Movies about the Old West and it's impact on American culture

[pstall]

I have always been fascinated not so much with movie genre's as much as why and when they either started or faded.

The Western is a classic piece of Americana.

I think the love of them is obvious and the shelf life seems to coincide with the demographics in the US. It seems in the mid to late 70's this genre began to fade despite huge hits like True Grit or Rooster Cogburn among a few.

So, is the Western a lost genre simply because of the actors that were in them have died off or the demographics of the US themselves has changed so much it shows the Western as going against the grain. The Western is classic good vs evil. Black hat/white hat.

No stretch but I'm willing to bet that the Vietnam War had an impact on not just war itself, but anything viewed as imperialism or the white man being on top.

Intresting to note the # of brutal movies of the 70's that seemed to push the envelope just a few years removed from the Blue Code days.

What say you?

[charlotte49er]

A lot of the Western TV success had to do with the "serial" format. (No not the kind you eat!) Often called the "Cliff hanger". Where the hero was in a perilous situation and you had to see the next show to see if he or she got out. The early movies were like this and it was actually carry over from radio.

As for the Western Movies, like you pointed out there was a clear cut good guy and bad guy. Occasional a bad guy repented and became a good guy. John Wayne's famous "Angel and the Badman", "Stagecoach" comes to mind. There are countless others. When the distinction between good and evil became less clear, I think both the Western and War movies suffered. We still have an occasional Western (Silverado, Unforgiven, Pale Rider) that does well at the box office. (All 3 movies had major box office draws. 2 of the 3 of course was Clint Eastwood.) It's interesting in that Pale Rider can actually be tied into another one of Eastwood's movies, "High Plains Drifter". They both appear out of nowhere and seemly disappear and both seem to be a reincarnation of a past person tied to the town.

I also think that Westerns & War movies are a genre that was just over done. There for a while Doctor and Lawyer shows on TV were the bread and butter. Then they died out. No one wanted to watch them. Then Law & Order and ER made them popular again. Now of course, Vampires are the hot ticket. All networks are scrambling to develop shows based on vampires.

I am kind of surprised that TV didn't do a series based on Star Ship Troopers. (I think that was the name of the movie.)

Also, the "cowboy" era was a relatively short amount of time in real history. Basically, it lasted between the end of the Civil War 1865 (errr the War of Northern Aggression as it's known here in the South!) and really the linking of the Transcontinental Railroad in 1869, but realistically lasted until the Great Northfield (Minnesota) Raid of 1876.

A lot of the popularity of the time period owes itself to the "Dime novel". These mini-books often embellished tales of the "Old West". For example, the card game of choice for hands coming off a cattle drive wasn't poker, it was "Old Maid!" Whoever, was the "Old Maid" had to buy the next round of drinks. Of course, a bunch of rough cattle herders playing "Old Maid" doesn't sound too exciting. So poker became the game of choice, as far as the Movies and TV goes.

Sorry, it's late and I think I went completely off your point.

[Delhommey]

I wonder how many people foresaw when Hilter came to power that he would supply the plot line for half of all TV shows and movies for the next hundred years.

[Zaximus]

Westerns still come out, Open Range/3:10 to Yuma/Apaloosa/The Proposition (really in Aussie but it's kind of a western anyway). Maybe Red Dead Redemption, game that just came out based in western times, will get movie studios more interested.

[Jangler]

Hollywood hates America.

[mmmbeans]

It depends on what type of western you're talking about, you seem to be talking about John Ford types which have difficulty appealing these days in a large part because they are often oversimplified both narratively and morally.

I think you're right about vietnam affecting not only our views of imperialism etc but also our views of ourselves and the perfect country that we'd thought we'd created. Art in general but especially film and music changed drastically over that period. Leone, Peckinpah, and even Ford continued to make westerns but they were noticeably darker, more violent and morally enigmatic; (i.e. Once Upon a Time in the West, The Wild Bunch, The Searchers, Hud etc.) But to a large extent that era of western (especially with Leone) was a direct result of Kurosawa's work. If you wanna see some good westerns watch samurai films (Sanjuro, Yojimbo, 7 samurai etc.)

It's continued now, films like Unforgiven, the Proposition, and No Country for Old Men all focus on changing worlds, worlds which we have no control over and the disillusionment which comes hand in hand with the realization that we aren't the gods that we thought we were and that we all, both individually and societally have to pay for our sins.

They still make good ones, but the perspective has changed significantly and consequently making a good western has become very difficult with a very low rate of commercial success. They've been coming back significantly in the last few years though which makes me very happy.

Gotta go drink coffee now.