SCO96

You can't judge a QB by his inability to win at his 1st NFL destination. The following championship QBs all won at later destinations after being cut/released or traded early in their career: John Unitas, Len Dawson, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner. Five of those guys are in the Hall of Fame. You can make an argument that Jim Plunkett should be. QB's don't win Super Bowls. Teams do. All of the above entered the league in less than optimal circumstances. After being given an opportunity with better organizations/teams they were able to excel. Sam Darnold came out of college and joined a franchise that hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 5 decades. Let's see how he does in a new environment before we label him an unsuccessful castoff.

You are correct sir. I didn't address those possibilities in this post. I actually discussed the trade-up possibilities in another thread I started minutes after I posted this.

I think it would likely be Denver. Atlanta would only have to move down 5 spots. They would be able to pick up an extra #1 for 2022 and still pick in the top 10 in 2021. New England (#15) and Chicago (#20) have much lower picks. But, you're right. They would be in play if Denver didn't make a move up to #4.

I agree. This means an awfully good non-QB player will likely fall to us at #8. We can still draft a QB if one is available, choose a blue chip player at another position (LT, TE, CB, etc), or trade down a few slots and acquire a second 1st round pick for the 2022 draft.

1. Jacksonville Jaguars 2. New York Jets 3. San Francisco 49ers (from Miami Dolphins via Houston Texans) 4. Atlanta Falcons 5. Cincinnati Bengals 6. Miami Dolphins (from Philadelphia Eagles) 7. Detroit Lions 8. Carolina Panthers 9. Denver Broncos 10. Dallas Cowboys Take a look at the draft order. We know which two QB's are going #1 and #2. SF is taking a QB @ #3 (we just don't know which one). If Atlanta stays @ #4 and decides to pass on QB things will get really interesting. That would leave two of the top five QB prospects on the board @ #5. The Bengals aren't taking a QB @5. If the Dolphins feel Tua is their guy, I can't see them taking a QB @6. I seriously doubt the Lions take one @ 7 since they just acquired Goff from the Rams. Two of the top 5 QB's could very well be in play when we come up at #8 if no trades occur between now and draft night. But, Atlanta is supposedly open to trading down from #4, which indicates that don't feel they need to get a replacement for Matt Ryan in the this draft. I could see them moving behind us to #9 if Denver (who may want to upgrade from Drew Lock) came with the right offer. That would leave one of the top 5 prospects on the board at pick #5. If a team thought we wanted that guy, somebody could make an offer to the Bengals, Dolphins, or Lions to leap ahead of us and grab him. That wouldn't hurt as much now that we have Darnold. It could also result in a couple of high prospects falling into out lap @ #8. We'd almost be assured of getting one of the two best tackles in the draft or possibly the TE Pitts. Here's another tantalizing possibility. What do we do if one of the top five QB's drops to 8 and we're offered a #1 (and possibly a couple of more draft choices) in the 2022 draft to move back? We could keep the pick and draft a QB to develop...or move down in round one and actually pick up a higher draft choice than the #2 we gave up for Sam Darnold in 2022. A big portion of how draft night goes from this point on could very well hinge on what our most bitter rival decides to do with the fourth pick in the 2021 draft.

We already know who's going one and two. Not sure what SF does at 3. I could see them taking Jones, Fields, or Lance. That leaves 2 of the top 5 on the board when the Falcon's pick (#4) comes up. "If they don't go QB" which is possible if they still have faith in Ryan, then those two QB's could still be on the board for pick 5. 1. Jacksonville Jaguars 2. New York Jets 3. San Francisco 49ers (from Miami Dolphins via Houston Texans) 4. Atlanta Falcons 5. Cincinnati Bengals 6. Miami Dolphins (from Philadelphia Eagles) 7. Detroit Lions 8. Carolina Panthers 9. Denver Broncos 10. Dallas Cowboys The Bengals aren't taking a QB @5 and. If the Dolphins feel Tua is their guy, I can't see them taking a QB @6. I seriously doubt the Lions take one @ 7 since they just acquired Goff from the Rams. Two of the top 5 QB's could very well be in play when we come up at #8.

I wasn't big on Darnold coming out, but I will admit that was partially due to my anti-USC QB bias. That said, even I realized he had enough physical tools make it in the NFL. He's had to carry quite a few burdens since leaving USC. 1) Stigma of USC QB's 2) Pressure of being a highly drafted as a franchise QB 3) Going to one of the worst run franchises in the NFL 4) Playing on what has been one of the least talented teams in the NFL for the past few years 5) Doing it all under the NY spotlight. Now he's going to a team that he knows actually want him has to make him feel appreciated and more determined to prove his critics wrong. He has solid weapons around him at the skill positions. Carolina had a strong draft last year and we're positioned to do so again in 2021. He's going to get better coaching. He should be better from the change in scenery alone. Add in the fact that Carolina really doesn't receive a lot of media coverage , which should take away a lot of the stress of being in the NY spotlight, Darnold could be poised to have a breakout year. I don't know if I would have had the nerve to make the move. But, we didn't give the up the house to get him, which is what we would have had to do to move up 4 or 5 spots to grab the more heralded QB's (none of whom are a lock for success in the NFL in the first couple of seasons). Darnold is only 23. He has time to improve. Worse case scenario we continue to build a solid team on both sides of the ball cut bait with him in 2 years when the contract expires and find a franchise QB via the draft or free agency.

I hate that we gave up a 2nd round pick in 2022. I would feel better if it were a 3rd choice. That said, unless he gets hurt, he should at least beat Teddy's career high TD mark of 15 last year. He threw for 17 and 19 TD's during his first two seasons. Last year he only had 11, but he missed 4 games and played on what was clearly the worst/2nd worst team in the league. i'm pulling for him...even if he possibly could be on the path to being another USC QB bust.

No guarantee he will be there if you trade down. If he's you're guy for the future then you take him at #8. If you have doubts then draft BPA at any of our positions of need: LT, CB, Edge Rusher, interior Rusher, or even a LB if he excels in pass coverage and makes an impact on the run game.

This is why I don't want Justin Fields. The Ohio State track record for producing quality QB's for the past 50 years is worse than Alabama's. I sincerely hoping Fields is picked by the Jets at #2 so we won't even be tempted to move up and grab him early.

"You weren't suppose to tell anyone about that!"

Great point. If you are set at all the other positions and a can't miss prospect is available in the first round then I think a team should grab them. But, if you have roster holes on the o-line, d-line, or secondary I think they should be addressed. Like you said, it's easier to find good receivers who can get the job done w/out being Pro-Bowler players.

I only posted a portion of the article. I don't have anything about QB's because we've discussed that to death on these boards. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/07/nfl-draft-primer-quarterbacks-fmia-peter-king/ 1) Not a great defensive draft, at all. Jeremiah has 24 players with first-round grades, only 10 on defense. (For the record, four quarterbacks, four wideouts, three offensive linemen, two running backs, one tight end, three edge players, three linebackers, three corners, and one safety. No defensive tackles.) Jeremiah has Rousseau, Jaelan Phillips of Miami and Kwity Paye of Michigan atop his Edge rankings, but it doesn’t seem like any of them are locks. What’s weird about this draft: It’s conceivable that the first eight players could be offensive players, and one of the unheralded corners—opt-out Virginia Tech athlete Caleb Farley or Alabama’s Patrick Surtain II—could be the first defender taken. “If you want a corner,” Jeremiah said, “you better get one in the first couple of rounds. It falls off after that.” Another son of an ex-NFLer, South Carolina cornerback Jaycee Horn (son of former wideout Joe Horn), should go by the end of round one. 2) Best position in the draft: Wide receiver (again). In the last two drafts, teams have picked a total of 30 wideouts in the first three rounds. This year, Jeremiah has 19 receivers with grades in the top three rounds. When you see the recent draft depth of the position—third-round wideouts from the last three years: Terry McLaurin, Michael Gallup, Tre’Quan Smith, Diontae Johnson—I begin to think NFL teams should start treating the receiver position like running backs. Don’t waste a high pick on one; you can get a good one in the seventies, eighties, nineties overall. “It’s almost the same every year now, Jeremiah said. “Last year, I had a record number of guys with top-three-round grades [27]. Not as much this year, but so many good options in the second, third, fourth rounds.” Most draft boards will have LSU’s Ja’Marr Chase and Alabama’s DeVonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle among the top 12 picks. Kadarius Toney of Florida is Jeremiah’s fourth first-round wideout, but his favorite wideout at a bargain price (mid-round two) is Mississippi’s Elijah Moore: “There were games that nobody could cover him.” 3) Surest position at the top? Might be offensive line. It’s not deep, but either Rashawn Slater of Northwestern or Penei Sewell of Oregon (both were 2020 opt-outs) could be opening-day left tackles in September. They should both go in the top six or eight. Slater played well against Ohio State and ace edge-rusher Chase Young in their 2019 meeting. Alijah Vera-Tucker (USC) could play guard or tackle comfortably, and Christian Darrisaw (Virginia Tech) and Jalen Mayfield (Michigan) could crack the end of the first round. ----- I found the comments on the defense prospects to be interesting. After reading this I'm glad we went all defense last year. Still, I wouldn't be crushed if we took a CB at #8 or with our 2nd round pick (#40) if one fall to us because we probably won't be able to get a solid starter after that...and CB is a desperate need on this team. Only one of our corners, (Donte), had an INT last season The deepest position, WR, is the one position we're set for in 2019. DJ and Robbie both went over a 1,000 yards last year so we don't need a #1 or #2 in 2021. According to this analysis, we can probably find a replacement for Curtis Samuel if he we can't afford him in the offseason. For years I've felt WR is becoming one of the easiest positions to replace...especially if you have a good system and QB already in place. The O-line at the top of the draft are almost considered locks to start day one at LT. If Slater or Sewell fell to us at 8, it would be hard to pass on them. With the right LT in place, Moton's return, and a couple of other tweaks our O-line could should become a position of strength and if we failed to get a QB this year, whoever we brought in in 2022 (FA, trade, or draft pick) would be in a much better position to succeed. I was under the impression that this year's class of lineman was deep for interior lineman. I want to see what the other draft gurus are saying about them. Thoughts?

You and CRA both bring up valid points about Fields and Wilson...and that's why I'm not sold on either one of these quarterbacks. I'm shocked so many people are in favor of giving up multiple #1 picks and a couple of other high choices to move up 6 spots in the draft and take either of them. If one of them fell to number 8, I can see considering it because you still have all of your draft choices to fill in the rest of the roster holes and build a stronger team around him. If we kept Teddy for another year you wouldn't even have to start him right away and give him time to get acclimated to the NFL. When you start giving away multiple picks inside the first 3 rounds in multiple years for these guys with all of our roster holes, that's a sign of desperation. We need to stay put and get the BPA or even trade down a couple of slots to gain extra picks if we can.

Dline is massive hole on this roster. We need a 3 technique who can bring pressure up the middle. D.Brown should improve with age, but he's more of a NT type. He is double teamed most of the time. We need someone beside him who can bring some heat, which make things easier for Brown. You need to take a look at years stats. We had 29 sacks as a team. Brian Burns had 9 of them. Efe Obada had 5.5. No one else had more than 5. None of our DT's had more than 2. A lot of people want to blame Teddy for all of our problems last year, but Carolina's defense gave up on average over 25 points per game. Part of that is due to a lack of a consistent pass rush. We also gave up 4.7 yds per rush on average on the ground. The team only had 7 interceptions and 3 of those were by a Donte Jackson, the only CB on the team to get an INT. I think that more than qualifies as a roster hole. Three of our Safeties has 1 interception each, the last INT was by a LB (Tahir Whitehead). We can't assume a lot of free agents are going to be excited about playing for a 5-11 team this offseason. We need to fill these holes through the draft if possible. You can't do that if you give away everything to move up 5 or 6 spots in the draft and nab a QB. Our guys played hard last year. I expect our 2nd year players to improve in 2021. But, when you look at our defensive stats, it amazing we were as competitve as we were in 2020.

We see this situation exactly the same. I don't see Wilson, Fields, or Lance as "can't miss prospects". There seems to be a sense of desperation to get a franchise QB in the 2021 draft even though we are more than a QB away from competing for a division/conference title and all the QB's above have red flags despite their talent. I actually think if we spent this draft beefing up the roster on the o-line and defensive side of the ball we'd be laying a strong foundation for the next 4-5 seasons. With an improved o-line and a healthy McCaffrey I believe even Teddy would be more effective in 2021. He isn't the future in Carolina, but he isn't the worst choice to hold things down for 2021. When 2022 comes you would have room leeway to package some picks because a lot of our roster holes would be filled.. The team could move up to grab a promising QB prospect in the draft or acquire an established QB via trade or free agency. The 2022 starter (whoever it may be) should have a more talented and experienced team around him than the 2021 starter will.

Thank you for the insight. Did you happen to see him play at Northwestern this past season? If so, was there any improvement from the time at Indiana?

And, if you draft Lance you don't necessarily have to start him in year one if he isn't ready. You could ride with Teddy in 2021 knowing that Lance should be in position to take over in 2022 or 2023. I don't even think Lance is 21 yet so there's no need to rush things.

I had ESPN on at work this morning. I saw a report saying that New England is looking to move up to #9 to take Lance. I did a double take when I saw it because I had already seen this thread. Does Kiper think we'd pick Mac Jones over Trey Lance if Lance is available at #8? I'm not sure I'd take a QB in round one this year with all of our other needs, but if I did there's no way I'm taking Jones or Lance if the latter is available.

Have you actually seen this guy play? If so, feel free to share your thoughts on him. I apologize again for the name mishap.

OOPS. I meant Peyton Ramsey...not the Patrick Ramsey from the Redskins back in the day.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-prospects-2021-updated-big-board-player-rankings/ I came across this site yesterday. It has a nice breakdown on pretty much every QB eligible for the 2021 draft. We are all familiar with the ones at the top of the list so I decided to focus on the less heralded prospects. I was slightly intrigued with #10. Peyton Ramsey, QB, Northwestern Height: 6-2. Weight: 220. Projected 40 Time: 4.77. Projected Round (2021): 5-7. 2/23/21: Ramsey was a gutsy signal-caller who pushed his team to the Big Ten Championship in 2020. He flashed a quality arm with passing ability as a senior, but also threw the ball well as a sophomore and junior. Over the past three seasons, Ramsey was held back by a lack of talent at receiver, but he was a steadily productive player for the Wildcats. Ramsey could be a solid backup quarterback in the NFL. Ramsey scored a 30 on his Wonderlic test, and that would have put him among the top-three scoring quarterbacks in the 2020 NFL Draft class. Teams like Ramsey's intangibles and intelligence. --- I've never seen this guy play. I'm sure some of you have. Apparently he is an intelligent guy (based on his school pedigree and Wonderlic score) who isn't working with NFL caliber talent at the skill positions. Yet, he was productive in college. If we have to roll with Teddy in 2021, is this the type of guy you take a chance on in the mid to late rounds (4-7) if he's available? Rhule didn't have the most talented roster last year, but I think his coaching had a lot to do with us being competitive in nearly every game we played in 2020. It doesn;t appear so far that Will Grier is going to ever impact our team...and his was picked by the former GM. Could Rhule and the rest of our staff Possibly groom Ramsey and make him a capable QB in the NFL? Even if he never starts, he could be trade bait later. Thoughts?

He must really like Wofford College a lot!! I don't think any of their former alumni have come close to doing what Mr. Richardson has done, and continues to do, for that school.

If Christian is healthy in 2021, he'd be a beast in SF with a run oriented coach like Kyle Shanahan...especially if he had a solid back to share the workload.