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When was the last time a franchise QB willingly left a team?

teeray

By teeray,
in Carolina Panthers

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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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I will say this again, I love Cam Newton (that should be obvious by now) but he can do a A LOT more to help us win those one score games. And I think Cam would agree with me. I don't think he blames Ron or JR for these last two seasons. i think he blames himself first and foremost. Which is a good thing because he realizes that he can get better, and as a result the team will get better.

The only close game you can even come close to putting on Cam is Seattle and even that one I have to split with Chud because I don't agree with that lower percentage play at that point in the game where they were.

Before you cite the fumble in Atl, that's just the sort of thing that happens. It didn't end our chances of running out the clock, Rivera refusing to let him fall forward on 4th and 1 and Nakamura take full blame for that game.

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Kevin Greene Newbie

Kevin Greene

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I may be misremembering it, but I don't think Warner forced his way out of St. Louis. I think he got hurt or something and they replaced him. The circle of life and all that...

The Op didn't ask who forced their way out of town:

When was the last time a franchise QB willingly left a team?
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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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The Op didn't ask who forced their way out of town:

Ok, I worded it wrong, but I still don't think it counts because at that point Warner wasn't a franchise QB. He proved it by sucking in NY.

I will admit it's close and just a matter of perception whether it counts.

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Kevin Greene Newbie

Kevin Greene

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Ok, I worded it wrong, but I still don't think it counts because at that point Warner wasn't a franchise QB. He proved it by sucking in NY.

I will admit it's close and just a matter of perception whether it counts.

Actually Warner was still a Franchise QB as he proved later with the Cardinals taking them to the Super Bowl.

Just not that one year in NY.

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Marguide Newbie

Marguide

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I don't think anyone outside of Oakland thought Palmer was a franchise QB when he forced his way out of Cincinnati.

Now Jawny, it's time to go back in time a couple years...

Don't you remember some of the arguments on here pre-draft with a pretty sizeable contingent thinking we should draft Dareus or someone other than Cam and try to get Palmer or Kolb? You and I may not have considered him a franchise guy, but many thought he could be the guy again in the right environment.

I will say this again, I love Cam Newton (that should be obvious by now) but he can do a A LOT more to help us win those one score games. And I think Cam would agree with me. I don't think he blames Ron or JR for these last two seasons. i think he blames himself first and foremost. Which is a good thing because he realizes that he can get better, and as a result the team will get better.

Of course he blames himself. That is what the great players usually do. But Cam is very ambitious and wants to be remembered as one of the greats. Should we continue to lose (and I don't think we will long-term), at some point it might wear on him enough to act as a de-motivator.

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Kevin Greene Newbie

Kevin Greene

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Kurt Warner was not a franchise QB. I would be decent with.Fotz, Boldin, Torry Holt and Issac Bruce...AND 28

OK.....

So the 4600 yards and 30 TDs and the 1200 additional yards he tacked on in the 2008 Playoffs on the way to the Super Bowl don't qualify as Franchise numbers.

Just what parameters do?

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teeray Collaborator

teeray

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The only close game you can even come close to putting on Cam is Seattle and even that one I have to split with Chud because I don't agree with that lower percentage play at that point in the game where they were.

Before you cite the fumble in Atl, that's just the sort of thing that happens. It didn't end our chances of running out the clock, Rivera refusing to let him fall forward on 4th and 1 and Nakamura take full blame for that game.

The Dallas game he had a drive with a chance to win and didn't succeed. But I usually don't blame one person for any game we lose. Even a QB. But I think we can all agree that Cam struggled some at the beginning of the season, and we may have left some games on the table by not being more efficient on offense.

Hey, I am one of the founding members of the Cam Newton Nuthuggers Society, so I am not blaming Cam individually for the losses. However, there are things Cam can get better at that will eventually be the difference between 7-9 and 10-6 or better.

It isn't like he is throwing 35+ tds and having less than 10 INTs these last 2 seasons. I hope and think that may be where he is heading, but he has a lot of growing yet to do as a QB. And as he improves, we will win more, and thus he will still be happy.

And all will be well.

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Awesomeness!! Newbie

Awesomeness!!

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OK.....

So the 4600 yards and 30 TDs and the 1200 additional yards he tacked on in the 2008 Playoffs on the way to the Super Bowl don't qualify as Franchise numbers.

Just what parameters do?

Look what he "did" in NY. Respond accordingly. Not to mention Brady Quinn looked like Joe Montana a month ago.

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teeray Collaborator

teeray

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Now Jawny, it's time to go back in time a couple years...

Don't you remember some of the arguments on here pre-draft with a pretty sizeable contingent thinking we should draft Dareus or someone other than Cam and try to get Palmer or Kolb? You and I may not have considered him a franchise guy, but many though he could be the guy again in the right environment.

And those people were dumb. :o You think Hurney gets poo now, could you imagine if he would have mortgaged our future on one of those guys AND/or passed on Cam Newton.

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Kevin Greene Newbie

Kevin Greene

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Look what he "did" in NY. Respond accordingly. Not to mention Brady Quinn looked like Joe Montana a month ago.

Let's see....

2004 with the Gmen Warner started the 1st 9 games of the season going 5-4.

2100 passing yards, 63% of passes completed, 86.5 QB rating.

At that point the HC handed the ball to Eli who promptly finished the season 1-6.

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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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Actually Warner was still a Franchise QB as he proved later with the Cardinals taking them to the Super Bowl.

Just not that one year in NY.

I said Warner was not a franchise QB at the time, which he proved by sucking in NY. He's only been a franchise QB when he has not 1, but 2 elite WRs.

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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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Now Jawny, it's time to go back in time a couple years...

Don't you remember some of the arguments on here pre-draft with a pretty sizeable contingent thinking we should draft Dareus or someone other than Cam and try to get Palmer or Kolb? You and I may not have considered him a franchise guy, but many thought he could be the guy again in the right environment.

I remember those talks here, and I'm pretty sure all the arguments for him were not because he was a franchise QB but some felt he could be a serviceable stopgap since at one point no one trout there were any franchise QBs in that draft. At best he was viewed as a potential Delhomme.

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JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

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OK.....

So the 4600 yards and 30 TDs and the 1200 additional yards he tacked on in the 2008 Playoffs on the way to the Super Bowl don't qualify as Franchise numbers.

Just what parameters do?

And I'm not saying Warner was a bad QB. I do think he is a bit overhyped, since he's always had to have two elite WRs to be good, but if you put him on a middle of the road team (like the Giants that year) he'll play middle of the road. If you give him a great OC and two great WRs he'll play great. He was only as good as those around him, whereas the truly elite "franchise" guys I think of make the guys around them better.

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