KSpan

Who could've predicted there would be a learning curve this season? Almost like it's a rookie QB, entirely new staff with an HC that is being viewed with rose-colored nostalgia, lots of new personnel, and just general overhaul to rid the Rhule stench... Lots of potential here but yeah, gonna take a bit of time.

This good and hasn't even played an NFL down yet... Truly amazing.

Entirely irrleevant, though it is important that the starters and backups look competent, coached, composed, and that they show improvement week by week. That said, I don't mind 'winning' the first quarter/first half and maybe through the third quarter if it's mostly guys who will make the 53 on the field.

Taye Biddle.

WE NEED ANSWERS!!! Sarcasm referencing the clowns that were screaming about Luke's 2015 concussion, in case it wasn't clear.

Duh. Poor coaching, questionable officiating, and ill-timed mistakes/failures (Tolbert fumble, Ginn letting the pick bounce off of his hands, the punt return nonsense, Cotchery not catching that bill cleanly in the first place) doomed the team.

And now you're saying that Denver's defense was schemed by Evero AND Fangio rather than the players... nice movement of the goalposts there. That would be a solid coincidence across 5 seasons and, if true, would put Evero a tier or two below Fangio and whomever he had at DC. Regarding personnel, your exact words were "There is no way you’re taking Denver’s personnel over ours. It’s not inaccurate", which is why I focused on the Denver players that were upgrades and why I would indeed take Denver's personnel over Carolina's. I specifically said that I'd take their guys potentially even over Brown and of course Burns is a better edge than anyone they had not named Von Miller. Also, while McCall is promising, in a vacuum of course I'd take Denver's proven DL performance over holdovers and castoffs like McCall and Tuttle. Also, looks like Surtain was voted the best corner in the NFL by NFL personnel, just like Simmons was voted the best safety by NFL personnel before. You're welcome to your opinion but it's not echoed by actual NFL minds, making the Horn/Surtian discussion a push at best. https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/patrick-surtain-broncos-voted-top-corner-espn-poll#:~:text=Over 80 NFL executives%2C coaches,1 cornerback. My brother also lives in Denver, we watch the Broncos/Panthers games and compare... You're not unique in that regard and are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it doesn't appear to mesh with the NFL reality.

I completely agree with your last paragraph, but have a tendency of counterpointing crazy takes such as Jeremy Chinn being better than Justin Simmons and Denver being talent-starved relative to Carolina. I'll add that it may take a year or two to really see the effects, as much of Carolina's defensive roster wasn't built with a 3-4 in mind. That's where I think Evero will earn his money this year, being able (or not) to coax it out of guys like McCall that are holdovers.

If coaching matters is your angle, Denver's defense dropped from 3rd in 2021, with an offense that scored fewer points than Carolina's did in 2022, to 14th in 2022 under Evero with many the same players. I'm not at all arguing that Evero is bad but it doesn't jive at all with that angle. Also, his argument wasn't that Carolina's defense would improve, which I do believe will happen, but rather that Denver's 2022 talent was markedly less than Carolina's 2023 talent and that Evero somehow got more from the same 'replaceable players' than the staff before him. That's just incorrect based on just a cursory review of the team beyond taking some talking head at their word.

What do their rookie years have to do with anything? Besides being irrelevant since Simmons came in behind 2 good safeties (but still started his 2nd year) and Chinn had immediate opportunity, Simmons was/is still an entirely different type of player than Chinn and is just objectively better than Chinn right now. This along with the fact that Denver's defense was 3rd in the league in pts against in 2021 with nearly all of the same 'replaceable players', the year before Evero arrived there, disproves your attempted points. Does it mean Carolina's players and/or Evero are bad? Not at all - Carolina has some talent and Evero did good work. But the angle that Denver's defense was nothing without Evero and that Carolina's current roster is much better is just inaccurate.

Your point was just wrong though. Even if Denver did have mostly replaceable talent they did it for years before Evero, and last year ooked an awful lot like Carolina's roster but better. Better across the DL with consistent multi-year performance, no Burns at edge but better run defenders at LB, and better in the secondary both talent wise and because they can all stay healthy. This notion of 'nothing to work with is just wrong and yeah, I would take a number of those guys from last year over Carolina guys based on talent - Williams/Jones and their consistent 8-10 sacks a year between them even before Evero over 2 of 3 projected Carolina DL starters (and maybe even Brown), Browning or even Gregory over YGM, Surtain/Simmons over anyone in the secondary, Jackson over either Woods or Bell, and Donte wasn't that good and definitely inconsistent before the Achilles let alone after so maybe even another corner too. Many of those guys did produce before Evero, evidenced by the top 10 finishes in 2 of the 3 years before him. They're just better players in a number of spots, even if only a little at times, and it is what it is.

Penisini retired before 2022 and was on PUP/ released because of a failed physical, and Roy was always a Rhule JAG. Good that McCall is performing but the bar is low here. Regarding Chinn, he's very talented but also a very different player than Simmons, who is a free safety voted the best safety in football by NFL execs & players just a year ago. Y'all are just nuts with some of these takes "Just how good is Simmons? ESPN polled more than 50 NFL executives, coaches, and players to compile a list of the top 10 players at each position. Simmons checked in as the No. 1 safety in the league according to his peers. " https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/justin-simmons-nfl-top-safety-espn-poll

Dude, Denver had been running the 3-4 since like 2014 and their defense finished top 10 in pts allowed twice in the past 4 years, including 3rd in 2021, and top half 4 of the last 5. Evero appears to have a strong brand but this 'Denver magic' was rolling with Fangio before he got there. He had a good base to work with and did well with it - that 'what did Denver have?!?' narrative is just inaccurate.

A quarter or 2 drives of 6 plays or more, whichever happens deeper into the game.

As a general comment, paying big money for players who may not be worth it/at that level isn't a good strategy either.

Gotcha. Agreed that Thomas is a passable blocker, even pretty effective at times.

Go back and watch the tape again. He got in the way on occasion, but dude was subpar at best. Remember how (in)effective he was lowering the shoulder for yards? Same concept, and it was the reason guys like Hartsock and Manhertz had roster spots. Effort was never the issue, just effectiveness, and that's fine. He was a modern TE that was more of a receiver and he was damn good at that.

Yup. Love Greg but that is a low, low bar.

For sure - you don't make it this far at that size without it. Just saying that Sproles was a little moreso.

I grew up with Sproles and played against him for years - Sproles was notably more solid in the lower body than this guy. Combine weight was also 187 vs Vaughn's 179, which is not insignificant at their height.

God, it's like paying for cable all over again... taking me back to 2014 when we cut that off in the first place.

For reference, Denver's defense was 3rd, 25th, 10th, and 14th in pts against the 4 years prior to his arrival (3 Vic Fangio years) and running a base 3-4 since 2015E. Evero had plenty to work with, and did good work with it. Carolina was 21st, 18th, 31st, and 29th during that same period, and team personnel is not built for 3-4 base (though specialty packages may be more similar). It may take a year or two to really see big gains.

I don't disagree at all with the point that Rhule is a clown but Howell played in 1 game last year and only because Wentz and Heinicke got hurt/sucked. It's not like he started a season and got a ton of reps/time.

Holy good god it is - Prescott Oaks. Street names like Emmitt Pass, Witten Dr, Dak Ave... horrifying. https://www.kwsanantonio.com/neighborhoods/homes-for-sale-in-prescott-oaks