Seltzer

See, this is the kind of debate/criticism I can get behind 100%. These are legitimate questions, and they haven't yet been answered. And trading up was a mistake- there is no question in retrospect. But the absolute nonsense emanating from so many people on this board has been embarrassing. Bryce is going to be here starting next year. I support this team, so I want to see him improve and to succeed. And maybe I'm just older than some of these people or coached too long, but damn some of these takes are so divorced from reality (and still celebrated as the only acceptable groupthink in here) it's just hard to take. Good game (in terms of we got the win) and elite final drive. Hoping to see a better offensive performance next week.

Take your copium clown boy... not your day

This has been an awful season, but both game winning drives by Bryce have been something to build on. People can hate on him all they want, but if you want to believe he's not tough as hell mentally & physically you're just a miserable person. I don't know that he will ever become the guy we want him to be, but anyone not giving him his flowers today for persevering all day in those conditions & with the normal drops and penalty nonsense & still being able to be at his best at the end was remarkable. I was honestly thinking more Delhomme-esque than Cam. Delhomme could be mediocre all game and come through clutch as hell at the end.

That's really the takeaway for the team. It certainly was as ugly a game as you can have offensively before the final drive, but this was the epitome of extreme weather conditions today. The previous monsoon game in 2011 was an UGLY win also. That's all you can hope for in this environment.

It was pouring with 30 miles wind gusts. The Falcons didn't even want Ridder to throw at all after his braindead pick... It wasn't a situation where you want your QB to have to throw in, especially backed up. It was as bad of conditions as I've seen at BOA stadium. There's only been a few games that were even close to this one... basically a tropical depression sitting over the stadium the whole game.

He was throwing against massive wind gusts in the rain. I know some of them didn't look rifled in there but you are throwing against the wind and also trying to make the ball as catchable as possible in the pouring rain. Cam Newton throwing lasers in that weather wouldn't work either. Ridder had several throws that were dropped that he put too much mustard on given the conditions... I think you are massively underestimating how hard it would be to balance throwing the ball with touch in these conditions and fighting the elements. Every single player and coach knows how impressive that final drive was... it's amazing the amount of hate people can have against something so beautiful... LOL literally eveyone talked about how Cam could never throw with touch a decade ago... I'm convinced so many people here just don't want to be happy.

That was the work of a franchise QB and a guy worthy of a #1 pick. Incredible drive for any QB, let alone a maligned, rookie QB backed up against the wind and in the worst weather conditions imaginable against a talented Falcons secondary. Unlike the litany of people on this board who want so badly to crucify this kid & ignore the almost comical level of dysfunction he has had to deal with this year, I'm not crowning him by any means. It is still 100% valid & fair to say it was a mistake to trade up for Bryce. I will never argue against that; I just vehemently disagree with the assertion that any other QB would have been justified for us trading up for given how unbelievably inept everything else has been this year. We are stuck with Bryce for at least next year, and I'm neither a masochist nor a Bryce hater, so I am incredibly excited by this drive. 5/5 for 68 yards is objectively good for any drive, and almost impossible in the weather conditions out there. Hope he can continue to build on this in hopefully better weather next week.

Top 5 in terms of fun experiences for me. I've never seen so much rain in a 30 minute window. Literally, the only place anywhere around where it was raining was directly over the stadium, and it was a monsoon for real.

I feel like the magic of 2003 is one of the last remaining Panthers memories I can hold on to during this time in the abyss. My biggest anger at Tepper and the Panthers is the fact my boys have yet to see a competent Panthers team that can even compete for the playoffs, let alone a magical season like 2003. It truly was the epitome of catching lightning in a bottle...

It's a problem that has become epidemic around here... The only thing I can imagine is that with the lack of moderators and overall interest in the site (compared to previous years when the Panthers weren't a dumpster fire), no one stops these threads because they do generate clicks (even if they are nothing more than inflammatory nonsense). Got to drive ad revenue somehow?? I'm not saying that as anything other than to be matter of fact. Maybe it's just a necessary trade-off during an awful period to be running a Panthers message board. Regardless, this place is flat-out embarrassing compared to what it once was, and it still sucks for those of us who remember (and want) this place to be better. All the old-timers that actually kept this place moderated and a place for actual discourse (and some laughs that aren't predicated on stupid attempts at trolling) have left. It's ran by trolls who poo on anyone or anything positive whatsoever. I'm not saying this as hyperbole. If you don't come in here to wallow in grievance and bash everything, you're not welcome... And the thing is, we're 1-12... there is a lot to complain about. But this place has just become toxic for toxic's sake... it's not funny, it's not snarky, it's not insightful... it's just effing trolling... and it has hurt this board dearly, whether the current trolls in charge in Jeremy's absence will admit it... Panthers Reddit is so much better for now. For starters, there is actual moderation, which let's be honest, is a massive step up from Carolina Huddle (at least for the time being) I love this place... I feel like it has been hijacked just like this franchise has been and turned into something SCP would wipe his ass with on a road trip after some bad Chipotle... just like Luke Kuechly, SCP had the foresight to abandon this place when he saw where it was going over the past few years... This place grew organically into the best Panthers message board out there... long before Black & Blue Review (now defunct), before Cat Crave, Cat Scratch Reader, and all the other Panthers-related media and podcasts... Carolina Huddle is unfortunately now a depressing hellscape and a shell of what it once was... I don't see this place getting any better until we start winning and some of the old-timers (with something actually to say beyond trolling) return...

So a rando on this message board's opinion should be more valid than Cam Newton, Nick Saban, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Got it... and do you really wonder why so many old-timers have fled this place? The level of intellectual discourse here is below sea-level...

No one thinks Bryce has the strongest arm in the world, but it is plenty fine to make NFL throws. Of all the issues this team has had, to glom onto to "arm strength" seems strange. Again, my faith in Bryce lays in the fact he's accurate. Over time, that matters more than anything else. What were 99% of Cam's issues? Accuracy. Of course Bryce can't do everything Cam can (although I think he is proving effective as a runner). But in the long-term, accuracy matters more than anything else. It's like shooting in basketball. You want to crucify the kid. Fair enough. Former players, (including Cam) absolutely don't. You're entitled to your opinion, but I give more credence to Cam (and other NFL players & coaches) than I do to your opinion. That's it. I don't know why so many on this board feel the overwhelming need to troll over that opinion. It is firmly grounded in reality. If Bryce sucks that bad, why not find another team in the interim? Why is so important to so many people on this board to have thread after thread crucifying the kid? It's a poverty mentality from a poverty franchise. We need to be better than this, IMO. Or continue to troll and run everyone from the message board just like we want to run off players (and then bitch when they succeed with legit organizations). Then what??

From Cam's own lips. And he even insinuates there's no way he could be successful in this environment. But again, I'm sure all the experts on here know more than Cam (and you know, the other people who have played and coached this sport). We have become a poverty franchise, and this board has followed suit...

Are you mentally challenged? WTF are you talking about here? Jesus Christ... Goes back to the point you can't even come in here and comment w/o relentless trolling... This really has become a clown show for the double-digit IQ members of this fanbase... Y'all have at it... Miserable effing people... and it's not enough to be miserable, you're not content unless you try to drag everyone else into the abyss with you.

LOL. Clown man with a 76 IQ thinks other people are talking nonsense. Do better... for your own sake... or at least let the adults discuss in peace

In what world did Bryce not show indisputable arm talent before the draft? Did you watch college football last year? He was the consensus #1 QB prospect. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative, but it does comport with objective reality... So, it is revisionist history. I'm sorry if you don't understand the definition. Again, get rid of him! Get rid of everyone!! Will that be cathartic to you? It seems like it would, but what comes next? It's like from the Sopranos... everybody, including Tepper it seems, wants somebody whacked... But what is that going to accomplish? People knock Tepper, but the hot-take nonsense from this fanbase is the same kind of vapid impulsiveness that has led to this dysfunction... I feel confident you have never coached or held a leadership position with that type of mindset, and I'm not being anything other than matter-of-fact. B/c I honestly think if you had, this hot-take wouldn't be your undeniable conclusion that you are proclaiming. The people who magically believe Stroud (or any other effing QB on the planet) would thrive in this environment are not grounded in reality. Pure & simple. So now I will bow out of this toxic place again for a while. Crucify the kid... it changes nothing. And the idea that this mess is his fault is reprehensible in my opinion.

Of course, F Bryce, cut him now!! We have to move on from that midget. Moreover, let's kill him for all the misery he's responsible for... B/c this mentality sure has paid dividends over the past 6 years, hasn't it? Cam is washed- cut him Teddy- game manager- need better Darnold- oh well, those draft picks would have been nice CMC can't stay healthy- ship him out DJ Moore- not a top 10 WR- we can live without him Baker Mayfield- not starter worthy And now we want to get rid of Brian Burns, too. I mean who needs stars to actually win... So yep, based on our track record, I'm sure getting rid of Bryce will solve all our problems. Or, and I'm just spit-balling, we could look at this non-emotionally and from a strategic viewpoint and realize the 22-year rookie QB is about as far down the list as you can be in terms of organizational issues. It's just too easy & too convenient for many fans not to.

That's revisionist history, at best. But that has absolutely nothing at all to do with my overall argument...

What? He has been very accurate on the move.... Most of our explosive plays are where Bryce makes something out of nothing on the move b/c our guys can't get open when they're supposed to be relative to the play. What has happened to the fanbase? Are we still living in the same reality? I don't even understand some of this stuff. There are legitimate criticisms of Bryce, but again, so much of this is just factually incorrect or lacks any context whatsoever.

He does need more than the 32 rated receiving corp and the 31 rated Oline. Any QB does. Hell, how much discourse is there about Mahomes now and his receivers? Or CJ Stroud last week when he lost his? I know how awful the past 6 years have been, but I also feel like b/c of that people have simply lost perspective. Bryce does need to know multiple Olineman aren't going to get beat immediately after the snap. He cannot trust that for even one snap. That should not be too much to ask as a NFL QB. Seriously, and I know if you're like me, you haven't watched near as much NFL as I normally would,but watch any other team. No other team is allowing immediate & multiple breakdowns pass set after pass set... and so much of it is coming right up the interior... Even with the bad Olines with Cam, this wasn't happening. We've never, ever in franchise history had an interior OLine this bad. We just haven't, and I will die on that hill b/c I've watched every single snap. Again, blame Bryce, but I simply disagree with anyone who thinks someone else (or anyone for that matter) is making chicken salad out of this chicken sh*t. Or let's blame Bryce, F him, cut him tomorrow, tell his 180 lb ass he sucks and can never cut it as our franchise savior... Then what?? Seriously, who is going to do better, and equally important, how TF would want to come here?? We get rid of coaches, we hate our good players for not doing enough to elevate an impossible situation, and then we get rid of them and watch them thrive when they aren't stuck in a dysfunctional franchise. Rinse, lather, repeat...

I could definitely see this being a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers situation. But given our franchise, Bryce will turn into Drew Brees elsewhere, and we will give up on him to draft the next Ryan Leaf instead of Philip Rivers. I genuinely expect something similar to this to happen over the next few years, and I'm not lying. If he ends up in NO, I may have to permanently stop watching. There is literally evidence all over the league of small QB's (Tua, Purdy) absolutely thriving with legit playmakers, but people want to act like Bryce couldn't produce with the weapons they have. The whole reason for being for the GM is to build around the QB. We gave our rookie QB the PFF rated #32 Receiving group and #31 rated Offensive Line and are surprised he's not putting up Pro Bowl numbers... it's beyond even insanity. It's lazy and factually wrong. But rather than blame the people who should be blamed who traded away our good players like CMC & DJ Moore and drafting busts, it's just too tempting to blame the 22 rookie for not making Chark or Mingo catch the ball. Imagine Bryce playing for Kyle Shanahan... or anyone or anywhere else besides this dysfunction. I do empathize with everyone though in the sense that we were absolutely gaslighted by Fitterer into believing this roster (even after trading CMC & Moore) was capable of competing in the NFC South.

I honestly don't think Bryce will ever develop here. This franchise really does have a stench that I think is going to be hard to wash off. We have reached abyss level Browns-status as a franchise. I think the most likely thing is that Bryce is here next year, does significantly better (provided he has help), but the damage is done. A significant amount of the fanbase wants him to fail. If I'm his parents & agents, I'm wondering how in the hell I let Bryce get into this situation, and think about (much like CMC & Baker), how to get out so I can go somewhere where I'm both appreciated and can succeed? I think in the future, just like Caleb Williams has intimated, you are going to see top QB prospects really consider where they are going and potentially simply refuse. I mean, Andrew Luck took one look here and decided to return to college. We got lucky with Cam. Everyone can trash Bryce, but he is a stand-up kid and was the best QB prospect in college last year. If you're a top QB prospect going forward, do you want to come here given how thoroughly we have destroyed QB's the past few years? Fans can get mad at Bryce, but the players & coaches around the league know the truth. This is a poverty franchise, and until we change that, directing anger at players may be cathartic, but it is laughable looking at it from an outside perspective. Blaming a 22 year old kid for 6+ years of the worst of mismanagement... we need to be better than this.

Every single player that has ever played with Bryce would give you their opinion, and they're all positive. Again, what is more likely.... that all these coaches and players that have played the game all say Bryce has what it takes, or the hot-take artist on this board or elsewhere are right? The hate for this kid is effing unreal... I'm as big of a Panthers fan as there is, but there's part of me now (just like with Cam) that I just want to see Bryce go elsewhere (hopefully the AFC) and ball out just like everyone else that leaves this dysfunction. Eventually, even the biggest trolls and haters here will hopefully open their eyes to the fact this franchise is the problem, not the players you so desperately want to blame. And I don't say this lightly. There is an infinitely better chance Bryce would be successful in Houston (or anywhere else) than for another QB being more successful here under the current conditions. Self-delusion is a helluva drug... but I guess in fairness what else does a lot of this fanbase have left... Winning is the only solution

Everyone from Bill Belichick to Bill O'Brien to Nick Saban and a whole litany of NFL guys like Rodgers & multiple NFL coaches have all said this kid can play and was worthy to be #1, but sure, let's give a platform to all these armchair "experts." Cam getting blasted for having an opinion as a former MVP by people who have never played the sport is a good microcosm of what has happened to this board. It's so on the nose it's almost hard to believe. Perfect timing, and those of us who were here for the Cam Era remember this nonstop nonsense for the most part. For a lot of people, Cam was never good enough. 2015 was the only year that Cam bashing wasn't a prominent feature here, regardless of the revisionist history. As good as Cam is and was, I think we would have broken him mentally had he been the rookie QB on this team. The fact that Bryce has not been broken physically (and hopefully mentally) by this season is remarkable. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never played or coached competitve sports IMHO. And anyone who wants to equate the 2011 cast of Cam Newton, Steve Smith, Greg Olsen, Jordan Gross, Ryan Kalil, Deangelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, etc. to this 2023 cast of misfits is either stupid or ignorant. This whole season has been a disaster. Blaming Bryce is so effing lazy and just factually wrong for the most part. He's missed some throws, made some incredible ones that weren't caught, and generally been the victim of incredible mismanagement. He's going to be here next year, hopefully with a competent staff and players. Trading up was 10000% a mistake, but not b/c of Bryce. We would be in this same situation with any rookie QB playing in this dysfunction, regardless of what you need to tell yourself. 2015 Cam wouldn't be able to elevate this squad. There's too much dysfunction across the board, and almost every drop back has multiple offensive lineman losing almost immediately. I rarely even come here anymore because the trolling and hyperbole are just too much to take. If y'all hate Bryce that bad, now really is the time to jump ship. I've watched the NFL my entire life, and the thing that makes a QB good over time is accuracy. Of all the inane complaints about Bryce, no one ever mentions that b/c it's not grounded in reality. The truth is that Bryce has made good throws when he's had a clean pocket, which is next to never. Again, for people who don't understand football or watch film, a good QB can navigate the pocket, maybe even if one guy gets beat. But when multiple guys are getting beat, there's little to no separation, and guys are dropping perfect passes... any of you guys standing in that pocket and making "NFL quality throws?" Which is more likely, that Bryce forgot how to play football after playing it at the highest level in college, or that the multi-year dysfunction of this organization is to blame? I would like to believe in the collective IQ of this board, but every single time I come here anymore I'm bombarded with these nonsensical threads... please just find another team!!

Not one thing I said was untrue or without merit. Anyway, like I said, y'all have defined the groupthink you want in here. It's all yours... I would tell anyone interested that I did take the suggestion of the other old-school Huddler and checked out the Panthers Reddit Discord. Night & day...