SmokinwithWilly

He's been suggested a few times as someone with the physical skills who was young and could possibly fit the system DC runs. A throw it at the wall and see if he sticks option.

Here's the thing. You compared him to Jake. Jake was signed to the practice squad out of college. Bryce was the number 1 overall. Their expectations are wildly different and so are their contracts. You can talk all you want about what a player is and where they are now and all this other mumbo jumbo, but Jake never had a 5th year option and we weren't talking about the possibility of a top 5 QB contract extension at the end of his 3rd year. What he was expected to be matters because we invested heavily at a cost of future capital, including a 2nd round pick this year, for him to be that guy. The cost to add Bryce took value from the team. To be worth it, he has to add that value back. Actually, I don't prefer yards, TDs, or only INTs. All those stats by themselves are misleading which is why I said you have to use a lot of different stats. ADOT - Average depth of target. Completion %. Pretty obvious until you factor in ADOT. 0-5 has a lot higher C% than 10-15%. Hang time. If a pass is in the air for 4.6 seconds vs 3.1 on a 40 yards throw, that gives a DB a lot of time to correct. Is it a loft or is it a laser. EPA - Expected points added. A way of measuring QB efficiency on every play. CPOE - ranking pass completions based on several factors, not just the throw. There's obviously more, but those are the more common. Typical stats don't show everything. You need to look all over. Looking at a stat line is lazy. That's why I said, you need to analyze everything. Once you start looking at the numbers you start looking at the player. That's why you follow numbers. They lead you places. You look at what happening when the numbers show you patterns. That's where you start finding the problems that yards, TDs and Ints won't show you.

It's how we ended up with Brian Burns and not Greg Little in the 1st. Dan Snyder overruled his entire staff and took Dwayne Haskins RIP. If Burns had been the selection like many expected, Hurney had already said he was taking Little at 16. That would have brought his 1st round success rate down a few pegs. Woof!

I'm not a glazer, and I don't think he's the 2nd coming of PM, I think he was in a very bad situation in Washington behind an oline as bad or worse than Vegas' this year. He was under pressure constantly. Like David Carr's rookie year in Houston pressure. It's hard to really judge a guy under those circumstances. I think he has the tools to be a QB in the NFL and he could work in the system that DC likes to run. At worst, he's an improvement over Dalton. At best, we find someone who can push for the starting role or take it and get some stability at the position. If he doesn't work out, we move on. There's nothing wrong with taking a look at the guy.

I'm not denying any reality. I've been watching it for 3 years. You've been arguing that he is significantly improving beating the top teams in the NFL. I'm arguing he isn't. He may be part of the wins but his part is not significant in those wins. Who are these top teams that he is leading the way, putting the entire team on his shoulders and carrying them to victory when no one else can? Where are these dominant performances against Super Bowl contenders that leave no question Bryce is the franchise QB we traded a fortune to get at #1? He hasn't done anything that any other mid tier QB isn't already doing. He was brought into this league expected to start at a 7. That is what he needed to be to be a legitimate day 1 starter for any serious NFL team. He started at a 1. He's improved to a 6 on a really good day, a 9 on his outlier ATL game, a 3 on most days, and a 0/1 on his worst. He's still below where he needs to be. It doesn't matter that he's improved. His improvement may look significant overall to you because he started as the worst in NFL history, but even so, his improvement still leaves him worse than your average NFL QB. I'm not doing any mental gymnastics. You're making the argument that Bryce is key to us winning these games. I don't think he is. I think you replace him with 20 other QBs and the outcome is the same or better. Judging by the statistics you openly don't use or believe in, Bryce is in the bottom 3rd of the NFL as a QB. The eye test for this year says he is the bottom 3rd in the NFL. You yourself say he should be replaced. But I'm the one doing gymnastics?

Been in competitive sports all my life. Not been my experience ever.

Security blanket or not, Dalton is done. He can't win a game as a backup or even compete at a minimal level. He needs to go. Bryce has had a woobie for 3 years. Time to put that away.

87% of the time

That's what mini megaphones are for. It can end up with a trip to HR. I can neither confirm nor deny this. All I can confirm is that it's really funny the day before thanksgiving on the mic in the grocery store.

I've said the same thing. Give him a chance behind this type of line and he might surprise some people. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But he can't be worse than Dalton, and even if he is, it's not like Andy was winning us any games, or even being competitive.

It's not a wild theory. If Bryce is the guaranteed starter next year, regardless of what happens in camp, that's a mandate from either Dan or Tepper. You don't think that if DC or the players see that QB2 is seriously outplaying BY in camp, but BY is still the guaranteed starter, that won't affect things? You can't lead when it's clear you're not the one making the decisions. And if Dave is the one forcing BY to be the starter no matter what, it's still and issue because he needs more evaluation. At some point the evaluation has to stop, no more leadership councils, and just do what's best for the team. Let your best players play. How do you think history would have treated Bellichek if he had benched Brady after Bledsoe came back from injury? You have to do what's best for the team as a whole, not just one player.

We won. But why did we win? Did we win because Bryce led a commanding offense all day? Or, did we win because of 3 extremely well timed turnovers that resulted in a huge swing in points? I'm going with the latter. Bryce did his part, but he did not dominate this game the way you are trying to make it sound. We beat the Rams on this given Sunday. He beat a 4-8 Atlanta team. Put up his best game statistically against them aided by 250 YAC. Wouldn't exactly call that a great team, even though they had the best passing D at that time. We beat GB. He was forgettable and the defense held GB to 13 points with 6 trips into the red zone We beat the Jets. Very good team? 13 points. Offensive juggernaut performance there Dallas and Miami - Rico does something not seen in the NFL in 14 years. 500 yards of offense by a RB. Our offense ran through him. More rushing yards than passing. Bryce was riding his coat tails against the 2 worst defenses in the NFL. 1st ATL win 30-0 - Again, forgettable Bryce performance. Defense destroyed Penix and he imploded. We won't agree on this at all. We've beaten the Rams with 3 key defensive turnovers resulting in a huge point swing on Stafford's worst performance of the year and GB with our defense making huge defensive stands in the red zone in really bad weather. Nothing he's done I wouldn't expect from a mid level starting QB in the NFL. But remember. The highs got higher last year and then he went swimming in the sewer to start this year. Insert another mid tier QB behind this line with our RBs and our record is the same if not better.

If you tell another QB you're being brought in but Bryce is the starter no matter what, Dave is being forced. Hypothetically, we trade for Howell and in camp he looks like prime Tom Brady. He's riding the pines because Bryce is the starter and that's just the way it's gonna be. Dave's checking out. Why? Because that's not what's best for him or his team. If Dave is the one doing the forcing, then that is a symptom of an even bigger problem which is what many of us have been saying, no one knows what the hell Bryce is as a QB. You only lock in your QB when you have to evaluate him at all costs. If we still need to evaluate in year 4, then the QB competition needs to be wide open.

Just because I shoot an 80 on the golf course one day doesn't mean that's what I'm capable of on a regular basis. That's just the day everything came together perfectly. That's an outlier. 250 YAC is most definitely an outlier. The best way to evaluate is to remove his best outlier and his worst and evaluate everything that remains. That gives a more accurate picture of the season as a whole.

Then I would expect Dave Canales to take the path of Frank. You cannot force a coach to be tied to a QB no matter the results. Frank checked out because of this. Dave will too.

Or letting desperate teams trade up and give you day 2 picks and you still draft the guy you wanted anyway.

God if only anyone could have seen this coming last year and brought in real camp competition this off season. If only this were foreseeable. Right now I think we are in the driver's seat in the NFCS if Brissett had been brought in instead of Dalton. JMO, but for 2m more per season a legit NFL backup who given the opportunity has shown he can throw the ball this season and would have competed for the starting job this year. It feels like this off season we're going to make the dumbest decision no matter what so I fully expect the ghost of QBs past and Jack Plummer back at training camp.

Jake was not the 1st overall pick either. There's a level of expected readiness that comes from being drafted at that position. Pre draft, Bryce was the most NFL ready QB in a decade according to experts, top QB across multiple draft boards. That was never Jake. So comparing him to Jake's career path is disingenuous. I don't see legitimate significant improvement. I see an outlier game in Atl and good plays dropped here and there, but overall, the bulk product hasn't been anything that has made me think we need to extend him, or option him. Matt Flynn had a 400 yard outlier game, got a huge contract, and disappeared into obscurity. Take away Bryce's best and worst game each season as the outliers and analyze the rest. It all looks the same. Never a complete QB driven game start to finish. A lot of poor placement. Some good throws. Same bad mechanics and bad footwork. Not enough to say give me 2 more years of this

Keep getting guys on a 1 year prove it deal and let someone else pay the big money contract. A strong offensive line will get you good RB production.

Tepper probably has an algorithm for that

I was trying to joke a little. Everyone has been so serious lately.

Hearing this reminded me of this song on Bob and Tom

We could always bring back Plummer. I think i just threw up a little.

Stats have to be used as a piece in interpretation of the whole which is what I was saying. There's lots of different stats that can be used to evaluate players besides the stat line at the end of the game. T2G had a high completion % because he constantly checked down for short passes. A QB passing 0-5 yards is likely going to have a higher completion than one making passes 10-15 yards regularly. They're higher % passes. How far is RB1 getting beyond the line of scrimmage before contact? Rico is averaging 6 ypc. Jeantry has 3 ypc but is getting contacted often behind the line. What if Dowdle were getting less than a yard after contact but Jeantry was getting 2.5? Who's the better runner then? Bryce keeps getting credited with all these games winning drives. The final drive vs Atl, Bryce get credit for a 54 yard pass when in reality, he completed a basic 5 yard pass and Tremble ran over multiple defenders for nearly 50 yards. Then he hands off 3 times to set up the field goal. Now did he put the team on his back and lead the drive, or is he the beneficiary of a statistic? Does handing the ball off once after a fumbles recovery followed by a field goal count as leading a drive? Multiple stats tell different parts of the story from different angles. You have to use them together to wisely interpret what it means. No one said solely depend on the stats. But if you analyze them, use them as the tools that they are, you can learn a lot and create advantages for yourself and your team. Take what's available and determine what's worth using and what's not. But don't just ignore stats because you're scared you might be wrong.

I can't see anyone but Vabrel getting it. He turned that team around in a big damn hurry.