst part is there is no discernible plan to turn this around. That to me is the most demoralizing thing. I don't know what good firing Rhule after this season would do. Brady will abandon this ship the minute the season is over to jump to LSU. It's not outside the realm of possibility Rhule will also. This seems like a good place to finish. Things are never usually as good as they seem or as bad. Maybe that's true, but after last Sunday's debacle, it's getting harder to have perspective. I know I've never seen such incredibly awful QB play from a (non-injured) QB the coaching staff bought and sold to the fanbase. Anyway, like many of you, I'm just trying to fight this apathy and continue (yet again) to hope for better days, which I know are not magically around the corner.

Based on what exactly?

I'm not totally exonerating Sam, but this is not all on him and he showed more moxie on that last drive than Teddy ever did in spite of unacceptable drops. I'm not saying he's the answer but it's hard to scapegoat one guy when there is such a colossal amount of blame to go around

I like seeing the fire from CMC in his press conference. Joe Person and David Newton should be thankful they don't have to go against CMC in a blocking drill after the equal parts asinine and invasive questions they kept hammering him about his health. It would be like CMC asking Person if he's been rocking that same goofy hairstyle since high school or asking if David Newton has job security at ESPN b/c of his mental retardation condition...

Asset management. Sign the defensive guys to keep the defense strong. Reddick and Jackson are musts in my opinion. Gilmore is wait-and-see... No reason for either party to commit until he's on the field consistently To your greater point, like Fitterer said, you almost have to build an Offensive Line through the draft b/c there is such a dearth of good linemen and teams aren't going to let them go under hardly any circumstance. Plus, you have the benefit of a lower cost structure for your offensive line so you can pay other players Good drafting is ultimately the key to all this working long-term b/c it allows you to build your roster with a substantial number of guys on rookie deals while having the cap space to reward the guys who have earned it and allows you to augment selectively through free agency. Hurney could never produce a consistent winner b/c his drafts really did suck after the 1st round when you view his tenure in its totality. The Panthers were usually very top heavy with little depth and a few injuries could and did derail multiple seasons. Especially now with a 17th game, drafting well and churning the bottom of the roster is of even greater importance due to how many guys you need to play over the season. Rhule & Fitterer are much more forward thinking in both seeing and planning for this attrition.

Mods need to lock and delete these nonsense threads

Great guy- just can't handle the mental pressure of being a NFL kicker. Which is a shame b/c he has elite physical talent as a kicker But ultimately nothing matters if you can't put it through the upright when it counts

Before the start of last season (meaning pre-draft/ pre-free agency), the Panthers had really only 1 somewhat proven blue-chip defensive player in Brian Burns Now, by my estimation, we have arguably 6 : Brian Burns Derrick Brown Haason Reddick Shaq Thompson (he finally looks like a worth successor to Luke/TD) Jeremy Chinn Donte Jackson More importantly, we have 5 other players that are on the cusp and/or have blue-chip potential: Jaycee Horn CJ Henderson Morgan Fox Daviyon Nixon (Definitely top-end talent on film) Yetur Gross-Matos That doesn't even include the other non blue-chip guys on defense who are still solid contributors: Jermaine Carter Frankie Luvu DaQuan Jones (good player but older) Marquis Haynes (honestly could see him signing elsewhere for more opportunity b/c he could start for some teams) Juston Burris Bottom line is this, In less than 2 years, this team has added high-end talent across all levels of the defense. Truly remarkable what Matt Rhule & Phil Snow have done

Hoping for a physical, brutal game that ends in an OT tie with the Cowboys tired for next Sunday

Wild card. It's hard to envision winning an actual playoff game with this offensive line. Now, having said that, this defense is going to keep us in most games. But TBH, Darnold and CMC have overcome this offensive line more so than actually benefitting from it... and I don't see the team being able to magically upgrade until after the season. Hope I'm wrong, but honestly, even sniffing the playoffs after almost every national pundit picked us to finish last or near last will be vindicating enough for this year.