All Activity

Which grades were incorrect?

They don't use stats for their player grades. Period. They straight up tell you that. https://www.pff.com/grades "Their system" was arbitrarily created by them. A PFF grade reflects PFF's opinion of a player's performance based on an evaluation system they constructed. That's it, that's all. It's a piece of information. It's not an end all be all of anything.

Well it saves on cash if you can rely on a rotation of guys because your front seven is so good. Ron Rivera made Kurt Coleman look like a god, for example.

Terrace Marshall getting some first team WR reps. #Eagles https://x.com/brandongowton/status/1949125188139806763?s=46

PFF explicitly said that they use advanced statistics, but you're saying they don't, and I don't understand English. Like I said, @LinvilleGorgeyou just want to be contentious. Out of everything in the thread and me even talking about Icky despite PFF, that's what you hone in on. LOL

Is it yours?

Is English your native language?

The loser mentality is definitely prevalent unfortunately. It can even trickle down to the fanbase and if you've looked around enough you've seen it. Although I think Hornets fans are wired differently than Panthers fans in that regard. The biggest thing with Princely or any of these other 1st or 2nd year players is backing it up. And there is a thin line between confidence and being a cocky jackass. But for now we definitely need more alpha energy and guys willing to set an example and I welcome it with open arms. Think about how much this fanbase griped about Brian Burns. That's why I've said just let these young guys be themselves and see where it takes us. Don't try to squash their confidence over small things. That's what we've been begging for so let it play out.

I trust that we will. Dan wanta to be practical, but also is a realist. We paid Jaycee despite the injuries; we'll pay Icky despite his pass blocking imperfections, which mainly comes down to what I call "brain farts," a.k.a. inconsistencies. The only way I can't see is paying him is that if his play just falls off a cliff, and I don't think that's realistic. Even then we may him, just at a contract commensurate with his level of production. I'd prefer they get him his money before the season, that way we'll get better value, but who knows?

Honestly...I don't mind cockiness in an NFL player, even a young buck, but if you're going to be cocky, you damned sure better well bring the juice, even with the pads on.

I think Icky is 24 or 25 years old. Think about that, he's had 4 full years in the NFL and only 25 years old. Heres a fact- Its harder to find good LTs than good QBs. Im not a big fan of his, at worst he's average among LTs. You have to pay him the going rate if not more cause you already got 4 years on one hell of a bargain. Panthers have invested 4 years and can not allow him good/great/average pass pro to walk. Heres another deal, the best LT is Trent williams and he is 37 years old. Id 100% take Icky over him right now, all based on age. Toss another comment, love it or hate it he's very similar in ways to Dbrown who's sorta "sucks"(borrowing Icky haters words) at pass rushing, while being great at run defense. Icky great at run and "sucks"(BS he's average or better) at pass protection. Just like dbrown there's no off-field non-sense and Panthers paid Dbrown. They should do the same with Icky.

I mean, what are we arguing about here? I don't think anyone at this point (at least I hope) thinks that Icky is dog sh¡t. Now is he a top five OT in the league? No. Is that going to stop him from being paid like one? Maybe not if the nature of the beast---the business of player contracts and their negotiations within the context of recent history---comes into play. I think that we can all agree that Icky leaves a lot to be desired in pass pro, but is a beast in run blocking. Some suspect that he may be better as an OG, but the fact is is that even average LTs are hard to come by. As long as we don't have an elite LT, the belief that one is in the draft (and transcends other needs), the patience to wait for one to emerge, or the money and willingness to buy one, Icky is our best option. I think that we can all see that, regardless of PFF, right?

The main deal with Prince is, how will pads affect his type of play?? Just like I feel pads will greatly help Nic scourton, I feel they will hurt Prince "practice" play dominance. My deal is after years of straight up weak ass players playing soft, I more than welcome this confidence. He just needs to beware that its a thin line to cockiness and that's what you DO NOT want. I hope he does "break teppers pockets" in 3-4 years, I low key loved that line to the owner of ALL people....plus the fact its David Tepper the only 100% owner......I hope he's as good as he thinks he is..... This is similar to hornets drafting all those gym rats, full effort rookies...... Panthers do have a loser mentality same as hornets. New blood can help change that, by the looks of everything....... Panthers have some rookies that are not going to fall in line with the loser sink of the past 6 years. I mean nearly everyone UDFAs, 2025 drafted class, and free agent class that's one hell of culture adjustment.

And, for the record, PFF refers to its stats (and not just as a name): https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-premium-stats-highlighting-all-of-pffs-advanced-metrics-and-grades They don't grade "arbitrarily" either, they use their system.

"spiderman Light" I miss the boat with Brano. I thought at worst he would be a ST ace. I had him as the top backup that gets 8 sacks. (in a minor defense, he was a gunner on ST a few times). Think like Al Wallace or Mario Addison, he just didn't have the drive or talent it seems. He's been injured for 2 years now and was "hurt" during the OTAs, mini camp......Panthers honestly kept him much longer than they should. Maybe he will realize the NFL is not a rehab facility. 6th rounders do have less success than UDFAs.

No, I have read too many things from PFF over the years; PFF specifically said that they use advanced statistics, but that statistics don't tell the entire story, which is why they came up with their system. At this point you're just being adversarial for no reason. Stats play a big role in what they do.

You might want to re-read that. They're specifically saying they DON'T use stats. They arbitrarily judge each play and then extrapolate that into a grade.

This!

You're correct (on its face). But PFF does indeed use advanced stats to come up with their grades. Not trying to turn this into a debate about PFF (at all because it's been done ad nauseum), but here is how PFF explains it: GRADES VS. STATS We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet. Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch. PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded. The same is true for most positions. Statistics can be misleading. A tackle whose quarterback gets the ball out of his hands quicker than anybody else may not give up many sacks, but he can still be beaten often and earn a poor grade. Receivers that are targeted relentlessly could post big-time numbers but may offer little more than the product of a volume-based aerial attack. https://www.pff.com/grades So PFF uses stats to come up with player grades and rankings.

Not even what that's about. Moreover, remember that search engines are a tool.

Knowing how a person is compared to everyone else is always better.

PFF grades aren't stats.

Icky is a great run blocker and solid pass blocker. Keep in mind he is only 24 and has been through Rhule, Wilks, Reich, Tabor, and now Canales. He finally gets a second year of the same offense which is good for someone considered pretty raw in pass blocking coming out of college. I love the fire from Princely! Keep it coming and I hope it’s contagious!