Is there an agenda behind the anti dual threat, hybrid or read option QBs

[tiger7_88]

Those of you above that are of the opinion that what Cam, Kaep, RG3, and (to a lesser extent) Wilson are doing is the same thing that all the other QBs are doing, past and present?

Ummmm... OK.

Wow.

[FootballMaestro]

Also, the advantage RG3 had over Cam is that he played in the spread offense throwing the ball 40-50 times a game. From short to intermediate to long. While Cam play the zone read throwing the ball 15-20 times. That's why you notice Cam seems to struggle on short passes thus requiring more times to adapt. RG3 on the other hand can adapt to any offense because he spent 3 years in college throwing the ball 40 times a game. That might be the difference. Meaning RG3 was more polished. Cam only played 1 year in college. That's incredible how he was able to be the number 1 pick.

You and I both know Kousins wasn't beating RG3 in training. They picked Cousins so they could get their first round pick back on a future trade. Thus the organization leaked out meaningless info to put his name out there as some big time player. Andy reid did the same thing with colb.

So, you're telling me shanahan left RG3 playing hurt on one Leg in a playoffs game while a healthy two-legged big time star who was beating RG3 in camp sit in the sideline and watch? Let's not be crazy here. If that story were true, we'll find out how many teams show interest in Kousins in free agency where it matters. I doubt Kousins wants to be a back up the rest of his career.

Nothing wrong with giving credit where it's due. Game recognize game!

I've watched RG3 play. He doesn't read NFL defenses much. That's not what he's asked to do.

Most of Washington's offense is based off misdirection and play action. He's like a WCO QB, that play actions, bootlegs and Read Options most of the time. Yes, give him credit for his timing and accuracy. Absolutely! However, you could say the same about Alex Smith. So please don't say RG3 makes a lot of tough throws, cause he doesn't.

I"ve seen more tough throws in 1 Cam game sometimes, than I've seen RG3 make during stretches of games or the entire season, it seems.

And Griffin cannot throw the ball on a rope down field. He's needs loft to do that. His deep ball is okay. So I'm not sure what you're saying. Like I said, I've seen Cam throw the ball into extreme tight windows on a rope, that RG3 doesn't. He usually throws to wide open receivers. During Cam's rookie season, he even lofted some brilliant throws (like against Wash in 2011 for a TD) into super tight coverage.

Cousin's was reported to be better during camp. And RG3 was having trouble. This was widely reported or speculated during the pre-season. The reason why RG3 started, is the same reason why he played on one leg in the playoffs when he shouldn't have. The Redskins have a great investment in him; RG3's a run threat, and the DC fans loved him (even before he played his first game). They created a monster.

I'm not telling you RG3 doesn't have some attributes. Of course he does. But to compare him to Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees at this stage, is almost laughable, based off of what we seen (or haven't ) so far. SMH

Like I said earlier: Put RG3 on this years Panthers, with that offensive line, and he has a horrible year or doesn't finish the season. And I don't want Cam to run a majority gimmick offense, the way RG3 does either. I want Cam to be a pocket QB first, then run when he has to or a few designed plays a game.

When RG3 can play like that; get back to me! Cause my EYE Test Tells Me, that RG3 is not yet an NFL Drop back/Pocket, multi-read Quarterback at this stage.

[BigSyke]

i think it was cam first game against arizona when he read the defense and changed the play....after that he hit smith on that 70 yard td. cam also can be the most accuarte qb in the game then miss on some passes. its not whether cam can do the the things of an elite qb...its whether he can be CONSISTENT all through the year which makes him an elite qb.

here are some pinpoint throws by newton..check these times on the video- 2:10,3;05,5:07,5:34,5:56,8:06,9:22

[FootballMaestro]

i think it was cam first game against arizona when he read the defense and changed the play....after that he hit smith on that 70 yard td. cam also can be the most accuarte qb in the game then miss on some passes. its not whether cam can do the the things of an elite qb...its whether he can be CONSISTENT all through the year which makes him an elite qb.

here are some pinpoint throws by newton..check these times on the video- 2:10,3;05,5:07,5:34,5:56,8:06,9:22

You are 100% correct.

I didn't watch the video yet. However, I've seen a lot of Cam videos (and games) and know what you mean. The question is not whether or not Cam make outstanding pro throws, cause he does. It's more a matter of consistency. However, I will add, that Eli Manning (a 2x Superbowl winner), is like Cam in the sense, where he can throw great, have some lapses, then come out throwing gangbusters again in a game. The good thing for Cam is: He's entering his third season, and we hope the way he ended 2012, is the way he'll perform through out 2013. You listening Shula?

And you're right, Cam did audible his first two NFL games for some outstanding TD passes.

I guess Chud the control freak, had enough of that, till they started sucking again and Hurney got fired. LOL

[Mr. Scot]

You lose all credibility once you mention The Golden Calf of Bristol & Collin Klein. I don't think this thread is about QBs that can't throw. I don't think anyone here brought up any QB that didn't know how to throw. I think you're lost in translation.

Klein will not be drafted as a QB. He was already asked to change his position to TE. Most of the QBs mentioned so far were either high 1st rounders or teams traded down specifically to get them. Heck, The Golden Calf of Bristol was not even fast at all. He was as fast as a lot of pocket passers. The Golden Calf of Bristol ran a 4.71. He wasn't gonna outrun anybody.

Aaron Rodgers isn't a ball of fire on the open field either. He ran a 4.77

The Golden Calf of Bristol's and Collin Klein aren't athletic QBs? :lol:

Gee now, why would those two be excluded? :rolleyes:

Now the throw the ball up in the air and let torey & and boldin come down with it Flacco is a great player now because he is in the superbowl. Is that the standard now? So if you're a QB in a team with a great defense that makes the superbowl makes you a great player? The guy was on the brink of not being resigned until the Ravens keep the high power NE offense to 13 points. I hope that applies to everyone and not certain pocket passer type. Because if that's the case Kaepernick should sign his name on the dotted line as being great too. Let me guess, he has too little experience? So players can't be gifted overachiever?

Bottom line is, you only name 2 dual threat QBs in the last 15 years who didn't succeed while every pocket passers in the last 5 years are just busts occupying a roster spot instead of difference makers.

Did you notice that there are a bottom 15 to 20 QBs who has never sniffed or even on the cusp of ever even making the playoffs and they're all pocket passers with pocket passer as their back up with pocket passers as their 3rd string. Those teams are in eternal mediocrity with their QBs. Fitzpatrick, Colb, Lindly, palmer, linart, cassell, locker, gabbert, weeden, stafford(?), bradford(?), etc.

I don't wanna hear anybody complaining about the only 4 dual threat QBs in the league that are all in the hunt for the playoffs. Don't wanna hear it. There are enough colbs, lindlys, cassells, lockers, etc. to worry about. Those guys are only playing because their organization is stuck with them and those dual threat QBs are hard to come by.

Only bothered to name two. There are also guys like Pat White, Vince Young, Eric Crouch, Akili Smith, Terrelle Pryor and others, including yes, The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Problem is that it's pretty clear from the way you argue that you really don't get it at all.

These guys don't fail because they are dual threat QBs. They fail because they aren't.

To be an actual dual threat QB, you have to be good at both running and passing. These guys were only good at one of the two, and it was the wrong one for a pro quarterback. You can succeed as a pro quarterback without being a good runner. You have zero shot if you aren't a good enough passer.

There's no agenda against dual threat QBs. The whole notion is beyond stupid to even consider. Any team would love to have a dual threat QB. The actual problem is that true dual threats are fairly rare in the draft pool.

uys like Newton and Kaepernick don't grow on trees. And a lot of college quarterbacks who want to be dual threat QBs just aren't good enough passers to do so. If they were, they'd succeed. And believe me, teams would love it if they could.

Bottom Line: You've created a conspiracy in your mind that doesn't exist in the real world, and it's pretty clear in your posts that you'll ignore actual facts in order to defend the notion. Problem is the notion you have is a silly one. Teams having an agenda against guys that could help them win would be shooting themselves in the foot.

The whole premise is just goofy.

[Guest BlueBoy]

Actually Vick's OL were pretty good the year Ray Lewis broke his leg. But then regardless of whether his line was good or bad, Vick's finished...what? Two seasons without missing a game? Lousy example to use as a dual threat since he was never that great a passer.

And Culpepper? Seriously? Culpepper became utter crap the moment he lost Randy Moss as a receiver. He was the worst quarterback in the league well before Chris Gamble took his knee out.

As to the last five years, there have been precious few great QBs of any stripe that have come out, but the notion that only the pocket passers have been busts is dumb. This year's guys are too young to judge just yet, but guys like Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder and Matt Stafford are all pretty decent. Heck, even T J Yates had good moments. Oh, and there's also this guy who's playing in the Super Bowl next week.. Fellow by the name of Flacco. He was drafted in 2008.

Yeesh :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor and give up on this idea that only black QBs and read option guys are dual threats. Steve Young was one of the best ever and great at both areas. For that matter, very few pocket passers are all that immobile (Dan Marino was an exception, not a norm). They just aren't great running threats. And yet somehow, guys like Brees, Manning and Brady still manage some level of success even without that talent. And let's not forget a guy like Aaron Rodgers, someone who's perfectly capable of running but doesn't need to because he's extremely effective as a passer.

Bottom Line: Passing is still the skill quarterbacks need most to succeed. Running is a nice thing to have, but not necessary to become a winner.

And that's not likely to change anytime soon.

Speaking of brees and Brady, of course if you have all 32 QBs in the league being all pocket passers one or two will come out on top. As the number of dual threat QBs multiply and the types of numbers they will be racking up when we look back to brees and Brady's time they gonna look pedestrian. Guys like brees and Brady leave so many first down on the field they can't compete with guys like Cam who keeps the chain moving when there nothing down field. Those guys were good for what they were ask to do. The full potential of QB has not been realized yet.

[Guest BlueBoy]

Oh good grief. Who the heck is "forcing someone not to use their natural talents"? That's one of the silliest things I've read on on here in a while :rolleyes:

And again we have the same "game is changing" stuff that's people have been saying for years. What's especially goofy about it is people act like mobile quarterbacks are something new. Those of us old enough to remember guys like Fran Tarkenton know better.

No doubt someone will say "but the quarterbacks now are better athletes than those back then". Indeed they are. So are the linebackers, defensive tackles, tight ends, offensive linemen and pretty much every other position on the field.

The only actual change I've seen is the game is evolving more and more toward passing, so the ability to be an effective passer is more important than ever.

If you can also run, that's great, but rely on it too much and you risk shortening your career. If you're a great runner but a lousy passer, you'll be lucky to have much of a career at all.

I don't know what people mean by revolutionize but I know teams that are in the Same division as those dual threat QBs will try to counter with their own especially if they keep getting manhandled by the like of Can & Kaepernick every year. If their defense can't do it they will try to get their own QB who doesn't leave first Downs on the field. Some people even believe the reason the cowboys change their defense to a 4-3 is because of the rg3 threat. That's probably what they mean by revolutionizing.

[GSO_Pantherz]

yeah, Super Bowl winning Qbs can't compete with Cam...

[Mr. Scot]

Guys like brees and Brady leave so many first down on the field they can't compete with guys like Cam who keeps the chain moving when there nothing down field.

I'm gonna assume you're trolling at this point because I'd like to think someone wouldn't actually believe something this goofy :unsure:

[Guest BlueBoy]

i think it was cam first game against arizona when he read the defense and changed the play....after that he hit smith on that 70 yard td. cam also can be the most accuarte qb in the game then miss on some passes. its not whether cam can do the the things of an elite qb...its whether he can be CONSISTENT all through the year which makes him an elite qb.

here are some pinpoint throws by newton..check these times on the video- 2:10,3;05,5:07,5:34,5:56,8:06,9:22

Go watch Cam's 2nd game against the falcons. He started very hot making some tight throws to Olsen then a couple possessions later he sailed Smith twice in the endzone giving him no opportunity at all to catch the ball. All I'm saying is Cam can make all the throws but he does go through his Eli moments that gets people scratching their heads. But gifted passers consistently put the ball the same place whether it rains or snow. remember that short hop Cam threw in the endzone that cost us the game against seatle? I think if Cam was putting the ball up 40 times a game in college he wouldn't have those moments. Just need more reps.