tukafan21

Of the regular starting QB's since 2000, there might be an argument to be made that Stafford and Rodgers were the two biggest arms in the league during that time. I'm sure there are others that belong in the conversation, and they might not actually be 1-2, but I don't think either would fall out of the Top 5 strongest arms during that time. (admittedly, this is also just a pure gut feel without trying to think back through all the starting QB's during that time frame, but I don't think it's all that off base either)

Even beyond Rodgers and Stafford being HOF level players, the two of them (and Flacco) always ranked near (or at) the top of the list for arm strength throughout their careers, they all had cannons. Dalton didn't have a noodle arm, but he never had an arm like those 3, so even if they've diminished over age, so did Dalton.

Oh, and to add to this... What makes this even crazier is that when you include all those backups, odds are, it still doesn't even give him an "average arm strength" in the NFL. As a lot of NFL backups actually have very strong arms, it's the rest of their game, such as mental side or accuracy, as to why they aren't a starter. It's their strong arm that keeps them on rosters as it makes them good practice squad QB's and then if the starter goes down, at least they have someone who can still sling the rock physically at an NFL level, even if their accuracy and decision making isn't up to par.

So you want to compare Bryce's arm to the backup and 3rd string QB's in the league while using that basis for why he can be a successful starting QB in this league? Do you not realize how crazy that is to say? We're not debating our backup QB's arm strength, we're talking about the starting QB and #1 overall pick. You don't compare that to backups and practice squad 3rd string QB's. Trying to say "average" means including those is quite literally one of the most nonsensical stances I've ever heard when debating an athletes merits. It's like trying to compare a starting NBA SG's 3 point shooting to every player in the league, going to the 15 man deep rosters of guys who bounce around in the G-League, and saying that player is an "average 3 point shooter" for someone who starts and plays 30 minutes a game. Because sure, by definition, that player likely would be an "average 3 point shooter" when you're adding in the skills of backup forwards and the like. But in no world is that same player an actual average 3 point shooter for an NBA starter.

And point being? I've never one time said he was a good QB or would help us win games, in fact, I've quite literally said he costs his teams games. But none of that means anything when I've lobbied for him solely due to his arm strength and his fearlessness in throwing any pass (which is also what makes him a bad actual QB), as those things will 100% help expedite the improvement of all of our pass catchers.

JFC To begin with, how far someone can throw the ball in college doesn’t equate to NFL arm strength. Beyond that, what you are REALLY trying to argue here is that he has an adequate arm strength to get by in the NFL. Which is an entirely different argument than “average arm strength” I still strongly disagree about him having adequate arm strength to succeed, he’s proven he can’t drive the ball anything further than 20 yards (AGAIN… do NOT respond to that by talking about how far he can throw it when perfectly balanced, they are two completely and separate things). The fact remains that you can’t name 10+ current NFL starters that he has a stronger arm than, which is what you’d need to do to say he has an “average or slightly below average arm strength” like you claim. There are a lot of actual debatable things in regards to Bryce, but his pure arm strength and where it ranks to the rest of starting QB’s just flat out isn’t one of them, at all, period.

Do you know what "average" means? It means that among the 32 starting QB's, you're saying he is somewhere around the 16th strongest arm. Do you not realize how bat poo crazy that is? Please, tell me even 5 starting QB's who have a weaker arm than he does? And I'm not talking about having perfect balance and able to perfectly step into a throw where you're chucking it as far downfield as possible. I'm talking about throwing ropes on a line 30 yards downfield. There is no world where he is remotely close to "average" in comparison to the rest of the starting QB's in this league. Just because he was able to throw the ball 60 yards in the air in college, when perfectly balanced, doesn't mean he has an "average NFL arm", that's literal crazy talk. If a non-biased party were to rank the starting QB's solely on arm strength, from 1-32, there is no chance he is anything higher on the list than maybe 27 or 28, and I honestly think he has a better shot at being #32 than even #28, hell, change 28 to 30 and I still think it's an accurate statement.

Canales doesn't have us at 4-3, I sincerely think we're 4-3 in spite of the job Canales has done so far. We're 4-3 because we've played the 2 worst teams in the NFL, the worst defense in the NFL while they were missing their best offensive player, and an epically embarrassing performance by the Falcons. You could make an argument that with better coaching, we should actually be 6-1 right now and I don't think that would be hard to justify.

You're right, his stats somehow are even better than how he actually looks when watching the games, which is remarkable given how poor his stats are. That's the thing, we're 7 games into T-Mac's career and even though people see some things he needs to improve upon, he's had numerous plays already in just 7 games where you can look at him and say, "this kid has star potential" Bryce was the #1 overall pick who 2.5 years into his career, has what, MAYBE 5 plays that make you say "he could be an average to above average QB in this league" Most QB's have that in the first month of their rookie season, he just flat out doesn't pass the ye test even before you dig into his paltry stats. Dart already has more plays in his 3 starts that make you think he has franchise QB potential than Bryce has in his entire career.

Bryce hasn't done a single thing to prove he deserves to have his option picked up. I'd have less of an issue with us declining the option and bringing him back as the starter next year than I would have us picking up that option, as that means he's on our cap books for the next 2 years instead of 1, even if he's cut before year 5. Tua threw for 3,500 yards with a 25-8 TD-INT ratio in just 13 starts the year before they picked up his option, and then threw for over 4,600 yards before they gave him his extension. Kyler threw for 3,722, 3,971, and 3,787 in 16, 16, and 14 games (while rushing for 544, 819, and 423 in those seasons) before they picked up his option and then signed him to an extension before year 4. Jones threw for 3,200 yards with a 3-1 TD-INT ratio with another 700 yards and 7 TDs rushing in year 4 before they signed him to his extension. Bryce has thrown for 2,877 and 2,400 yards in 16 and 12 starts his two seasons, while being on pace for 3,128 yards in a 17 game season so far this year. The closest comparison to any of them was Jones, who while he's turned it around this year, is someone I think everyone can agree was not a player who deserved that extension after that season. If people think those other QB's having their options picked up and/or given extensions were a mistake, in what world can you look at what Bryce has done and make any rational argument for him even being brought back as our starter next year, let alone also picking up his option that would cost us about $27 million fully guaranteed.

Bryce isn't an NFL QB, period. XL, Coker, and Sanders will have gone 2 years without getting NFL level passes thrown their way in games. T-Mac, Horn Jr, and Evans will have gone their rookie seasons without getting NFL level passes. If you don't think that stunts their growth, then I'm not sure what else to say, becuase it just does. They're going full season(s) of their career without the opportunity to catch the type of passes they're going to be expected to catch the rest of their careers when we get a real life NFL QB back there for them. I think there is a real argument to make that as good as Moore has been, he still hasn't reached his potential due to his QB play.

Well first things first, the 5th year option isn't something that "may" get decided this offseason, it WILL get decided this offseason because it has to, this is when they have to pick it up or not. It's how you get into a Daniel Jones situation, where you decline the option, then he stumbles into a decent season so you extend him, just for him to revert back to his old form right away. Bryce getting another year is far less certain than you seem to think, namely because of that 5th year option decision this offseason. We traded the farm for the pick and then took Bryce #1 overall. If you don't pick up the option, it's a hard sell for the players and fan base to bring him back as the starter next year. And because of the trade and taking him #1 overall, it's equally as hard to bring in a true competition for him in camp, because if he loses, you can't keep your #1 overall pick around as a backup. The problem is this injury now gives them the cover to make some dumb decisions

He's a backup because he constantly loses games for his teams with his turnovers. I don't want him for what he can do and a QB, I want him because of what he can do for our WRs and TEs. Bryce started 12 games last year and had 2,400 yards passing with 15 TDs. Jameis started 7 games last year and had 2,120 yards passing with 13 TDs. Bryce has started 7 games this year and has 1,288 yards passing with 11 TDs. If you don't see what Jameis, even with all his faults, can bring to this team because of his very live arm, then you're fooling yourself or just don't want to see it.

Most backup players you didn't draft in the first round and/or are expecting them to be your long term starters. You need in game reps to grow your game and these guys aren't getting NFL level in game reps with Bryce at QB, I don't know how anyone can honestly think we aren't stunting their growth so far. And yes, I agree some of XL's issues are things he needs to work out on his own to improve his catching and mental side of the game, but he still needs a real life NFL QB throwing him the ball or he'll never improve, no matter what he does on his own.

I agree with this and said as much in the "QB trade" thread last night. However, I think Jameis is the one exception to this rule, especially if we can get him for a 5th or later pick TWO drafts from now. To me, that cost is MORE than worth the return we'll get in the form of expediting the growth of our pass catchers. But literally any other available backup QB in the league and anything other than a pick TWO drafts from now, and I probably then balk at a trade like that.

These guys aren't getting passes beyond 15 yards that are at a true NFL level quality of a throw, that's really not even debatable, it's just a fact with what Bryce is able (or not able) to do. If you don't think that is stunting their growth, then I don't know what else to say, because it 100% is. Even more so with someone like XL since he was so raw when we got him anyways. Wasting 2 years of his development getting thrown balls that don't cut it at this level is without question stunting his growth. You also forget that WRs tend to be the type that get happier when they're getting thrown the ball more, especially downfield. So yes, while they might get frustrated by Jameis' turnovers, the increase in downfield passing will more than offset that to keep them happy.

Yep, exact same thing as last year, fans and the team will see the Wins, remember he "lead game winning drives" (despite him not even throwing a pass on some of those drives), and forget how he actually looked in those games and the paltry passing numbers he put up in them. Then they'll say "well we had a winning record before he got hurt and then the high ankle sprain affected his play the rest of the season and was the reason he struggled, so when he's healthy next year, he'll be great again" This has disaster written all over it

A QB throwing INT's has no bearing on the growth of his pass catchers, it just kills a team's chances of winning games. For all his problems as a QB, Jameis still has one of the strongest arms in the league and is also one of the most fearless throwers of the ball as well (which is part of his problem). Our WRs and TEs would get peppered with targets at all levels, something Bryce isn't able to do and I don't think Dalton necessarily has it left in him anymore either. THAT would 100% expedite their growth, there's no question about it.

2027 5th rounder for Jameis, time to pull the trigger on this one, we should have done it in the offseason anyways. He'll lose us games, but he's also one of the few QB's in the league who will be able to expedite the growth of T-Mac, XL, Coker, Horn Jr, Sanders, and Evans

So when he struggles after he comes back because he's still not 100%, the fans and team will make excuses for him because of that and it will be the reason we give him another year as our starting QB. Perfect. FML.

The real problem rotating Rico and Chuba is that they're more or less the same player, or at least the same type, they're both bruising physical runners, neither are the quick twitch elusive type. RB tandems work best/well when you have two stylistically different players, so when you rotate them, it provides a change in what the defense has to worry about. We have two Montgomery's but no Gibbs.

It's not about making Bryce look good, it's about the fear of Dalton making Bryce look bad. If Dalton goes out there and puts up 300 yards passing and is throwing the ball downfield with success, that in itself will be a REALLY bad look for Bryce, as that's something we're not able to do with him in there. Bryce is 10th in the league in passing attempts this year and has only 1 game over 199 yards this year, which only came because of the crazy prevent defense the Cardinals went to in the 2nd half of that game. I'll give Bryce credit, he's playing significantly better than he did pre-benching last season. However, if old man Dalton is able to step in there on one week's notice and is slinging the ball all around the park, how do you sell Bryce deserving to be the starter to the rest of the team or the fan base? That's why I'm saying the true Bryce believers are going to be afraid of Dalton looking good. If we look like a real life NFL offense in the year of 2025 (i.e. a real passing attack), it won't be a good look for Dalton or even Canales, it will be a bad look on Bryce.

But it's not the 55-60 yard passes where his arm strength issues are a problem, partially because we just flat out don't ever run those plays due to his lack of arm strength. It's the 25 yard downfield passes but to the boundary, so he has to throw the ball 40-45 air yards of distance. In the NFL, you need to drive those throws into those windows so it gets to the WR before any DB can get there to break it up. He flat out is unable to properly make that throw on an NFL level, like, at all. He's able to make those throws when they need to be a touch pass, i.e. the WR beat his defender, no safety help, and he needs to feather it in there for the WR to run under it for a sideline catch. But when there is a deep defender and he needs to drive the ball on a rope between the defender our WR has beat and the safety coming down from above, he just can't. And yes, a SMALL part of that is his footwork problems, but even when he has proper footwork, his arm isn't strong enough to make that throw in the way almost every single other starting QB is able to.

I think that's why they will be worried, as there is no reason for us to have a working passing game with Dalton in there, so if he does, selling people on Bryce becomes that much harder. It's not like bad QB's have good games out of nowhere, especially when it's a backup getting a start, it just happens sometimes and there's no reason it can't happen for Dalton, especially if the Bills focus on our run game and don't prep for him that much.

Any Bryce defender on the coaching staff or in the front office is going to be secretly rooting for us to get utterly destroyed if he is out for the game. The worst case scenario for any of them who still want to be starting Bryce is for it to be like when Dalton came in for him his rookie year. If he comes in and lights it up and we look like a real life NFL passing offense, it's going to be really tough to still sell Bryce to the fans or other players.