Michael Brockers, DT, LSU

[JawnyBlaze]

I wouldn't be surprised. The Jets are more or less set at NT for now (unless they let Pouha walk) and they've recently invested in their DL so I wouldn't worry too much about them. Dallas would be a major contender to take him if they didn't have greater needs elsewhere (notably everywhere in their secondary), the Cardinals also don't have a glaring need on their DL, I'm not sure what alignment the Chiefs have decided to run this year but they're probably contenders. That's about the sum of the way I look at it between our pick and the Chargers (who I think are probably the biggest threat). So Yea, I think we could safely trade all the way down to the Bengals' pick at #17 and have a good shot at him (barring someone else trading up for him, obviously).

[JawnyBlaze]

Maybe, maybe not. I think if you have your eyes on a guy, you take him if he's there when you're on the clock. I don't think you try to get cute and roll the dice and try to trade back to pick up an additional mid-round pick.

I know we did that with Beason and it worked out, but then again, who's to say for sure that it was Beason we were targeting? Of course that's what the brass will say, they don't want to look like jackasses, but there's really no way of knowing.

Everything I've ready said they were targeting Willis but when he was taken before them they decided to trade down to get more value out of picking their 2nd choice (which obviously worked out well).

[koolkatluke]

Maybe, maybe not. I think if you have your eyes on a guy, you take him if he's there when you're on the clock. I don't think you try to get cute and roll the dice and try to trade back to pick up an additional mid-round pick.

I know we did that with Beason and it worked out, but then again, who's to say for sure that it was Beason we were targeting? Of course that's what the brass will say, they don't want to look like jackasses, but there's really no way of knowing.

This draft is breaking out to have a few Guys at DT that will look good in the Blue and Black. Brocker, Poe, and Maybe Cox. I don't think Poe has reach Top 15 yet but you never Know. I think we will have our choice at 9 and maybe 12.

[LinvilleGorge]

Everything I've ready said they were targeting Willis but when he was taken before them they decided to trade down to get more value out of picking their 2nd choice (which obviously worked out well).

Yep, makes sense.

I think if you trade down, you do it because there are multiple guys on your board who you rank similarly and you feel certain one of them will be there at the pick you're trading down to. IMO, if you're on the clock and there's one guy on your board who clearly sticks out, you stay there and pick him unless there's an offer that comes through that's just too good to turn down.

[LinvilleGorge]

This draft is breaking out to have a few Guys at DT that will look good in the Blue and Black. Brocker, Poe, and Maybe Cox. I don't think Poe has reach Top 15 yet but you never Know. I think we will have our choice at 9 and maybe 12.

It also takes a dancing partner to trade. There has to be a team in love with a player still on the board willing to move up to get him.

Every year, there are prospect rankings where it looks good that you got, say the #2 overall player at the position, but then it doesn't necessarily look so great a few years down the road when the #1 guy is Peyton Manning and you're stuck with Ryan Leaf.

[JawnyBlaze]

Yep, makes sense.

I think if you trade down, you do it because there are multiple guys on your board who you rank similarly and you feel certain one of them will be there at the pick you're trading down to. IMO, if you're on the clock and there's one guy on your board who clearly sticks out, you stay there and pick him unless there's an offer that comes through that's just too good to turn down.

I agree, which is kind of how I feel about Brockers, Poe, Still and to a lesser extent Cox. If we were to trade down just 5 or so spots and still get one of the first three I'd be thrilled, or trade down to the 20s and get Cox.

[koolkatluke]

It also takes a dancing partner to trade. There has to be a team in love with a player still on the board willing to move up to get him.

Every year, there are prospect rankings where it looks good that you got, say the #2 overall player at the position, but then it doesn't necessarily look so great a few years down the road when the #1 guy is Peyton Manning and you're stuck with Ryan Leaf.

I have a feeling 1 of these QB starve teams will be looking on the outside of the Peyton, Flynn, RG3 stakes and Tanniehill and Cousins might make people want to trade up.

[JawnyBlaze]

But my Patrick Willis is Brockers :)

[LinvilleGorge]

I agree, which is kind of how I feel about Brockers, Poe, Still and to a lesser extent Cox. If we were to trade down just 5 or so spots and still get one of the first three I'd be thrilled, or trade down to the 20s and get Cox.

I kind of agree from the outside looking in, but then again, our scouts, coaches, and front office may not view them as being all that similar in terms of final draft grades.

[LinvilleGorge]

But my Patrick Willis is Brockers :)

I was all about Brockers, but I have to admit, his combine performance really has me pumping the brakes. Only 19 reps is pretty alarming, I don't care how long his arms are. And his 40 and 10 yard split were pretty pedestrian as well. I just thought for a guy who was supposed to be such a raw, athletic prospect with a ton of potential, he didn't do much to impress in a venue where such a guy should've shined.

[JawnyBlaze]

I just don't agree on the value of combine performances. I mean, the guy wasn't even planning on participating. If you're going to heavily value workouts in shorts I'd wait and reevaluate at his Pro Day.

[LinvilleGorge]

I think it's all part of the process. You look for combine performances to validate what you've seen on tape to see if that will translate to the next level. It's a red flag if a guy looks fast or beastly powerful on tape, but then runs a slow 40 or does poorly lifting. It can also give you an indication that maybe you've missed something on tape on another guy. Some guy shows up and runs a 4.3 flat, you better believe scouts and coaches are going to go back and look at his tape to see if they've overlooked him for some reason.

19 reps is a major red flag, IMO. I don't care if he was prepared or not. I would expect any decent NFL prospect DT to do better than that at the drop of a hat without even knowing they were going to be lifting that day.

Brockers pro day definitely just became a lot more important. To solidify his top 15 draft status, I think he needs to put up some better numbers. He could still go in the top 15 if someone is in love, but I don't think it's a lock right now. We're still a loooooong way out though.

[Catalyst]

I just don't agree on the value of combine performances. I mean, the guy wasn't even planning on participating. If you're going to heavily value workouts in shorts I'd wait and reevaluate at his Pro Day.

True, but you have to keep in mind Brockers is a 'potential' guy. He was especially dominant in college; his biggest calling card has been his freakish athletic ability and high ceiling. The combine results put some of that into doubt.

Meanwhile, Poe came in the opposite of that. He was a guy who played at a very high level in college who many didn't expect to have the raw athletic ability Brockers does. Then he shows up and proves to be more athletic than Brockers, particularly given his size.

I just think when you compare them, Poe has the total package whereas Brockers has some question marks. Poe has the size, experience, build, and athletic ability to be a dominant NFL DT. Brockers could also, but there's a lot less tape on him and now after the combine a lot more questions about his athletic ability.

To me, Poe was better even before the combine. I've felt like Poe was the top DT for a while now, but after the combine results he has essentially out-Brockers'd Brockers.

[carpanfan96]

True, but you have to keep in mind Brockers is a 'potential' guy. He was especially dominant in college; his biggest calling card has been his freakish athletic ability and high ceiling. The combine results put some of that into doubt.

Meanwhile, Poe came in the opposite of that. He was a guy who played at a very high level in college who many didn't expect to have the raw athletic ability Brockers does. Then he shows up and proves to be more athletic than Brockers, particularly given his size.

I just think when you compare them, Poe has the total package whereas Brockers has some question marks. Poe has the size, experience, build, and athletic ability to be a dominant NFL DT. Brockers could also, but there's a lot less tape on him and now after the combine a lot more questions about his athletic ability.

To me, Poe was better even before the combine. I've felt like Poe was the top DT for a while now, but after the combine results he has essentially out-Brockers'd Brockers.

Brockers was moving up the boards so fast because of his athletic ability. His split (don't care about the 4ty really with DL) and bench press number, put that athletic ability into question.