WhoKnows

He made one pro bowl. He was not elite IMHO. You aren’t the very best in your era and not make an all pro team. Lewis was a 12 time pro bowler and 7 time all-pro. Luke made the all-pro team every year of his career. There are lots of guys who have had great SB games. Kong Ealy was our best guy in the last SB. To be elite and best of an era, you’d be considered borderline HOF, i.e. next tier. 1 pro bowl isn’t close to either of those. He was very good and had injury issues but he wasn’t elite in my book.

I agree with you. The leverage was lost the day after we turned down the trade. I always said that I could have accepted the extension but it should have been done at the time of the trade. Hey Burns, this is the extension we are good with and if he balks, you take a crazy valued trade. Turning down the trade and getting fired a year later and still not being able to sign Burns is why Fitterer won’t be a GM again. I was replying to someone who said we had to make the trade that day to afford the two guards. If that was true and we didn’t restructure Moton, which easily could have covered year 1 cap space, then Dan made a bad move.

What? You guys are crazy. Just because he made trades doesn’t mean he was good at them. It’s almost like the Stockholm syndrome in here. Who won the Young trade? Who won the Darnold trade? Who won the CJ Henderson trade? Who won the Burns trade (Rams)? Who won the CMC trade? Please point to where he turned a 5th into a 3rd. All I saw was that we dropped down and when we moved up we usually lost a bit of value.

Sorry, but Fitterer was a horrible GM and I’d put him up for the worst GM ever. What single thing made you think he was a smart football guy? I’d say he has to be the worst talent evaluator ever. Gettleman and Hurney ran circles around him. If he’s trying to make people happy, it’s because he isn’t a smart football guy who can make good decisions.

Lots of first round picks weren’t elite. Sorry, but Morgan never got to Luke’s level. We drafted DeAngelo and Stewart in the 1st and they were good, not elite. I didn’t say he was bad just not elite. We tend to overrate our players. Always have and I think most fans do. I’m ok with the guards but if we took a poo deal on Burns due to cap space, that’s on us. We had plenty (Moton and others) to creat large amounts of cap space. I’d bet that the two guards’ cap hits are low in 2024. I think we flubbed the extension so badly that we were forced to take low draft value. I’m fine with that but I don’t think cap forced us into the trade.

Exactly and unfortunately this team is way worse than the first year after Ron and the year Rhule was fired. When Fitterer got the reigns in 2022 (remember Rhule was forced to hire vet coaches and was already on the hot seat), he decimated our future picks and our talent in a matter of 2 years. Remember that article that said we were the most delusional NFL fans? You can see it every year in here. I’ve been beaten down watching this team for 6 years after enjoying the many playoff years and fun players to watch. Until we see some results like Diontae actually being a 1000 yarder instead of the 1000 yard predicted paper tigers like TMJ who was a fan favorite in here (not me at all, couldn’t separate), I’m just watching and waiting. I still think we are a bottom dweller talent wise so again, let’s see how the draft goes.

Just like turning down the Rams deal, I don’t recall us fleecing anyone. People were just excited because we were making moves. The results of the moves and the value of the moves were terrible and meh. I hope Morgan is way the fug better, but I’m still way on the skeptical side because Morgan was here and lauding him for getting rid of bad Fitterer guys isn’t meaningful. Everyone knows the team’s talent in 2023 was poo. Finally getting that isn’t some amazing thing. Fitterer was so bad it’s comical and Morgan is going to have to blow the doors off to get us there. Sucks for him because we are truly in a bad spot and we may or probably will find after this year that our QB problem is still not solved. If the 2025 QB class is like the 2022 class, it may be in 2026 before we even have a chance at being a decent team and we still have to nail the 2024/2025 drafts. We were a hair away from the first 0-17 team. It really does suck for Morgan because he really does need to be almost perfect or we won’t be competing for 5 more years.

Again, I recall you telling us how good Elflein and/or Erving were when Fitterer signed them. There’s a lot more we need to see and I am still hearing the same stuff like Morgan/Fitterer has filled every hole so we can go BPA and talking up guys who aren’t additions like Tyreke Hill or AJ Brown. We had posts in here about why Teddy was going to go for 4000-30. Also, Morgan was not elite. Luke was elite. John Lynch was elite. Ozzie Newsome was elite. Matt Millen was even a good player who won 4 SBs, which I didn’t know, but only two as a key cog. I’m not saying Morgan will be as bad as Millen but just because you were a good player, it doesn’t mean anything on your eye for talent. So far, I haven’t seen anything from anyone associated with Fitterer’s crew that should be given any benefit of the doubt until we see actual results.

After the first draft, people were lauding Fitterer. I’m waiting a bit to laud Morgan for getting bent over on the Burns trade value after taking so long that we looked desperate to take any offer. I’m slowing my roll until the draft. Two guards and Diontae aren’t making us contenders. The draft (the next 2-3) is the only way we get back to the playoffs.

SMH. Just because Fitterer flopped at drafting rookie WRs doesn’t mean a rookie WR will hinder anything. We should be able to get a quality rookie WR in this strong class that can start day 1. Stroud didn’t seem hindered by a rookie WR. Flowers didn’t hurt Lamar and Addison was solid for Cousins especially with JJ out. We shouldn’t be scared of stuff because our last GM sucked. Still entirely possible we still suck at drafting since we still have the same cogs that were around him. Here’s hoping we learned or that we fired the right guy.

We’ve said the exact same thing for all of Fitterer’s reign and it hasn’t worked out yet. BPA should be the process because we have lots of holes.

It’s happened tons of times before. Also, why do people equate tanking with players and coaches? The GM/FO control a tank. Trading Burns for a 2nd and 5th is basically a tank. If you aren’t rebuilding and trying to win, you fit him into the cap which was easy to do. We turned down a huge package for him a year and a half ago and now we give him away for pennies on the dollar. One more note, lol at “happy with a dismal season.” Have you been around the Panthers after 2017?

A five year deal to me says this guy is a long term option, there after the rebuild. We do need to confirm that Young is or isn’t the guy, so that is a key part of the rebuild. I’m not sold on Young at all but if a miracle happens, that would be a large part of the rebuild. I just don’t like Robinson type deals where we aren’t getting a long term piece of the puzzle.

I doubt it will be reasonable. I liked that we seemed to be officially tanking but if we start signing 1-2 year deals for older vets that aren’t long term, we are just right back to the 5-7 win range screwing if draft slots when we need that.

I like getting something for Donte and spending money to get some real OL, but I don’t like the feeling that we maybe we have this feeling that we can rebuild but also win at the same time. If Hunt is a 5 year guy, great, we need a better OL so we can officially decide if we need a new QB but don’t spend a bunch of money on a 3 year DL deal like Robinson. It’ll be 3 years before we are contending. I don’t want some extra wins. I would rather unearth the best UDFAs and guys released on their rookie deal like Addison and Luvu for the next couple years. Get us a foundation while also drafting well. Then you spend a bucket load in FA because we’ll have a vet (Brown, maybe Horn, Diontae etc.) core and the rookies (maybe even Mingo) will have developed. Then we are competitive.

I like this move. We heard about Donte being released so nice to see we got something for him.

I agree with this. Wanna step right in and be a starter to show you should get a big contract after 1 or 2 years? Come down and see the Panthers, we’ll put that poo on everything.

It’s a good thought. Handful of vet RBs who could be available closer to the draft or after on the cheap.

I really hope so because, damn he had a really bad year. The speed rush still scares me but hopefully it really was awful preparation and work. I’m holding out some hope that Young might turn the corner as well. 2025 isn’t a good QB class so maybe we can end up with a stud DL like Garrett instead.

Iky looked bad because he was awful on the edge when he had 1 well known guy to block. Anyone with speed just ran right by him. The LG had nothing to do with that. I don’t recall seeing Moton looking bad like that all the time. Also, I recall seeing times where the LG picked up the stunt coming from Iky’s guy and Iky never got off the double to pick up the inside DL stunting to the outside. He was really bad at any stunts and reading the right guy to pick up. Our interior OL was wretched but Iky looked just as bad all on his own.

Then it’s on the GM/assistant GM to know that and make the trade, don’t you think? Listen, Fitterer and his assistant made a poo ton of mistakes. You don’t have to cover for Morgan. That’s why a lot of us were concerned when he was hired as the GM. He may figure it out and do well but you don’t have to try and paint it like someone else dropped the ball on Burns. Fitterer and Morgan did, simple as that. They should have made the trade, but barring that they should have already had a deal in place if they turn down the trade.

What? Morgan and Fitterer were the assistant GM and GM. Souleman(sp?) was the cap guy but he make the decision. Morgan/Fitt were 100% at fault for not realizing the Rams trade value plus opening up Burns’ cap space was a great deal and they were 100% at fault for not having an extension already setup. I’d be interested in what you think the GM’s job is.

Trading away 2 picks that could very easily end up being two young solid WRs for a guy who wants a big deal makes no sense. If this was a shitty WR draft and we weren’t completely rebuilding, maybe. Right now, with this draft, completely stupid. This draft reminds me of 2020 when Higgins went 33rd and Pittman was 34th right behind him. Lamb and Jefferson went in the first but Ruggs, Jeudy and Raegor all went before Jefferson. We have to hit on 33 and 39, but the WR talent in this draft is such that you could possibly come away with both Higgins and Pittman. Then again, we could get Shenault, Hamler, Claypool and Van Jefferson, the next 4 WRs taken in that 2nd round.

Man, the Bears really fleeced us bad. They had to be dancing a jig when they saw what we looked like in preseason and probably doing it again watching us not field a defense. I don’t think Moore and our two future picks could have worked out any better for them. Pick value (ignoring year since we are both rebuilding so only talent matters) was 3000 for us and 5230 for them. Then you throw DJ Moore on top. Damn Fitterer. Add in his, I’d rather have a 5th than two 1sts (2nds cancel) for Burns and we basically burned 3 1st round picks for nothing.

I understand your thoughts about a 2025 first. I might have preferred that but I will say that you shouldn’t forget that this is a loaded draft. A late first in 2025 might actually not be as good a player as pick 39. That said, it would have been nice to have extra picks (like the Rams first) and our #1 overall.