Icege

Do we just get to have the player without any salary cap implications? Do they have to be a current player? Give me Brian Dawkins and just let him bless people.

Just finished the doc and it's pretty good. Nothing revealing other than getting a look into TMac's personality and his support circle. Looks like he's surrounded himself with some good friends that have his back and are genuinely happy for him in his success. Cool to see.

4.28 vs. 4.31 Funny enough... I can see the Ted Ginn Jr comp. Hands aren't the best but has great speed... except XL is almost 50lbs bigger than Ginn was. That's a whole lot of him to be moving that fast.

And that right there is the disconnect. It’s not that you’re being misunderstood... it’s that you’re refusing to consider any perspective but your own. That kind of zero-sum absolutism doesn’t lead to learning nor understanding. It just creates dissonance and a distorted sense of certainty.

Yea, there's a good amount of players there but fortunately it's not a lot of expensive players that are going to demand a premium to be replaced outside of TMo. A punter, two ST LBs, a LS, three back-up OL, and a starting center are all players that can be replaced with day three picks which will allow the team to commit the premium picks to premium positions. fwiw I hope that they invest in a franchise center next season if they decide Mays isn't the guy.

Base for run downs: Scourton-Brown-Brown III-Robinson-Wonnum Base for passing downs: Scourton-Brown-Jackson-Wharton-Umanmielen I can dig it...

Most analysts from what I've seen are projecting next year's cap as closer to $298M but as high as in the low 300s. We saw a $24M increase this season, $31M increase last season, and $16M prior to that. There's also the inevitable cap casualties... A'Shawn Robinson being cut saves the team $8.5M. Damien Lewis would save $9M. BB3, Jewell, PJ2 all would save $5M each. Tremble and Mike Jackson could save $4M each. It wouldn't surprise me to see the team make a few moves that end up giving them closer to $50M in cap space to start 2026. I'm less worried about next year's cap space due to the upcoming UFAs for the team: TMo, AT, Tuttle, Wonnum, Nijman, Mays, Corbett, BC, Dowdle, Rozeboom, Martin, Rhattigan, Jansen, Scott... the only FAs I'm seeing on Spotrac outside of TMo that are must keeps are ERFAs Coker + Demani (so long as TMo's knee is fine, of course). 2027 on the other hand is going to be the offseason for Bryce's bonus option with Icky being the most significant UFA. PJ2, A'Shawn, Josey, MJackson, Tremble, Dalton, DJ Johnson, Zavala, and Bartholomew are the only other current FAs then. I'm of the opinion that they are all in on next season and if it doesn't go well, it's being blown up and starting from scratch. They're currently estimated to have $130M in free cap space in 2027.

Sure, there's definitely a chance that a fire sale in 2022 could've paid off but I don't think that's a certainty. It's not just about stockpiling the picks and bettering odds; it's about hitting on those picks, having a stable coaching staff to develop them, and keeping the locker room engaged. We didn't exactly have a model front office nor stable coaching staff in 2022. It's worth noting that part of the reason that DJ had to be included in the trade up for #1 was because the Bears needed an immediate, proven WR1 to help Fields. It was him or another immediate first-round pick, not a future one like what was being offered for Burns (whom teams knew that things were shaky with and that they could afford to wait). As for the Eagles, they recovered because the foundation was already in place. Pederson got flak and was ultimately fired (and was just fired again this offseason from the Jags). Their recovery was quick because the foundation was already in place: Howie Roseman and a solid roster (that included a stacked OL, a second year QB, and a veteran defense). Philly had a margin of error that just wasn't available to Carolina. I'm not against using the draft to rebuild, but a full-on teardown comes with real consequences: fan disengagement, a fractured locker room, poor development, a losing environment... and I don't believe that we had the necessary leadership at the time to cleanly navigate it. That's a gamble that I want no part of. Now that we do have a staff that seems to be in complete alignment and building for the future rather than fighting for their jobs, I'm more inclined to observe their process and see where it leads rather than backseat driving with "perfect" hindsight.

I don’t think the issue here is that your perspective isn’t being understood. It’s clear imo - you’re suggesting that the front office should intentionally weaken the roster by offloading talent in exchange for future assets. If I'm misreading that, then disregard the rest because then that puts the disconnect on my side of the court. But I believe the actual disconnect comes from the way it is being presented... as if tanking is always the optimal path forward. That framing overlooks very real consequences: financial losses from a disengaged fanbase, damage to team culture (say what you want about "culture-building" wins, but this team looks more united than it has since the Super Bowl run), and the difficulty in attracting/retaining talent when players don’t believe they’ll get a fair shot to compete during their already-limited careers. Not every organization is in a position to go full teardown and when they gamble on the future at the expense of the present, they risk more than draft position... they risk credibility.

I'm impressed with the way Tillis is structuring the books. The team is currently spending more on non-premium positions like iOL and S, but that’s because they’ve got rookie deals locked in at several key premium spots: QB: Bryce Young LT: Ikem Ekwonu EDGE: Nic Scourton, Princely Umanmielen WR: Tetairoa McMillan, Xavier Legette, Jalen Coker The only veterans at those premium positions on second contracts are Taylor Moton, Adam Thielen, and the recently extended Jaycee Horn. Given that setup, it makes sense to allocate bigger dollars toward non-premium roles - especially if those pieces support the development and success of the younger core. Investing in iOL helps our young QB. Strengthening the DL helps both of our young EDGE guys and our high-paid CB. I can see the vision. Fingers crossed that it works!

This is incredible lmfaoooooooooo

My head is spinning from a lifetime of, "If you see somebody jump off of a bridge does that mean you should do it too?" to the current, "I'M ABOUT TO SWANTON BOMB A VEHICLE ON THE INTERSTATE BELOW, LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE FOR EARLY ACCESS TO MY NEW MEMECOIN!"

Omgomg

Tony Pauline says he's fine. Take that as you will.

I am JUICED to see these young guys get on the field and figure things out over the course of the season. I know that things are being slow-played and that 2026 - 2027 is the "show up or shut up" season for this iteration of the team, but it's difficult for me not to be excited about how they might trend.

Ironic that out of all of the multiple players listed, you zeroed in on Bryce Young and only Bryce Young. No mention of Derrick Brown or Jaycee Horn... Hell, we can even add Icky to the mix but sure... let's laser-focus on Bryce. That's a hell of a mirror for you to run into. I'm not sure what "wisdom" you think you're imparting to the front office beyond the idea that the being Panthers means that they're destined to suck forever. That doesn't exactly sound like wisdom as much as it sounds like the same relentless doompilling you've been committed to. But sure, let's pretend it's "rational" to condemn a pick after limited rookie action and an injury setback (and that anything less than full-blown pessimism is bootlicking). That's certainly the lighthouse we all need in the storm that you insist is eternal... at least until you and only you, decide it's not. Unlike you, I'm not asking anyone to leave. I'll just keep showing up with facts and context. You're more than welcome to keep showing up with doom and gloom.

I like his pairing with Jewell for the upcoming season. Josey can play close to the line + blitz while Wallace can drop back into coverage and cover space with his speed. I can see Evero looking to send Wallace on the blitz in the second half after establishing him as a coverage guy to the opposing offense.

Considering you previously struggled to understand BTT despite it being explained in a video, write-up, and multiple replies, I get why this might be a little too complex for you. Happy to clarify again! Just let me know which part tripped you up this time.

Kind of like folks that double, triple, and quadruple down on hating Bryce Young being the Panthers' QB? This hindsight fantasy that the team was locked in on Zach Frazier and passed on a "guaranteed" franchise center is, at best, revisionist; at worst, it's the same tired fatalism we've seen directed at Derrick Brown, Jaycee Horn, Bryce Young... and now Jonathon Brooks. It's wild watching Panthers fans trip over themselves to dismiss any pick that doesn’t line up with their emotional forecasting, no matter the context, logic, or timeline.

Thanks @CarolinaLivin! Didn't have as much free time as I wanted to follow the rookie camp at all so this thread has been a godsend.

Damn, that sucks for Derek. I always liked him as a person, especially after he hopped on the Huddle just to be proud of his older brother. Hope his next chapter goes smoothly for him.

Don't forget the young TEs, Coker, Etienne, and Jimmy Horn Jr! I'm amped to see how the team develops over the course of this upcoming season.

I mean... a lot of the information that could've helped set better expectations has always been out there: There was no RB on the team under contract for the 2025 - 2026 season except for Miles Sanders. The team did not have a second round pick going into the 2025 season due to the trade for Young. Chuba's extension did not happen until the beginning of November. Jonathon Brooks was the clear RB1 in the class with a massive gap between RB1 & RB2. Example: Dane Brugler had Brooks as RB1, overall #48; Blake Corum was RB2, #81 overall. The Giants held pick #47 and had just lost Saquon Barkley to the Eagles in free agency. They were going to take Brooks had the Panthers not jumped in front of them. So if we're framing things with that context: Chuba was expected to be RB1 Miles (at the time) was RB2 Brooks was essentially RB3, stashed for rehab in 2024 with a long runway. The original injury occurred Nov 2023 while the re-injury occurred December 2024. That is right in the high-risk window for recurrence, especially in explosive athletes. The fact that it also happened on a non-contact play suggests possible biomechanical issues such as muscle imbalance, rather than a failed surgery (or bad decision-making). NFL teams invest heavily in medically vetting prospects. If there had been a clear red flag in imaging or recovery markers, the team is going to find it. This sucks and the Panthers have sucked, yes, but this wasn't blind optimism or malpractice by the front office. It was a calculated decision based on the roster, draft capital, positional scarcity, etc.

These are the three deep throw attempts that Will Levis made in week 12. His first one is a beauty; Levis and Westbrook-Ikhine gets the safety to bite on a deep dig only to go over the top for the score. His second throw is another beauty: a crosser to Calvin Ridley reminiscent of Bryce to XL (though Ridley has noticeably more separation on his route). His third and final deep shot was an incompletion from his own endzone on 3rd & 14 with pressure coming down on him (to me, this seems like a solid throw). Film Room Playlist NFL Pro-02.mp4 Film Room Playlist NFL Pro-01.mp4 Film Room Playlist NFL Pro.mp4 Film Room Playlist NFL Pro-01.mp4 Levis took half of the deep shots that Young did. The differences are: Ridley had much better separation than XL, which is why his deep crosser turned into a 63yd play since he was able to scamper for another 15+ after the catch. Westbrook-Ikhine holds on to his TD pass. Bryce had to throw one away to preserve time for a field goal. Bryce had two more throws that were incomplete due to the WR Are we really holding the three WR errors and clock management decision against Bryce in order to say that Will was better throwing deep in week 12? That's not passing the eye test nor is it confirmed by the data.

So you believe that Levis had a better day throwing deep because one of those was a TDs? Asking for clarity on that as it was already clearly demonstrated that Bryce would've had a TD had Moore not dropped it in the back of the end zone. The entire purpose of their metric is to look at the throw and grade that because the QB has complete control over it. That was made abundantly clear from the video provided prior to that. Nobody is trying to manifest him as a top-10 player. He had performances during his return from benching that measured in the top-10 in different metrics. The issue at play is that because those stats support Bryce's progress (and refutes that his ceiling is his floor), that you and other people that don't care for Bryce being the Panthers' QB are going out of your way to either a) ignore factual data, or b) cast uncertainty on the methodology. There's no actual interest in stats and facts like as you mentioned previously. All of the non-PFF info, like passing yards in a single game, is also not entirely reliant on the QB. That's one of the points that Jimmy has hammered home but y'all continue to try and sidestep: that the ability to throw deep relies more on elements like timing rather than physically having a howitzer for an arm. Yes, arm strength does play a role but let's not be coy: the entire narrative that Bryce is not a capable deep ball thrower is 100% rooted in the same reasoning that folks had for thinking he wouldn't survive an NFL hit... bro is too smol. We have plenty of data (AND film) that show this. Whether or not the people that don't want it to be true stop clinging to what they want to believe instead is up to them.