SCO96

This is why trading back can backfire at times. You plan to get a guy at a certain spot and right before you get on the clock another team nabs him. But, there are 31 other teams in the league. If you like a guy, chances are one of the other front offices around the league will feel the same way.

If we could do that to pick up an extra 2nd round choice that would be nice.

I agree with you...but I can understand if we took Barmore. He had 8 sacks last year as an interior d-lineman. That's a lot for a DT. You put him next to Derrick Brown as our 3 technique pass rusher and we could end up with the best pash rush in the NFC South.

Anything possible, but I don't think we have to worry about that. In our lifetimes the Chicago Bears have NEVER produced a superstar/franchise quarterback. Just take a look at their history since the superbowl era began in 1966. In our lifetimes, the OHiO State Buckeyes have NEVER produced a superstar/franchise quarterback. The coach/gm combo of Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace doesn't send the proverbial chills up my spine. If Fields doesn't become a baller, both of those guys will be out of a job by 2025...possibly sooner. If history shows us anything, Fields went to a franchise where QB go to die. If ...or more likely when...Nagy and Pace are fired Fields will be shown the door for Chicago's next "franchise" QB to repeat the cycle. PS...I actually want Fields to succeed in Chicago. It'd be nice to see Chicago finally draft a good QB. I just hope he's less successful than Sam Darnold or whoever the Panthers have behind center while he's playing there.

Great comment. Some people on this board seem to under the impression that getting a QB in the top 10 of the 2021 draft was the only way the Panthers could be successful for the rest of the decade. 1) As some have pointed there's no guarantee Fields (or any of these guys) are going to be championship winners in the NFL. 2) We have drafts every year. We can get a QB in 2022. Some are saying "next year's class sucks!". It's too early to say that. Zach Wilson didn't become a top prospect until his last season. Joe Burrow didn't set the world on fire until his final collegiate season. Mac Jones wasn't a first round prospect before 2020. Chances are a couple of good QBs will be in the 2022 draft class...and unlike some teams that have traded away all of their high choices we'll have first round choice next year if we need to pick a QB. 3) This team is young and a lot better than our 5-11 record indicates. A strong draft in 2021 should makes us better and a more desirable place for a QB that we could obtain via free agency or trade.

One of these guys will be available when we pick at 39. https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/bestavailable Trevon Moehrig (Safety) 1 POS RK 17 OVR RK 90 GRADE Moehrig excelled in a Cover 4 heavy scheme at TCU that frequently left him on an island working against slot receivers. He's a playmaker who shows good burst breaking on the ball and good timing breaking up passes. He's an above-average open-field tackler. Moehrig was voted TCU's Special Teams Most Valuable Player by his teammates in 2018. -- Steve Muench Andre Cisco (Safety) 2 POS RK 50 OVR RK 82 GRADE Pre-Draft Analysis Cisco is an interchangeable safety with a blend of size, length and range. He's a ball hawk and natural hands catcher. He appeared to make strides as a tackler on 2020 tape, but it's still a concern. -- Steve Muench Richie Grant (Safety) 3 POS RK 53 OVR RK 82 GRADE Pre-Draft Analysis Grant is undersized with good instincts, long arms and average top-end speed. He doesn't catch everything he gets his hands on, but he's a playmaker who tracks the ball well and picked off 10 passes in college. He's a solid tackler and a tough run-stopper who does not shy away from contact. -- Steve Muench

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/bestavailable Pre-Draft Analysis Owusu-Koramoah is an instinctive, agile and fast weakside linebacker who always seems to be around the ball. He's fluid, smooth and fast in coverage. He flashes the ability to pressure quarterbacks with his closing burst and suddenness. -- Steve Muench According to ESPN, he's the highest rated player still on the board. They have him at #12 overall. He's considered to be a 3 down player so he isn't a liability in the passing game. We need playmakers at every level of the defense. We really don't have an impact guy in our LB core. I would prefer a LT in round 2, but if this guy could play I wouldn't jump out of a window. He would make the defense better from day 1.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ot The top 3 OL left are ranked among the top 40 players on the draft board according to ESPN. We pick at 39. We should be able to get one of these guys without reaching for a player. I'm gonna post the top defensive backs a little later.

I personally wouldn't do it...but I could see the logic if you had a bonafide starter on the board tonight. On defense in today's NFL you cannot have too many pash rushers or DEFENSIVE BACKS. If we took a corner in the 2nd round and he turned out to be as good as Chris Gamble or Josh Norman for the next 4-5 seasons it would be a good move. I don't think we have a sure thing there though so I'd address another need. We are in position to get a solid LT early in the 2nd round.

I didn't realize Jacksonville had 2 picks in round one. But, I told a guy last week at work that I could see the Jags taking Etienne as the first pick in the 2nd round.

The Steelers' first four picks in the 1974 Draft ( Lynn Swann, Jack Lambert, Mike Webster, and John Stallworth) all made the Hall of Fame. They even found a Hall of Fame SS in Donnie Shell who was undrafted. Hey if it happened for them...who says it can't happen for us . Then again, I'd be content if we could get FOUR solid starters/Pro Bowlers from your perfect scenario.

We only had 7 INTs as a team last year. Donte was the only CB to get a pick on the 20/20 roster (He had 3). We've got to deal with Tampa, New Orleans, and that trio of beasts in in Atlanta (Jones, Ridley, and now Pitts) twice a year. I may have gone with the LT Slater to help our QBs stay upright...but this was not a bad pick. Jaycee balled out in the SEC. He's not a scrubb. We needed a cornerback. To be honest, we could use a couple of more, but I do hope we grab a LT in the 2nd round.

I think cornerback is a more demanding position in terms of physical ability. As you pointed out it's easier to dominate in the NFL as a WR than a CB. That's why I made my statement. But, I have to admit that you posted a good argument and it actually made me see things a little differently.

Gotta disagree with you on placing higher value on a WR than a CB. It's a lot easier to find quality WR's than CB's. PFF has 10 receivers in the 2021 draft ranked in the top 71 players. https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-rankings https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-cornerback-rankings. They have 10 cornerbacks in the top 72. But, after the 2nd round there is a steeper dropoff in talent than with the WR's. I don't think either of our starting wideouts would rank among the top 10 in the NFL. But, both played well and racked up over a 1,000 yards on receptions despite playing with a mediocre/average QB. DJ and Robbie would be solid starters on over half the teams in the league. Last season with the possible exception of Donte Jackson (the only CB on our team with an INT) none of our corners could start for the upper echelon teams in the NFL. I think a couple couldn't even make their rosters as backups. I'm not saying we should draft a CB at 8, but if we did I can at least understand the reasoning. I'd prefer a LT, or a trade down. I wouldn't even consider taking Justin Fields at #8 after trading for Darnold so I hope Mr. King is wrong on this one.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/type/team/name/car We scored an average of 21.9 points per game last season. Our Opponents averaged 25.1 per game. That's almost exactly a 3 point per game difference. In six of those losses we gave up over 30 points. We gave between 25, 27, and 28 points in 3 of the other losses. Yet, we only lost 3 games by more than a score. We were competitive in all of our defeats last season except the 2nd losses to Tampa and New Orleans. We were able to do so despite having a mediocre pass rush and a secondary that only picked off 7 passes the entire season. Only one CB on our roster had an INT last season (Donte had 3). The pass rush already looks to be significantly better. But, an improved pass rush can only do so much without help on the back end. With all of our offensive woes on the O-line since Jordan Gross retired, I would prefer to get a franchise LT at #8. But, if we got a CB there, or chose a CB with our 1st pick after moving down a little in the draft, I wouldn't be appalled. If the guy turned out to be as good as Chris Gamble, Josh Norman, or James Bradberry then he'd fill a major hole on the team and make us better immediately.

My fear is that we take Pitts, or Chase, in round 1 with the strategy of picking a LT (as you suggested above) in round 2. Then, right before we pick some shrew GM jumps ahead of us and grabs the LT we covet. If we think the guys mentioned above will drop, other GMs around league probably feel the same way. I could see someone trading back into the latter part of the 1st round to snatch a guy if they felt he could do the job which could leave us empty handed. I remember our disastrous draft in 2016. We ended up drafting 3 CB's in a row coming because Gettleman played hardball with Josh Norman and rescinded the franchise tag. Worley and Sanchez turned out to be wasted picks. Bradberry was good, but he's no longer with us. I recall G-Man saying something along the lines of "the board didn't fall the way we thought". I say grab the LT in round one "IF" you feel he's a can't miss prospect. I wouldn't even be opposed to grabbing another Tackle in round 2 because RT will be a position of need if we can't sign Moton to a long term deal after the 2021 season. If we do resign him, we could use the other guy for depth or move him inside to guard.

I don't doubt you can find some good interior lineman later in the draft. We need an good-great LT to hold things down for the next several year no matter who is behind center. They are a lot harder to find than Centers or Guards. The analyst are also saying that this is a very deep draft for receivers. I know we can find a quality WR later in the draft. I'm in agreement with everyone who says we need to take Sewell or Slater if they are available. I can see the reasoning for Pitts b/c he's such a freak of nature as a TE/WR. If he lives up to his potential I think we'd all be pleased with the selection. No way, would I use pick #8 for one of the receivers in this draft with all of our needs.

That last line sums it up. I mentioned Kilmer in one of my post. He's far from an all-time great, but I don't think he ever had a losing season while he was with the Redskins...oops...WTF...and He had them in the playoff hunt year in and year out. His HC, George Allen, NEVER coached a losing team in the NFL. The Redskins were no joke back in the 70's. You have to be "old school" like me to remember Billy Kilmer ...and I don't even remember him as the Redskin starter. When I really got into the NFL he was being phased out in favor of Joe Theisman

No doubt. Fortunately the teams that drafted them didn't have as much invested in them so when they failed it didn't set them back as much in terms of money and the overall success of the franchise.

I think the narrative that you have to draft a QB in the 1st round to win a Super bowl is causing some people to lose perspective. I'd love to see a thread to see a thread "How many QB's drafted in the 1st round have turned out to be busts? Or, how about this one "How many 1st round QB's never won a Super Bowl". We'd be here all day, possibly weekend, putting that list together.

I'm not just naming names. I answered his challenge posed in the post. The original post was What are some examples of QBs who were once considered huge busts, but revived their career on another team?. I named 9 guys who won SB's after being discarded by their original teams, Five of whom (Unitas, Dawson, Young, Favre, and Warner) are in the Hall of Fame. Plunkett won't make the Hall, but he was 2-0 in Super Bowl games. Drew Brees is a lock to make the HoF and is in fact the 10th guy to win a SB with his 2nd team. I don't see how I overlooked him in the first place. Ron Jarworski and Rich Gannon took their teams to SB births during their MVP seasons. Sonny Jurgenson was the all-time passer when he retired. A question was posed on the board and I named at least 15 guys who would qualify. I wouldn't have made the Darnold deal, but I am hoping to see if he can have a rebound in Carolina... and it's not like this deal with set us back for years if he bombs.

Not True. I can name 9 guys who won Super Bowls with their 2nd teams after failing with the team that drafted them/signed them out of college. John Unitas, Len Dawson, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner. That's just Super Bowl winners. Other guys have moved to other teams and performed well if you look at the entire history of the league. Sonny Jurgenson was booed out of Philadelphia and traded to a division rival in Washington. By the end of his career he was a Hall of Fame QB. His successor in Washington, Billy Kilmer, joined the team after several unaccomplished years with Saints early in his career. The Redskins never won a title with him in the 1970's, but they were perennial playoff team/playoff threat the entire decade and made the Super bowl in 1972 (where the were actually the favorite against the undefeated Miami 14-0 team...can you believe that?) Rich Gannon won an MVP years with his 3rd team (the Raiders) years after being drafted. Ron Jaworki won an MVP with his 2nd team in 1980 and took his team to a Super Bowl that year. We are all familiar with how Brees flourished in New Orleans under Sean Payton. Jake Delhomme took us the playoffs 3 times and almost won a Super Bowl. Tannehill has flourished with the Titans after getting away from Gase. You can even throw Doug Flutie (Heisman Winner) into this mix. He was considered a flop when he came to the NFL. He had to leave the league to play in the CFL for years. When he came back to the NFL he was more than serviceable for years with several teams. No one is saying that Darnold is the ultimate answer to our QB question in Carolina. But, it is "possible" that he can turn his career around. We didn't give up a lot to get him. We're surrounding him with a stronger supporting cast than he had in NY. All of the guys I mentioned above were a lot older than 23 when they hit their stride in the NFL. Let's see how things pan out. If they don't we can get a QB after the 2021 season.

Jim Plunkett. He won the Heisman Trophy at Stanford in 1970. He went to a pretty poor Patriot team and played there from 1970-1975. He was traded to the 49ers and played there for two season (1976-1977). He ended up with the Raiders in 1978 but saw no significant playing time until Dan Pastorini got hurt in 1980 and Plunkett finished out the season. The Raiders won the Super Bowl that year. They won it again in 1983 against a Redskin team that at the time was the highest scoring team in league history. His career win mark was only 72-72, but he was 8-2 in playoff games. PS...Plunkett (1970) and Roger Staubach (1963) are the only two Heisman QB's to win Super bowls. In fact, until Mayfield and Jackson played each other last year on a MNF game, the only other time it had ever happened was a 1977 game between the Cowboys and 49ers.

Most QB's who win SB's do so with the teams that drafted them. No one disputes that. I just gave you examples of 10 guys who did win with teams that didn't draft them. It doesn't matter when they played. They were reclamation projects that excelled when put in more favorable circumstances. Too many people feel like we had to get a franchise QB out of the 2021 draft. QB's come out of college every year. If any rookie QB is to succeed they need solid teams around them. That's hard to accomplish when you have to trade away multiple first round selections and other high draft choices for one player (who isn't lock to succeed in the first place). If we nail this draft this team should be a lot better in 2021. which helps Darnold. I hope he does well here. If he doesn't pan out, whoever we draft down the road, acquire via FA, or trade, is going to join a much better team than the one Rhule inherited in 2020 and be in a position to flourish.