Some constructive criticism on Cam Newton's performance. Please don't shoot.

[edromeo]

1. Naanee breaks off and gets open. Looking straight ahead.At this point both both 25 and Lennon have eyes on

2.Naanee turns his head and IS looking at Cam BEFORE Cam even winds up to throw . Goodson is not looking at Cam at this point. He's still trying to get in position. #25 is looking at Naanee & looking at Cam.

3.Naanee IS STILL looking at Cam . Now, Goodson is in position and looking at Cam too. 25 is still looking at Naanee and at Cam as is 31

4.Naanee IS STILL looking at Cam, as is Goodson.25 is still looking at Naanee and looking at Cam +31

5.From the other angle. Naanee IS looking at Cam way BEFORE he gets to the referee. Ball should have been thrown by now if Newton was gonna go for Naanee.25 STILL looking25 is looking at Naanee and looking at Cam and breaking towards Naanee

Naanee does get open first, he does look at Cam first, before Goodson. And yes, I get it. You WANT me to be wrong

Naanee does look open (4 yards shy of the sticks) at this point BUT

Cam was scanning the field and saw Naanee and without a doubt saw 25 looking right at him reading both he and Naanee and breaking on Naanee at a goof angle to close and tackle.

For this reason Cam didn't choose to throw it to Naanee.

25 has a great shot at making the play and tackling Naanee short of the sticks.

He knew 25 was reading Naanee and Cam the whole way and would have a great chance to make a play and tackle Naanee short.

[edromeo]

How does #25 catch Naanee if, Naanee's running faster?

Its quite obvious that 25 is taking a goo/great pursuit angle on Naanee and reading the his route. Not to mention that 31 has control of his WR and has a clear line of site to Cam and would also close on Naanee

[rayzor]

Just as amazing as how many it takes to make a brick wall? ;)

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” -Socrates

And on that note, I think this argument has run its course.

so that means you won? :lol: alright.

i'd be suprised i you could quit.

it's too important to you. one hundred posts in this thread says that's the way it is.

[edromeo]

He then passes them off to other guys as the receiver goes through his zone into another. What they are playing looks like a combination of zone and man. Number 51 starts out on Olsen and then sees Goodson coming inside, he leaves Olsen and hands him off while he engages Goodson because he knows that there is not anyone in that zone after Nannee clears it out. Man to man or cover 0 that close to the goal would entail defenders all taking guys off the line and that didn't happen. Most times you get a combination where the safeties and linebackers play zone but the corners play man to cover the fade route. I think that linebacker was playing zone but it is hard to tell sometimes when things get so compressed and they are not taking drops.

Yeah I was saying this earlier, they (Lennon) could be playing a defense called "Banjo".

It like a match-up zone.

The defenders play a man while the receiver is in there area then pass off to another defender as/if they clear.

[PantherFanForLife]

1. Naanee breaks off and gets open. Looking straight ahead.At this point both both 25 and Lennon have eyes on

2.Naanee turns his head and IS looking at Cam BEFORE Cam even winds up to throw . Goodson is not looking at Cam at this point. He's still trying to get in position. #25 is looking at Naanee & looking at Cam.

3.Naanee IS STILL looking at Cam . Now, Goodson is in position and looking at Cam too. 25 is still looking at Naanee and at Cam as is 31

4.Naanee IS STILL looking at Cam, as is Goodson.25 is still looking at Naanee and looking at Cam +31

5.From the other angle. Naanee IS looking at Cam way BEFORE he gets to the referee. Ball should have been thrown by now if Newton was gonna go for Naanee.25 STILL looking25 is looking at Naanee and looking at Cam and breaking towards Naanee

Naanee does look open (4 yards shy of the sticks) at this point BUT

Cam was scanning the field and saw Naanee and without a doubt saw 25 looking right at him reading both he and Naanee and breaking on Naanee at a goof angle to close and tackle.

For this reason Cam didn't choose to throw it to Naanee.

25 has a great shot at making the play and tackling Naanee short of the sticks.

He knew 25 was reading Naanee and Cam the whole way and would have a great chance to make a play and tackle Naanee short.

I love how you just keep finding some other excuse every time I shut down a point. Ok so, now that it appears you agree Naanee was indeed looking at Cam and would have seen a pass......what is your point, now? Cam didn't throw to Naanee because 25 was "looking" at him?

What about Lennon? Wasn't Lennon also staring at Goodson and Cam?

Cam saw, but didn't throw to Naanee because of fear from #25, who was looking at him, but he instead chose to throw to Goodson because......he also had his own defender, Lennon, not just looking at him and Cam, but practically touching him?

Did I get you right there?

You might as well say Cam wanted the greater challenge ;)

[ncmonzta]

It's would've could've should've. None of it matters anymore. Cam took a good shot with Goodson, but he was right in front of the sticks. The defense did a good job keeping their man right in front of them. The only other option he had was to throw it up for Olsen in the Back of the end zone and that came open late.

[CLTPanther]

You guys are wasting precious Internet bandwidth cycles to argue over silly poo. Go drink a beer and get over it.

[edromeo]

You know what else is a fact? This place is filled with overzealous fans that no matter how many facts you show them, to what great lengths to go to explain something, no matter the evidence presented, they would just never accept that Cam Newton could do something wrong.

That, too, is a fact.

Fact my tail.

Did you read the thread I linked earlier?

I loosely charted one of Cam's preseason games; was that not objective?

I pointed out many things that Cam did 'wrong'.

Grading Cam down for his decision on this play wouldn't be correct.

It would be like grading him down if the threw it Naanee and he didn't convert.

Neither pass if complete on time and in rhythm would be graded negatively.

That's a point you don't understand.

Grading Cam down in this instance is like grading him down on a play where a receiver drops the ball.

[PantherFanForLife]

Fact my tail.

Did you read the thread I linked earlier?

I loosely charted one of Cam's preseason games; was that not objective?

I pointed out many things that Cam did 'wrong'.

Grading Cam down wouldn't be correct.

It would be like grading him down if the threw it Naanee and he didn't convert.

Neither pass if complete on time and in rhythm would be graded negatively.

That's a point you don't understand.

Grading Cam down is just not fair.

I think I get it now. I think Cam's awesome too man!

I fixed that for you.

[edromeo]

I love how you just keep finding some other excuse every time I shut down a point. Ok so, now that it appears you agree Naanee was indeed looking at Cam and would have seen a pass

LoL, when you 'shut down' a point I'll tell you.

But anyway you're getting your arguments mixed up friend.

Never said Naanee wasn't looking at Cam. (no worries)

......what is your point, now? Cam didn't throw to Naanee because 25 was "looking" at him?

Yes.

If you realize that 25 is looking at Cam and at Naanee then you know that 25 (who is already closing on Naanee) will 'pull the trigger' so to be speak as soon as Cam commits to throw the Naanee.

This would put 25 in great position to tackle Naanee short of the sticks.

What about Lennon? Wasn't Lennon also staring at Goodson and Cam?

Yes.

Cam saw, but didn't throw to Naanee because of fear from #25, who was looking at him, but he instead chose to throw to Goodson because......he also had his own defender, Lennon, not just looking at him and Cam, but practically touching him?

Yes, and that how most pass plays work the QB makes the choice he thinks is best.

Sometimes like in this case the receivers have about the same chance to make the play.

Cam probably chose Goodson because a RB on a LB is a good match-up.

IF Goodson would have 'WON' his assignment and converted the 1st down then would Cam have still made a 'mistake'?

(BTW- If you looked up what stem means do you see now how Goodson could have gained more separation by using a 'stem' before he broke inside?)

Did I get you right there?

[PantherFanForLife]

LoL, when you 'shut down' a point I'll tell you.

But anyway you're getting your arguments mixed up friend.

Never said Naanee wasn't looking at Cam. (no worries)

Yes.

If you realize that 25 is looking at Cam and at Naanee then you know that 25 (who is already closing on Naanee) will 'pull the trigger' so to be speak as soon as Cam commits to throw the Naanee.

This would put 25 in great position to tackle Naanee short of the sticks.

Yes.

Yes, and that how most pass plays work the QB makes the choice he thinks is best.

Sometimes like in this case the receivers have about the same chance to make the play.

Cam probably chose Goodson because a RB on a LB is a good match-up.

IF Goodson would have 'WON' his assignment and converted the 1st down then would Cam have still made a 'mistake'?

(BTW- If you looked up what stem means do you see now how Goodson could have gained more separation by using a 'stem' before he broke inside?)

Did I get you right there?

Every time I see that "closing in" statement it makes me smile. Had Cam thrown to Naanee, Antrel would have kicked in that running speed of 1.90 he's been saving all these years and caught Naanee in a heartbeat;)

So what you're telling me now is........you do not consider a receiver who has no defender around him anywhere within 4 yards an open and viable target if there's a risk of getting taken down by the guy looking at him?

It's much better to throw to a RB who has a LB hugging him?

They both have the same chance. That's what you're saying?

[CLTPanther]

I'm saying go drink beer, it's a better use of time

[edromeo]

I think I get it now. I think Cam's awesome too man!

I fixed that for you.

You know what?

I know you're not an idiot but some of the posts you make well......

You quote Socrates but do you know what Dostoyevsky says about sarcasm?

You should look it up.

And yes I do think Cam is awesome, there's nothing wrong with that.

I also think Adrian Peterson and a handful of other players are awesome.

I thought Cam was one of the best QB prospects I've ever seen.

And you know what? Throwing for 422 2 TDs and 1 Rush TD in his first game kinda supports my feeling. (btw its the best debut for any QB ever not just rookies)

BTW this is what I actually wrote, in the future don't lie:

.....Grading Cam down for his decision on this play wouldn't be correct.

It would be like grading him down if the threw it Naanee and he didn't convert.

Neither pass if complete on time and in rhythm would be graded negatively.

That's a point you don't understand.

Grading Cam down in this instance is like grading him down on a play where a receiver drops the ball.

Since you're trying to avoid the topic i'll make it just a little bit harder for you to dodge this question.

I'm a little late to the party but I wanted to watch the re-play and catch the plays in context.

Here's my take on Cam's play from the Dolphins game: (flame suit on)

1st Series I'm gonna do it in series by series

o Under Center-In rhythm on target texas route to Olsen from dual TE stack ®-

-Cam throws these types of passes effortlessly and they make up a major part of NFL passing offenses

o (:30s) U.C.-Playaction has pressure around and throws off his backfoot and misses a deep comeback (L) to Edwards?

-Cam should step up and deliver this throw, he cannot allow his mechanics to breakdown in a muddle pocket or In this case there appeared to be a good running lane (@:33s) on the (L)eftside given an open running lane if Cam feels he cannot step up and deliver a throw because of the pressure in his face he should try and run for the 1st down

o (:39s) Gun-3rd&8 Looks downfield free rusher ® LB runs (L) doesn't convert the 1st down

-Pre-snap phase: Cam's gotta expect and recognize the blitz on 3rd down and slide protection; he's also gotta identify his hot WR and change his normal read progression in this case I think WR#6 from the (L) running a Slant-Sit route was his hot look @ :44s but you can really see him open @1:01 if Cam hits him early and maybe catch and run for the 1st down

-I also thought that Cam dropped his eyes early on the scramble ,but he was being chased, it looked like Olsen had a step on his man @1:04 (and he threw his hand up trying to make himself available to Cam) but I also don't know where the S was on this play

2nd Series

o (1:26) UC -Play action rhythm throw to Shockey on a 16 yd corner route (L)

-A tougher throw then it looks (26 yards in the air) Cam flashes the arm strength and delivers on time on target from a clean pocket

o (1:50) UC -Don't normally comment on screen passes but Cam throws this ball away playing it safe, I thought he killed it too early and could ran toward the (L) and given the back a chance to get out on the screen by extending the play a little

o (1:58) Gun-3rd&8 Olsen runs a 6-7 yard out towards the ® sideline-Cam was on time on target with the throw but the Olsen ran it short of the first down

-I'm gonna nit-pick here and its admittedly a risky throw that could result in an incompletion but if Cam throws Olsen open with an earlier ball thrown further upfield @47-48 yd line then Olsen has a better chance to catch and run

3rd series

o Gun TE 6 yd in route in rhythm on time on target, easy read easy throw

o ? (2:41) Comeback (L) to Edwards- clean pocket no pressure just flat out misses an open Edwards. These are the types of random misses that Cam or any QB cannot have, concentration lapse? Who nows, simply can't have that though.

o Gun (2:47) 3rd&4 Blitz sack. Shula is gonna have to work with Cam a lot here as with most young QB Cam is not recognizing/reacting pre-snap to the blitz to either make a protection change or alert the hot route. RT #65 didn't do Cam any favors with his "Look Out!" block on the NB. At first look I thought Cam didn't look at Shock but @ 3:04 he's looking that way but Shockey doesn't have his head around yet and by the time Shock is open @ 3:05/6 Fins #37 is already closing.

4th Series

o Gun (3:13) PA Zone read TE screen

o Gun (3:19) Blitz. Cam throws off back foot (3:21) to WR#6 running a post (L).

-Cam didn't recognize blitz/hot, likely stayed on his 1st read when @ (3:20) Edwards is open on the ® 5 yard square in

-Rushed decision b/c of pressure and made a bad choice throwing into coverage could've been intercepted

o Gun 3rd&9 PA Zone read WR screen.

-Wasted playcall imo passed up a chance to get Cam comfortable with 3rd (long) down defense especially pre-snap and 'seeing' the blitz and post snap blitz react.

5th Series

o Gun (3:56s) Looks downfield scrambles ® picks up 4 yds

-@ 4:00s Cam has Sutton open on a Texas route RT#65 doesn't sustain his block Cam avoids free rusher and out runs Wake for the 4 yd gain

o Gun (4:08) RB screen

o Gun (4:59) Steps up to avoid pass rush #65 is struggling to make/sustain his blocks scrambles ® keeps eyes downfield throws on the run to Shockey on the sideline near the sticks

-Incomplete,Cam through a catchable ball Shock made good effort

o Gun (5:00) There are bodies on Cam's ® but its a clean pocket with clear vision, WR#6 is open over the middle of the field and Cam misses him.

-Good decision terrible throw, gotta hit this is one.

Shula has wonder/ask Cam what happened?

o Gun (5:11) 3&10 No blitz/no pressure Fins show 4 man rush

but drop 8. Cam looks downfield then takes off ® gains 7 yds.

-I would have liked to see Cam let it fly here, but in 2 down situation a 7 yd gain isn't a bad outcome. {Wish we could what the receivers were doing downfield}

o Hail mary, yeah Cam has an arm throws 50 yards in the air w/ ease

Summary

It was a mixed bag.

I'm a Cutler fan and Cam looked like bad Jay out there at times.

Like many strong arm QBs trusts his arm too much and has a tendency to throw off balance off there back leg.

Cam, like most young QBs, has to do a much better job recognizing (pre-snap) and reacting slide protection, call out hot/alert and beating the blitz with a quick throw.

Cam also needs to get used to throwing with bodies around him from a muddled pocket and recognize when to pull the down and

run.

In the regular season playcalling and gameplan can help Cam improve on the things I mentioned above, be it through play action passing, moving the pocket, using max protect or shorter routes against the blitz that force him to get the ball out quick.

When Cam had a well defined read and knew where he was going with the ball he can deliver on target passes in rhythm to anywhere on the field.

Looking forward to the Bengals.

Hopefully Cam doesn't have to share 1st team reps with Jimmy and gets to throw a 25+ passes.

I hope Shula/Chudz get Cam going on some rhythm drop back throws.

Over the past 2 games Cam has shown that from a clean pocket he can deliver some money making arm strength intensive throws like the skinny post and corner route and vertical seam.

The vertical seam, corner route and bang 8 can be the basis for a solid gameplan.

I don't know Chudz preseason history but I hope they gameplan a little for this game with a focus on getting Cam to up his efficiency and comp%.

^^Honest question: Do you think the above breakdown is objective?

BTW-Rivera said that Goodson was the primary not the 1st read.

Do you understand the difference between primary receiver and 1st read in the progression?

Because the 2 are not the same.

[I am Hubby]

All this for one play? I somehow feel dumber for the experience.

I guess it means that the expectations for Cameron went from "Hope he can do well." To "He needs to do better." Unfortunate that some people will never be happy.

Cameron throws for 422yds, but it is the 1yd he does not get that gets some people all bent out of shape.

I am still giddy as all get out. And GOOOOO PANTHERS!!!

I hope you guys are happy, I am now over 200 posts! What a waste.