How about those RED SOX! Part Deux

[pantherphan96]

not sure how i feel about buchholz starting game 3... but regardless i am ready for some October baseball!

[Goondal]

He would definitely not be my choice, but if he and E-Rod are both starting then I suppose the order does not matter.

Not sure if Porcello has ever gone on short rest but my preferred would be to have E-Rod in 3, then Porcello in 4 given his numbers at Fenway.  Price could then go on short rest in Game 5.

Hopefully we light up Tomlin to give Clay a lot of support.

[Goondal]

Heck of a day yesterday.  I love trading prospects for Sale, even if Moncada was included.  In the end, he is only a prospect while Sale is proven.  I honestly feel he is the second best pitcher in baseball.  I am fine with Kopech being a part of the deal too as he was projected as a #3 if all turned out well and has already been suspended for PEDs so there are certainly chances that things do not work out.  Basabe has a lot of potential but he also has a lot of bust potential as he was very early in the development.  Kept Benintendi, Devers, and Groome so still have strong guys in the minors with one obviously expected to spend '17 in the majors after a good audition last season.

I also love the Thornburg acquisition.  He is young and under team control for a few years and coming off a very good season as the Brewers closer. I love having guys that have had closing success in the set-up role should something happen to Kimbrel.  Meanwhile we only gave up Shaw and a few second tier prospects.  Hoping they resign Ziegler (but not thinking it will happen) and then will have Carson Smith returning also, I have high hopes for him.

Like Moreland.  I know they were looking at Alvarez also and while the latter has much more potential he really is boom or bust.  There really is no bust potential with Moreland, he is consitent and we know what we are going to get.  He will be a nice addition to the bottom of the order.

Only downside I see is we are stuck with the fatfuk at 3B.  Devers has an ETA of Spring 2018 so if Pablo still sucks we will not be stuck with him for long and it should not be too expensive for Dombrowski to find something servicable until he is ready.  I suppose it is the one thing I preferred about Alvarez is he could have moved to 3B if needed and Moreland has no time there.

Either way, it is nice to be excited about the moves after being unhappy with the reckless spending the last two offseasons.  

[pantherphan96]

^Agreed. Saw that Pablo has slimmed down some so I'm hoping he can be more effective this year plus we have Holt to fill in as needed. Also like moving Hanley to DH and having a Gold Glove 1B in Moreland. Keeping Betts, Benintendi, and Bradley was a major win as well. 

Moncada and Kopech are great prospects but they are still a long way from being big-league ready. In return we have a top 5 pitcher on a very team friendly contract throughout his prime. 

Think the bullpen should be much better with Kelly, Thornburg, Smith, and Kimbrel as the main guys.

[Goondal]

So, who goes to the pen?

Obviously Sale-Price-Porcello is the big three and I feel like you have to have E-Rod in the rotation.  He is the young guy with all the potential and we cannot afford to stymie his growth by sending him to the pen and jerking him around.  Too many guys have been ruined that way (we ruined Daniel Bard in the opposite way).  Dombrowski wants guys to perform now though so if he falls behind the other two it could be him, I am rooting for him of the three though.

That leaves Wright and Pomeranz.  Giving up such a high prospect for Pomeranz is not something you want to do for a reliever, but at the same time it may be the better option.  He does have experience out there and I am not all the high on a knuckler coming out of the pen (despite Wake closing at one point).

I am not sure if Wright has any options, as he could become that sixth starter that moves between AAA and MLB.

It will be interesting.  I love having this problem much more than the not enough pitching side of things.

[pantherphan96]

On 12/9/2016 at 9:51 PM, Goondal said:

So, who goes to the pen?

Obviously Sale-Price-Porcello is the big three and I feel like you have to have E-Rod in the rotation.  He is the young guy with all the potential and we cannot afford to stymie his growth by sending him to the pen and jerking him around.  Too many guys have been ruined that way (we ruined Daniel Bard in the opposite way).  Dombrowski wants guys to perform now though so if he falls behind the other two it could be him, I am rooting for him of the three though.

That leaves Wright and Pomeranz.  Giving up such a high prospect for Pomeranz is not something you want to do for a reliever, but at the same time it may be the better option.  He does have experience out there and I am not all the high on a knuckler coming out of the pen (despite Wake closing at one point).

I am not sure if Wright has any options, as he could become that sixth starter that moves between AAA and MLB.

It will be interesting.  I love having this problem much more than the not enough pitching side of things.

Wouldn't mind having Wright as the 6th starter and using him exclusively for dome games and clear weather games to mitigate the effect of poor weather on the knuckleball. Think you put E-Rod and Pomeranz as 4/5 and keep shopping Buchholz.

[pantherphan96]

2 hours ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

Buchholz is worth more to keep over anything you'd get in return for him, you never know when he will turn back into Cy Young for a couple weeks or months, or maybe eventually a whole season

exactly why I think they should sell him high before he starts the season with a 5+ ERA and becomes basically worthless again.

[pantherphan96]

4 hours ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

They can't sell him high though that's the thing, if they traded him now they'd get a bucket of bubble gum and a broken bat lol its better value to hold on to him and hope he figures it out

unless he starts off the year unexpectedly strong his value won't be much higher than it is right now. if we could get a prospect or at least get some team to take his whole salary cap hit I'd chalk that up to a W.

E-Rod is too promising to get rid of and unless we are getting Espinoza back I don't want to trade Pomeranz.

[Goondal]

9 hours ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

I think E-Rod is most likely to be traded because we already have two Lefties starting

I really hope you are wrong here.  I feel that E-Rod is the most talented of the possible #4 starters and it really is not that close to me.

[Goondal]

In regards to Clay, we will probably have to eat salary, maybe most of it.  The goal should be a good prospect.  I am fine keeping him if we do not get what we want and with his recent struggles, that is likely where we will be.

I do not really want him in the rotation though.  Prefer him in the long relief/sixth start role.

In regards to what we could get, do not be surprised if someone overplays, most likely an NL team, especially if we eat most of the money.  The SP market is so barran and quality SP is the most valuable commodity in the sports universe.  Teams are so desperate for it that they will literally crawl through the desert towards a mirage and then drink the sand.  Not saying it will happen but it would not surprised me at all if  Buchholz is the sand for one organization.

[Goondal]

Just now, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

WELP

Buchholz to the Phils for a prospect ... he might dominate in the NL

I am thrilled with this trade, they took the whole damn contract!  We are under the tax now!  Weird that the Phillies would make such a trade, not like they are expected to compete or anything. 

Just dumping the whole contract makes the level of the prospect meaningless, I could be the prospect and it would be good.  I am not sure how good he is but I have at least heard of him. 

[pantherphan96]

1 hour ago, Goondal said:

I am thrilled with this trade, they took the whole damn contract!  We are under the tax now!  Weird that the Phillies would make such a trade, not like they are expected to compete or anything. 

Just dumping the whole contract makes the level of the prospect meaningless, I could be the prospect and it would be good.  I am not sure how good he is but I have at least heard of him. 

All I wanted. Don't even care about the prospect.

[Goondal]

Now that that is over, time for the three way battle for the final two spots.   With all the talk of our big three, I think the 4-5 could be one of the best back end of the rotations in baseball.   

Rooting for Eduardo and Wright myself as I think Pom Pom would be the best of the three in the pen.  Only downside is we have up so much for him, seems big for middle relief. 

Still, a bullpen involving Kimbrel, Thornburg, Kelly, Barnes, and whoever the sixth starter is looks good. 

Abad (as much as he annoyed me) and Hembree, if used as a LOOGY & ROOGY tandem will fill it out nicely.   

Then we have Carson Smith returning around Memorial Day.   

Both the rotation and bullpen should be substantially better this season.  Now to replace Papi's production 

[pantherphan96]

Can't see the Sox making a play for Encarnacion especially with us now just getting under the luxury tax. Thinking we are going into the season with Hanley/Panda split at DH.