tukafan21

So...... what you're saying is I got into 3 months worth of arguments and posting until my fingers hurt from typing out novels each day for nothing? Oh well, T-Mac is still a Panther in the end, totally worth it, LOL.

The Sanders family's problem is that they raised Shedeur to have the exact same mindset and persona as Deion, and then used Deion as the example as to why it's not a problem. Even in that public interview at the combine, he gave some answer like, "do you know who my dad was and the things they said about him and he was still a HOFer?" The problem is his dad was a CB and sometimes a WR, the two positions in the NFL where not only nobody cares if you have that outward persona, in many cases it's something teams look for because WRs and CBs need to have that mentality out there on an island. His interview answer that's been going around about where you see yourself in 5 years, and his response of being Mayor of that town and laughing is a perfect example of it. There is no issue if that's your QB's mentality, we all know how Cam was. The problem is there is a different between mentality and outward persona, and that just flat out doesn't work for a QB to have that persona, Cam didn't even do it. There are a lot of QB's who have that mindset, in particular, Burrow right now strikes me as that kind of guy. But he still knows how to flip that QB Switch and tones it back when speaking publicly and is able to be the face of the franchise. Shedeur and Deion never seemed to grasp that for some reason, and it's a problem. Have you ever heard reports of GM's being asked by defensive players on their team to draft a QB solely because they wanted to crush them in practice? That's wild to even think of, let alone hear about actually happening. QB is unlike any position in all of sports, whether fair or not, you have to act differently when speaking in public or on camera, and Shedeur just doesn't, if anything, he leans even more into his Deion like persona.

First on T-Mac, I 100% expect him to be the top WR from this class, however I think expecting him to put up 1k+ as a rookie isn't necessarily fair, especially since you're putting it in perspective of how many other rookie WRs have done that in recent years. And Thielen is the reason for that. Not many (if any) of those 1k+ rookies had someone like Thielen there when they were drafted, and no matter how good T-Mac is this year, Bryce is still going to lean on his existing chemistry with Thielen unless he's drastically lost a step this offseason and just can't get open like he's been able to in his career. As I pointed out in another thread the other day, looking at MHJ last year is the way to look at T-Mac's season if Thielen plays a full and healthy season. MHJ had McBride "steal" 110+ catches and 1,100+ yards in what was a pass happy offense (Kyler was 9th in the league in attempts), it's going to be hard for any rookie to put up more than the 800ish yards he had last year in that scenario. Especially if we follow a similar game plan to last year and be a run heavy team. In terms of XL, you're completely right, jumping up to get a project 2/3 isn't smart, and if we knew we needed a future slot from that pick, yes, Ladd would have been a much better pick. But at this point, those are all sunk costs, even taking T-Mac at 8 is now considered a sunk cost. Forgetting the past or who we maybe should have taken last year now knowing future roles, I still think T-Mac, XL, Coker can be one of the Top 1-3 WR rooms in the NFL in a few years, I honestly think they really do have that potential in them.

I think taking T-Mac changes how to look at XL and the season he had, especially in retrospect. If you look at his rookie season from the viewpoint of "we traded into the 1st round to take him as our #1 WR of the future" then yea, he had a god awful rookie season and I'd be scared about his future. But we've now drafted T-Mac, it allows us to now go back and look at XL's rookie season in a totally different light. XL was a late bloomer, essentially having only one college season of experience, he was always going to be VERY raw last year. If we knew at the time that one year later, we'd have a true #1 and XL "only needs to be a future #2 and potentially doing it from a power slot position" then I'm not so sure he had all that bad of a rookie season. Because he still had 49 catches for 500 yards and 4 TDs, which really is a pretty darn good rookie season for a player as raw as XL was/is, especially when you consider the QB struggles we had last year, and even once Bryce turned things around a bit, we were still a run based team and Bryce's stats were anything but mind-blowing. Personally, I think it's one of those situations where people are too focused on the negatives with XL and not seeing all the positives and potential he has given how raw he still is. Which is where viewing him as a future #2 vs #1 makes all the difference in the world in looking back on his rookie season and projecting his future role/ability. If he's worked on his craft and cuts back on his drops, it's very reasonable to think he could be a 70 catch, 800 yards, and 5 TD type of player for us in year 3 when he's the #2 after Thielen is gone. How many teams have that type of talent as their #2 WR behind a guy putting up 1,200+ and 10 on a yearly basis as their #1 as I fully expect T-Mac to be doing? Then if Coker also improves slightly and is kicking in 600-700 yards himself, then you've built yourself a Top 5 WR room.

I can tell you EXACTLY where we'd be, as it would have been one of two things to happen. DK Metcalf would be a Panther right now as we'd have made sure to beat out whatever offers were made for him as we'd have that desperate for WR help. Or we'd have still drafted T-Mac but probably would have needed to trade up to get him, as instead of the world thinking we were taking Carter or another defender, everyone with half a brain would have known T-Mac was our top target and some team would have bluffed another trading up to get him to get us to give up picks for him.

Isn't it? LOL

That's surprising to hear. If it took a while to get the T-Mac ones out there I'd have understood, because nobody knew who we would draft, if we took a defensive player there would have been much less demand for jerseys, so stocking up on material the last few months might not have been a smart decision. But when you trade for the #1 pick as long before the draft as we did, and knowing it would be for a QB, I'd think they'd have been stocking up so they could be ready to go right away.

Well, sure, nothing you're saying is incorrect (and yes, professional soccer players would run circles around any NFL player conditioning wise). But if we're comparing Hunter to just NFL prospects, he still might be the best conditioned player to come into the league. Even if he did tire towards the end of games, which would be expected, the overwhelming majority of players couldn't come close to doing what he did and play that many snaps every game. And yes, while WR and CB may be relatively light on contact, they are the two positions you actually run the most on the field and thus require greater conditioning/endurance than other positions. I also agree that he won't be able to play both ways full time, at least long term, but I think it's less about tiring out in games/seasons, as much as I don't think he'll be able to do it and stay healthy. Every season he plays both ways full time, it's the equivalent of playing two seasons for any other player. So if he plays both ways for 5 seasons, he just put 10 seasons worth of wear and tear on his body. His best chance at a great career is a Terrell Davis type, short but super elite before his body just tapped out.

Totally agree, BUT.......... I do think what we've already seen out of XL, Coker, and Sanders in year 1 is better than what we saw out of our past skill position picks that haven't panned out, KB's rookie year as the outlier. Especially since adding T-Mac pushes all 3 of them down in the pecking order and in turn, makes them a better player for the role they'll be taking on. Chuba has shown he can be a legit back and obviously, I'm as confident as anyone can ever be about a player panning out as I am with T-Mac. Nothing is guaranteed, but I really do think we've finally brought the right guys in and we're looking at our future offensive weapons already on the roster, it all hinges on Bryce thought of course.

Also, while the discussion is fun, I'm going to ask the original question in the OP again as nobody has mentioned one way or the other if they know..... Are they selling these in the team store yet? The timing of when these will start to ship out is really the only thing keeping me from putting my order in yet. If I'll get it in a month or less, I'm ordering it now, if it's going to be a while, I'm going to wait to see if they offer the blue and/or the better version of them.

I loved this answer, and not even just from the "fun teammate banter" part of it. That was such a media savvy answer by T-Mac, you just got drafted, there's no need to go calling out players on other teams and instantly providing bulletin board material (like the Cowboys guy calling out Jalen Carter did). Call out a teammate and instead of putting a target on your back to opposing teams or fans, you set up for fun practice battles to help the team improve, iron sharpens iron, the two of them are going to be the best thing for each other's careers and going up against each other every day in practice.

Yea, it would be cool to get the draft card because that's what got him on the Panthers and it says it was his first autograph after being picked, but if I was going to spend that kind of money on something signed by him, I'd rather it be something that is cooler to display, like a helmet or something. What I really want is to get some custom thing made that is half Arizona and half Panthers and get him to sign it with and inscription of each team's motto "Bear Down and Keep Pounding".

I see what you're saying, but Hunter is also just a freak of an athlete, and while it's impossible to quantify it in any way, there's a legitimate argument to be made that Hunter has the best conditioning of any player to ever get drafted in the NFL. Which if that was the case, it wouldn't really be fair to compare any player to him in that sense. Also, I'm not going to pretend I watched enough of Colorado to know, but maybe they took Hunter off the field at times to give him a play or two off as his breather. We really never did that with T-Mac, he was more or less out there for every offensive snap. So if the coaches were telling him to take those plays off as opposed to standing on the sideline for the breather, just so he's out there as a dummy distraction, you also can't really then fault him for it either, it's not a lack of effort, it's doing what your coaches are telling you to do so you can then be the impact player they need the other 95% of the plays.

I'll give you the Etienne pick to make up for Brooks, but I think you're looking at the T-Mac/XL picks wrong. Taking T-Mac wasn't "covering" the mistake of the other picks, it was "fixing" the XL pick. We took XL there because we expected him to be our new #1, but it just seems clear after his rookie year that he's never going to be THAT type of guy, even if he improves significantly. But he does seem like he has that high end #2 potential, and that's where the T-Mac pick makes it "fixing" the pick and not "covering" for a bad one. The T-Mac pick pushes all the other WR's down a peg in the pecking order, and in turn, that makes them all that much better as they'll now be going up against a DB one more peg down on their own pecking order. XL and Coker don't have have a 1/2 pairing potential, but they both could be at the very upper end of the 2's and 3's out there, it totally changes the equation for who they are for us.

Where's the jersey? I'm seeing the hat and draft card on the NFL Auctions site, but not the jersey (although they have a Bryce and XL one). I kinda want the draft card to be honest, but wow, it's already at $460 with 2 weeks to go. EDIT: Oh I found the jersey, it just wasn't showing up when you sort by Panthers stuff for seam reason, it's already at $850, that thing is going to be WAY more than I could ever justify, especially considering it's not even his number and it says "Panthers" on the back instead of his name, no thanks.

So THAT'S why they took my guy They knew they had at least 1 sucker out there like myself who might not be able to be patient enough for them to sell the better version so they just go out and get this one now, they saw me coming from a mile away. LOL

I like to look at it as we have our offensive skill positions of the future set in place, IF they pan out like we think/expect them to, as we won't need to address those positions (outside of backups) for at least 5 years pending cap issues. QB: Bryce RB: Chuba/Brooks/Etienne WR: T-Mac/XL/Coker TE: Sanders If these guys become the players we think they can become, putting aside being able to find a way to afford them all, that grouping has potential to be one of the best offensive groupings in the league in 3 years from now. Yea, it all hinges on Bryce becoming that guy, but there is a crazy amount of potential in that group, and Chuba at 4 years of experience is the vet by a country mile as even Bryce is the only one there with more than 1 year of experience and he only has 2 himself.

There will be times you think the pass is going to go way over his head or wide and he'll have no chance to get there and then he'll just do his Inspector Gadget thing and use his go go gadget arms to extend out there to pluck the ball out of nowhere

Yep, even if you put aside any discussion about what you think about him as a player or how good he'll be, the one thing that is a 100% certainty is that he's going to make some plays that just drop your jaw and question how he did what we just saw. This is interesting as it was something I'd never even thought/heard of until he was walking on stage after we took him. One of the analysts on NFL Network brought it up saying something like, "I don't agree with this idea, but I know a lot of college coaches tell the star WRs to purposefully take plays off when they know it's not coming to them" It was interesting because the way he said it, almost sounded like he's heard that it was something the Arizona coaches would tell T-Mac to do. Which on a team like ours last year, actually makes a ton of sense, because we had NOBODY else who the defense had to worry about. So instead of taking him off the field to give him a breather, just throw him out there on the far side of the field as a dummy to keep the defense's attention and then run a play in the other direction. You're right, he isn't "as quick" as Evans, because he's quicker. Sure, Evans does use his body better than T-Mac does, but T-Mac is a better athlete with more wiggle to his game and better at making a defender miss whereas Evans is just more likely to run through you. And your edit here is basically just an add on to my above comment, as personally, I've used the AJ Green comp for him ever since his first game for us at Arizona, it was always who I saw in his game. He has that fluidity that Green had to him, and at their size it stands out. Actually saw another comp last night that I hadn't seen before, and while I'll admit it's been YEARS since I've seen any film of him, my immediate reaction was, "oh wow, that might be a real solid comp for style of play" And that was of Plaxico Burress. I'd like to see T-Mac have a better overall career than Plax had (especially off the field), but from what I remember about his game, the comp for body/style of play actually seems pretty solid

Ugh, I didn't even realize until today that they only versions they have for T-Mac right now are the ones where everything is heat pressed on, not the "fake stitched" versions you guys are talking about here. I've always hated those fully screen pressed ones, they just seem cheat and crappy to me, and even though that next step up is still not the best, they at least feel like more of a real jersey to me and is worth the extra 35 bucks to get them. But of course they don't sell them in that one yet, which is weird, if they're all still "pre-orders" anyways, why aren't they offering the more expensive version to steal even more money from the rubes out there like myself who just can't help themselves?!?!?

Those aint no T-Rex arms......

Also remember that essentially Derrick Brown is an offseason addition to the defense too, that’s not insignificant when we’re talking about improving the defense from last year.

If we win the conference and it's not because of injuries in TB or Penix being a dud, then it means Bryce is in the MVP discussion and if that happens, then T-Mac probably had one of the best rookie seasons for a WR ever. Because this defense has added some nice potential pieces, but it's nowhere near ready to compete at a level to win the South this year unless the offense just goes nuts as one of the highest scoring teams in the league with Bryce doing the Mahomes thing and winning close late games on a weekly basis. So sure, I'm in. I'm proven right and my guy looks like the next big thing and I'm proven wrong and Bryce is also the real deal and we're set up with an elite QB-WR combo for the next decade.

The final spot has to be between Renfrow and Moore and pending how he looks after the year off, I might lean Renfrow. We now have our offense of the future in place if they pan out, this season has one main goal and it's expediting the growth of this very young group of skill position players. Chuba, Rico, and Tremble have each played 4 seasons (all the others are 2 or less) and are the most experienced skill position players on the team other than Dalton, Thielen, Moore, and now Renfrow. With Moore and Renfrow then being cut at the expense of one of those UDFA's if we kept one. Having Dalton and Thielen as the only two skill position players on the active roster with more than 4 years of experience, and only 3 others with more than 2, doesn't seem smart. We don't need more lottery tickets, coaches can only do/teach so much, we need vets for these guys to learn from so we get the best out of them and have our offense for hopefully the next 5-8 years in place pending being able to afford them all.

Exactly, hence the real question in the OP, does anyone know if they've started selling them in Charlotte this weekend or even today, like at the team store? If they have, then the online orders probably would be going out in a few weeks. I'd rather not order it now and it still take a few months and by then I could have got the blue one that I prefer instead. But if the blacks are going out soon, then I want to get that now, I'm too excited still, hahaha. I was going to do the authentic, but saw they're like $400 now (what the hell?!?!), so figure I'll wait on that one for a few years as I do think we'll get new uniforms sooner than later and will do the authentic then.