tukafan21

Our draft grades from all the experts will come down to where they viewed T-Mac, because we really did find a lot of useful players the rest of the draft. The analysts who loved T-Mac will end up giving us A’s (like PFF) and the ones who didn’t with have us much lower because they’ll have felt we should have gone defense (like Kiper)

My post has nothing to do with Moore playing, it’s just about having more then 1 WR on the team that has more than 1 season of experience. I’m sure Thielen is a great mentor, but it would be hard to mentor 5-6 other WRs all season by himself.

Here's the article, obviously about Arizona, but has a lot that speaks to who T-Mac is as a player and person https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/40918248/arizona-noah-fifita-aiming-big-12-championship-2024

Was a crazy day today for me with the Wrexham game starting just into the 4th Round and then them clinching promotion for the 3rd straight year. So between all that celebrating today and just trying to follow the rest of our draft, I purposefully stayed out of this thread all day to give it a good read through later, lol Here's some responses to some of the things said today, sorry, it's a bit lengthy, but I've gone like 24 hours without getting to talk T-Mac, I was having withdrawals, hahaha. All of this The new staff was not good this past year, to the point that the fan base were calling for heads to roll just a few weeks into the season, it was pretty ugly on the Arizona boards. The offensive play calling was pretty atrocious as well, and as mentioned here, Fifita took a massive step back this year and was constantly missing T-Mac when he got open and thus the bad/late throws were also causing some of the contested catches he had to make. Plus like you said, the entire offense was just to throw to T-Mac no matter what the coverage because we had no other receiving weapons. Teams were constantly double teaming him directly off the snap and it was very rare for there to not be a safety already over the top on him before every snap too. In a way, I'm actually surprised he put up the stats that he did, everything was stacked against him and he still put up 1,300+ yards. I'm actually not sure it has been mentioned, as it was something I never brought up this past year in talking about him on purpose, I didn't want it to sound like I was making any excuses for him, and I don't remember seeing others talk about it as I might have then jumped in too. He missed all of fall camp and only started practicing days before the season opener and at least publicly, it wasn't certain he'd even play the first game, which of course he then went out and put up 300 yards lol. He also tweaked his ankle at one point about 5-6 weeks into the season. Came out for a play or two to get checked, then came back in and kept playing but was a step or two slow the rest of the game but seemed mostly fine the rest of the year. In fact, for a few weeks after that, there was a vocal portion of the fan base that were hoping he'd just shut it down for the season because how bad the offense was and felt he was hurting his draft stock and risking injury at the same time. But as everyone also knew, he wasn't going to quit on his teammates, in particular his QB in their last year together (will get to that later) I do think the original injury and lack of fall camp did keep him a half step slower than the year before at times, but it didn't stop him from still being an All American. This is also another reason T-Mac is a great fit with Bryce, once they get their chemistry down, the two are going to thrive on off script plays. T-Mac and Arizona's QB had played together since the 8th grade and were best friends, they basically shared a brain on the football field and it showed. It's given him so much experience working off script, while finding and sitting in the holes in coverage to give his QB a big target as they scramble. Yep, smart, swagger, but also a GREAT teammate. When Arizona's coaches left after 2023 season, the assumption was that T-Mac, Fifita, and our top LB (who all went to the same HS together, and with Mason Graham too) were going to follow them to Washington. In fact, T-Mac was a QB until 8th grade and switched to WR only because of Fifita, he's thrown a TD pass for us too, so he can be used in gadget plays. The day after we hired the new coach, he invited any players to come and talk football in his office, T-Mac and Fifita organized a large group and they talked with him for 2 hours. When it was done, all the players left but T-Mac and Fifita stayed back and basically told the coach they were staying and were going to keep the team together as much as they could and they did, we only lost a few players (too bad the new coaches sucked lol). Both of them also then turned down some NIL money and told them to use it to give to other players on the team to help keep as much of it together. There's a good ESPN article about this a while back, maybe I'll try to find it. But THIS is the type of kid you want to build around, he's the full package and it's why I never missed a chance to let you guys know he was always the player we should have been targeting.

If Moore is cut, we need to bring in another vet to replace him. Right now our top 7 in the WR room is Rookie, Rookie, UDFA Rookie, 2nd Year, 2nd Year, Moore, and Thielen. Not that I think Moore the player is someone we can't lose necessarily, but you need more than just Thielen in that WR room who has been in the league for more than a season to be able to help guide all the young guys. It's why I was hoping to sign a vet as that shifty slot WR instead of taking Horn Jr, but I don't hate the tape I see on the kid and he has some potential and grit to his game, so I'm not upset at taking him.

I don't think they want to trade XL and I don't think a trade like this would be "giving up on him" either. I do think he still has a lot of potential, but Williams is a better WR with a higher ceiling. If you're just asking me which of the two players I'd rather have in a hypothetical swap, then yea, I'm keeping XL because of the contract and you don't have the Williams character issues. But if you're asking me who would give Bryce the best ability to succeed next year as our #2 to T-Mac, XL or Williams, I'd have to say Williams. So if a trade like the one I put out there would be possible, to where we'd get their 1st rounder out of it, then yea, I think it's worth a discussion.

I get that, but that doesn't change that I still don't love giving 200k+ guaranteed to an UDFA WR who if they make the squad, will be a 7th WR who only returns punts when part of the selling point of our 4th round pick was that they were also going to be our new returner, didn't realize that maybe meant only kick-offs and then we'd go do this for a new PR. None of it is the decisions in a vacuum, it's the totality of them. If Horn Jr also could be a KR, then maybe we should have used that 4th on something else, like a CB that would have possibly been more useful for us this year and found a 3rd RB in another way. I'm not going to let it get me down as I love our draft on the whole, and getting one of the top Kicker's right after the draft too was actually maybe the best thing we did today. But that's just a big guarantee for a player who'd be our 7th WR with no path to WR snaps like Coker last year.

haha I edited mine while you were responding I see. Need Moore over any UDFA in that room as it's already going to have two rookies and two in their 2nd year, Thielen can't do all the mentoring on his own to the whole room. And would be surprised if we could get a player we drafted in the 6th and seem to like, to get through waivers and onto a PS, so if that was what we were going to try to do, should have just drafted Jacolby instead.

But we already have T-Mac, XL, Thielen, Coker, Moore and now Horn Jr. If we're keeping a 7th WR on the roster to be a return man, they better be handling both KR and PR duties or it's not worth the roster spot. The only other option would be to cut Horn Jr (which would be weird because if that's the case, why not just draft Jacolby instead) or Moore, and with how young this WR room is, I'd much rather have Moore than an UDFA regardless of on the field roles. Or we just gave 200k+ to a guy we're going to cut in a few months, which would be dumb too.

The Lions wanted to trade Jameson Williams before the draft and then they took a WR in the 3rd too, and they could use pass rush help. We don't need him now that we took T-Mac, but this is such a make or break year for Bryce that I'm wondering if we do something either really stupid or really smart, I honestly can't even tell if I like the idea or not. But we trade them Clowney, XL, and our 2nd or 3rd next year for Williams and their 1st next year. I don't love giving up XL's rookie contract while taking on a player going into their 4th year of a 1st round contract and some character issues. But if we can get that 1st rounder back in the deal, getting a player with Williams' game breaking ability and an existing great history with Bryce, it has me wondering if there is something to that. Worst case scenario, he crushes it this year and it prices us out from re-signing him and we tag and trade him (if no 5th year exercised or he holds out for a contract) and then use the 1st from the Lions or Williams trade to draft another WR if Coker isn't ready to be a #2. Best case scenario he crushes it and we re-sign him and have a stupid WR combo of T-Mac and Williams for the foreseeable future. If losing out on XL's rookie controlled contract and maybe needing to replace Williams again in a year (when we'd have multiple Firsts too) is the cost of unlocking Bryce's potential thanks to their connection, that seems like a risk worth at least talking about, no?

Very much the same for me too. Granted, my reason for being pumped again is rather specific of course. But these last few days, I've had that Panthers tingle back myself. I'm an Arizona Basketball fan first and foremost, no team will ever knock them off that pedestal. But the last couple of years, my increasing love of Wrexham had be caring a lot more about them than the Panthers. And it wasn't just because we were bad, we've been bad before and I hadn't felt that way. It was the decisions we've made as a franchise and just feeling like a rudderless ship that was hard to put much emotional capacity towards what felt like a lost cause. These last two offseasons have me feeling way better about the direction of the franchise, and while I'm still not a Bryce believer yet, I do still very much hope he proves me wrong and will be rooting for him to do so and really set us up to take things to the next level in 2026 once we can get a few more key pieces next year too. But yea, taking the best player in my school's history, it has me more than reinvigorated, genuinely the most excited I've been as a Panthers fan, and I joined the bus at the start.

It's not about not having competition. But part of the appeal of drafting Etienne was that he was going to be both our 3rd back and our returner, if he's doing both of those, that's a much better use of that draft pick than if he's just going to be our 3rd back, who wouldn't get many snaps as long as Chuba and Rico stay healthy. So giving this kind of guarantee to a guy who would most likely make the team as a returner, makes me feel a little different about the Etienne pick now. Before he was a guy who would have played a key role for us this year, but now looks like he could be relegated to a back up option in case of injuries only.

But I thought that's why we took that particular RB, because he'd also be a returner for us. A signing bonus like this means they expect him to make the final roster, just like Coker last year. If they already think he's making the roster as a returner, I'm looking at that Etienne pick very differently now.

For me it's less about them being ready to play every down and needing breathers as much as they both have real potential, but one of the best ways to help them reach said potential isn't as much through proper coaching, but having some seasoned vets in the locker room at their position for them to learn from. We can't cut them both, we have to keep at least one of them to be that mentor for these guys. Whichever one they feel is better suited for that (I don't know their locker room personalities to say so), that's the one you keep, cut the other or the savings and to open up snaps for the rookies to take.

Smart move for the Titans, even if he doesn't make the team, it's going to be someone that will help make Ward comfortable for the next few months, well played Titans, well played.

And if either of them go down during camp, having the 4th or 5th best Center prospect in even a down class would be a nice backup option. We might not find our long term solution, but just feels like there has to be some options out there that are worth bringing in considering it is the weakest spot of our line and we have no long term solution.

Turned over the top of it too

I won't even begin to pretend I have any idea about undrafted Centers lol. I just see that 3 were taken in the draft and have a hard time believing there isn't some solid options out there at the position.

That seems like a huge guarantee for a player that at first glance at scouting reports, sounds very similar to the WR we took late in the actual draft, weird.

Tetairoa McMillan: A++++++++++ The rest doesn't mater LOL (in all seriousness though, I do love the draft on the whole, we got our #1 WR, two edge rushers with legit potential, and every other pick I can actually see making the team an earning some snaps this year, which feels pretty rare for our drafts. Was a darn near perfect draft given the needs and picks we had.)

Yup, you could say that about Arizona's QB too, T-Mac made a lot of catches that he had no business making because of poor throws.

lol, I can't help but read this and not even think about how that's a nice thing to hear about the new player we just drafted, but see it as a knock on Shedeur

I still want a Center, with only 3 taken so far, there just has to be some out there that have legitimate potential I'd imagine.

Would rather not give another team the chance to do the same thing, just draft the guy you like and he's ours without any fight. The majority of 7th round picks don't end up making the roster anyways, so using a future 7th to get one right now and be able to get a Top 5 Center prospect seems like a way better use of that future 7th (or even 6th) than taking say a DT or CB with that pick next year that best case scenario is going to be a practice squad guy for us next year.

Trade back into the end of the draft so we can take a Center? Only have been 3 drafted so far, so got to be someone out there that we like, right? At this point in the draft, if there is someone you really like, I am never against trading a future 7th to go get them before UDFA hits. Especially as there are always a couple teams at this point in the draft who will make that trade because they already know they don't have the roster spots for all these picks and will take the future draft asset instead.