tukafan21

In what world are the Raiders the job that Ben Johnson has been waiting on? They have no QB and they're in a division with Mahomes/Reid, Herbert/Harbaugh, Nix/Payton, QB/HC combos. There really isn't anything attractive about that job right now

It's going to be very interesting to see where Darnold ends up next year. The teams who don't get their QB in the draft this year, might just decide to stick with whoever they have next year and say screw it, we're going for Manning. If you bring in Darnold, he's going to to be good enough to make sure you're not getting the #1 pick. So if you're the Raiders and you can't get one of the 2 QB's, do you just roll Aiden out there again next year instead of trying to go with someone like Darnold?

True, but I'm sure they could have added a spiking exception, not like they could add a screen one as it would be too ambiguous, hell, that play was technically meant to be a type of a screen play to Puka as is.

haha that's crazy I'm watching the Manningcast, so when they just switched over to showing people watching the game at that bar with the huge screen, I'm sure they told you what they were showing you on the main broadcast. But since I'm on the other, I legit thought hey were showing the view from a sideline box until they changed the screen to the end zone view, that place looks so cool and I really want to watch a game there sometime.

Too many screen passes that would create fumbles for, which no team is going to like the idea of and to vote in favor for to stop something like this happening. I can't remember the last time I've seen a play and just said it's not right that it should be called that way, think it's just going to be one of those one off weird things that there is no fix for.

100% agree, which is why my first post said I don't know how to feel about that one, haha. Not really sure what they even could do to change that in the future though. The play wasn't over, it absolutely was a pass attempt and there was a player in the area. There's no way to make a rule that says "if you're clearly being sacked, you can't flip the ball behind you at the feet of a receiver for an incompletion, it will be called intentional grounding in this specifically odd instance" For as dumb of a play as it was by Stafford, in a way it was also smart, he saw Puka and knew all he had to do was flick the ball at the ground to get an incompletion. The dumb part was trusting the refs to call it correctly, but beyond that, the only risk was accidentally throwing it backwards which he probably knew he wasn't going to do.

totally agree that it was beyond stupid, but the last thing it could have been was intentional grounding, it landed like a yard away from Puka's feet. If it was going to be an incorrect call in the end, I'd have been fine with it being called a fumble or a sack as "in the grasp" before it being called intentional grounding, and by the rules, it was actually an incomplete pass.

did they? or did the rule book? It was a stupid play, absolutely should have just ate the sack, but if you're going by the definitions of rules in the book, he made a pass attempt in the area of a WR, no matter how ridiculous it looked.

Oh they 100% can't call intentional grounding, from the back angle you can see it really wasn't all that far from Puka's feet, it was never going to be completed, but by definition, there clearly was a receiver in the area.

Honestly not sure what to think about that call. In the end, I do think it was the correct call by definition of the rule, because he absolutely did that on purpose and from the back angle, you can see he was trying to get it to Puka, even if it was never going to be completed. But that really shouldn't be allowed to be an incomplete pass, just everything about that should have been if not a fumble, a sack or something, just feels wrong to be an incomplete pass.

I think he'll still strongly consider the Jags because they have a QB for him to work with (maybe the Bears too, but I just don't think he wants to deal with that franchise and be in such a tough division). If he doesn't go down to Jacksonville though, I think he waits until next offseason to try and go to wherever gets the #1 pick so he can draft Arch

Even if he has a borderline pro bowl season next year, there would still be at minimum 10 QB's out there that teams wouldn't even pick up the phone if we called to offer a swap. Saying there are only 4 QB's you'd trade Bryce for is the definition of the most homer take I've ever seen.

LOL this is literally the most delusional post I've ever seen on a sports message board before. There are only 4 QB's in the NFL that you'd trade Bryce Young for right now?!?!?!?! Literally batshit crazy right there, absolutely utterly insane. Hell, I'm even on record as saying I don't think Daniels will be a starting QB 5 years from now because of his style of play and I think he's going to get hurt, so I'd accept you not trading for him on that thought, but if you remove the injury concern, there is no possible reason for sticking with Bryce over him, none at all. Even if you wanted to pick a few of those QB's you wouldn't trade him for, I'd accept that as an acceptable response, even if one I'd disagree with. But if you called up any of the teams of the other QB's you listed as maybes or too early to tell and offered them a swap, they wouldn't even bother laughing at you before hanging up the phone. Herbert just had 3,900 yards on 66% completion with 23 TDs, 3 INTs, another 300 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... but you wouldn't trade Bryce freaking Young for him because he had a bad playoff game?!?!?! That alone is the most disqualifying statement possible for your judgement of players, just crazy. And that's just touching on the other players, but then you say Bryce has looked "decent" over the last 10 games, which in itself, is more exaggeration based on his previous play than an accurate statement in a vacuum. Over those 10 games he had 3 games over 225 yards passing and not a single game of 300, with only 3 games over 62% completion as well. It's not like he was lighting it up, he was just playing serviceable game management QB play until the final game of the season. If you want to talk about the hope of building on that, I can't fault you. But if you want to use those 10 games to say you wouldn't trade him for anyone but FOUR other QB's in the league right now and you're just fooling yourself.

Who of these guys are you taking Bryce over (as players only, contracts don't matter for the discussion since it's just who is better than the other)? Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Goff, Love, Daniels, Purdy, Murray, Dak, Maye, Nix, Lawrence, Baker, Tua, Stroud, and Caleb? As that's 19 QB's right there and there is no chance I'm taking Bryce over any of them over the next 5 seasons. Then factor in the older guys who are still better than Bryce right now like Stafford, Geno, Wilson. Add in the younger unproven guys who very well still might be better like Penix or McCarthy, and you might be able to even add Darnold to that list. Or even Richardson who while he's struggled, his physical abilities still give him a higher potential ceiling if he figures it out. Now add in any rookies who will come in over the next 2-3 years (I'd take Arch over Bryce right now at a minimum). Are you really going to say you think he has the potential to be a Top 20 QB over the next 5 years when you look at that list? I just don't see how he's going to be better than those guys (health aside of course as it's always an unknown). And this isn't me saying I think all these guys are elite SB caliber QB's, because a lot of them clearly aren't, they're just better than Bryce, and that's my point in all of this. I just don't see Bryce as ever being THAT kinda guy.

I still think Horn can be an all pro caliber CB if he stays healthy, but yea, I'm doing that trade without a second thought

I've never once claimed T-Mac is already a Top 5 WR, what I've said is that he's going to be considered that by the time he's ready for his 2nd contract. And yea, I think they are pretty black and white because what I think is keeping him from even having a chance at being an elite QB is the same thing I said my problem with him before we ever drafted him, his physical limitations will always limit what his upside can be. Which his rookie year, no matter how bad the situation was, does nothing to change his physical issues at this level.

He was 20th with the only QB’s ahead of him who aren’t likely still starters 5 years from now being Stafford, Jameis, and maybe Darnold. Behind him was Dak’s injury shortened season, Caleb’s rookie year, and Stroud’s down sophomore season, all of whom I’d easily take over Bryce (Dak’s contract aside). It also doesn’t include Penix or McCarthy, not to mention any other QB’s to enter the league in the next couple of years. If you want to count that as Bryce being a top 20 QB, so be it, but he’s not going to be one over the next 5 year time period.

Nah, Allen has made his money and fell off a cliff this year, I think he chases a ring and takes a cheap deal to go to a contender than try to make a little more money being a #1 for a bad team like us. But I could see us doing it with someone like Amari Cooper who is 3 years younger and might want one last pay day.

I'm not sure there are any actual Panthers fans that WANT Bryce to fail or not play well. I'm as anti-Bryce as they come on this board, and I don't want him to fail. I just have no faith in him ever being able to be the type of QB who is going to raise the level of play from his teammates and drag them to wins and SB contention. And because of that, as long as he's our starting QB, our ceiling as a team will always be limited. Yes, I'll admit that this season he changed my mind from saying he should already be out of the league to thinking he actually could be a below average game manager starting QB in this league. But outside of Week 18, this turnaround from him still had him putting up well below average stats, it was just better than it was before, but it was nowhere near great. So no, I just don't think he can ever be even a Top 20 QB in this league, who can be the reason you win games on a consistent basis. Saying that doesn't mean I want him to fail, it's just calling it like I see it. Do I hope I'm wrong and he turns into the next Drew Brees? Of course, but to say I think it will happen would just be lying.

Just because it was a priority last season, doesn't mean the job is finished, especially when Bryce realistically has one season to prove he can be the guy or if we have to replace him. "Winning games while we have Bryce on a rookie deal" is pretty much meaningless right now as no matter what we do this offseason, we're not fixing all of our holes and being able to contend this year anyways. So again, I go back to the #1 goal of the 2025 season, find out if Bryce is our long term QB solution or not. Best way to do that, is you get him a #1 WR and then it's on him to sink or swim as you have a fully built offense at his disposal. And that's something we just don't have for him with a WR room of XL, Thielen, and Coker. And again, nobody is saying there is only one priority. Nobody is saying "we need a WR, screw everything else" I think it's just their way of saying they know finding out what Bryce can be is more important than fixing the defense, as it should be. Any team's #1 goal should always be to figure out their long term QB solution, if you have it you can have a different #1 goal, but if you don't, that's it.

And I still think all the Wilson talk is moot anyways. He hates Rodgers, I don't think Rodgers is going to be back with the Jets, hence I don't think Wilson asks for or is traded.

Yea, spend it on the defense on proven commodities in free agency. Trading away 8 and using cap for that same offensive asset is only going to compound our defensive issues. I'd rather take the chance on an unproven commodity in Burden and be able to add other draft assets and use all our cap on the defense, than get Wilson and lesser defensive pieces. I love the idea of Wilson, I just hate the thought of 8 or any future 1st being involved in getting him as we're not a WR away from contending.

The problem with that is you then have to give him the deal this offseason, which will require using some of our cap room, which then hurts the defense even more as that's where we should be spending it. Trade 8 back to the 12-15ish range, maybe get to pick up a 1st next year if someone is desperate, if not maybe say a 2nd this year and a couple 3/4's or a future 2nd feels about right to do that move. Then you draft Burden and use the extra 2nd on another defensive player, all while not using up additional cap on Wilson's extension and that now going to the defense as well. Rookie contracts are so important for rebuilding teams, so trading 1sts for vets is generally not the best idea for teams in our position, it's for contenders looking for the final piece to a SB puzzle. Also, I think the Jets are going to want additional picks to a 1st in a trade for Wilson, not adding good picks back in themselves.

I think people are reading into it wrong, especially the Bryce believers. Because in reality it's not "our #1 priority this offseason is to get a WR" as much as it's "our #1 priority this offseason is to make sure Bryce succeeds" Which realistically should 100% be the priority over the defense. We're at a fork in the road right now, if you're going the way that says Bryce is the QB of this team for the future, making sure he develops is WAAAYYYY more important than the defense this offseason. As if Bryce doesn't build on this year, he's gone, 2025 will be his last year as the Panthers QB, no doubt about it. So, which is it? Our #1 priority this offseason is improving the defense or building up Bryce? I'm an openly avid anti-Bryce guy, but even I know the answer to that is building him up. If you're going that route with him, you gotta try and support him at all (reasonable) costs for this next season. And if he then bombs, you have a ready built offense for the rookie or FA QB you bring in, we'd be the Falcons of last offseason, very attractive because of all the weapons.

Oh 100%, to not call would be not doing your job But there's no chance they're trading him for anything less than a 1st, possibly even more than just a single 1st. At that point is where you just have to say thanks but no thanks, we're just not in the position to be trading 1st round picks for players we have to then give a big contract to. I also don't know if they'll even trade him if they dump Rodgers, as that's the relationship that seems to have soured Wilson at the moment.