tukafan21

So you're openly admitting that after 3 years in the league, Wilson still isn't "great" but at the same time think he's going to be a Top 8 WR in the league when he's averaged 65 yards per game in his career? There is more proof that Wilson will turn out to be very good than great, than the opposite. The truly great WRs into today's game have all had better seasons in their first few years than Wilson has had, some of them have had multiple better seasons. Chase had 1 less TD in his rookie season than Wilson has in his career. Jefferson's worst season was 30 yards less than Wilson's best, despite playing 7 fewer games. Nabers and Thomas just had more yards in their rookie seasons than Wilson has ever had (and Nabers only played 15 games). Amon-Ra's last 3 seasons are all more yards than Wilson has ever had, as well as having only 2 less TDs this year than Wilson has in his career, while basically the same thing can be said about CeeDee (except using his TDs from last year). In his first 2 years in Philly AJ Brown put up 2,951 yards and 18 TDs, almost as many yards as Wilson has in 3 years and with more TDs. Drake London, with busted Cousins and a rookie throwing him the ball, just had a better statistical season than Wilson has ever had. In a run oriented offense, even McConkey just put up more yards than Wilson has ever had in a season (while missing a game), and had 7 TDs, the most Wilson has ever had in a year and took him until year 3 to do so. Puka had 1,500 yards and 6 TDs as a rookie and then followed it up with 990 and 3 TDs in just 11 games. Nico Collins has back to back years with as many or more TDs as Wilson has had in any one season (and more in those 2 years than Wilson has in 3), while putting up 1,300 and 1,000 yards despite missing 2 and 5 games in each of those two seasons. All of this isn't meant to attack Wilson, he's a very good WR, he's a #1. But that's 11 WRs all 27 years old or younger who have had better production than Wilson so far, some by a wide margin. It's also not even including other guys who have had more similar production to Wilson that very well could be better than him moving forward, like McLaurin, Aiyuk, JSN, Flowers, Jameson Williams, Moore, Olave, DeVonta. Let alone all the great older WRs who had much more production early in their career than Wilson did, like the Tyreek, Adams, Diggs, etc, of the game. People thinking he's this can't miss Top 10 WR are just talking nonsense. His size limits his red zone potential and he's just not the same type of smaller WR who can dominate like a Chase, Jefferson, Nabers, etc. I know people can say my view of T-Mac being a surefire Top 10 guy with Top 5 potential is nonsense as well. But I'm still betting on the 6'5" guy with the best hands and catch radius of any WR to come into the league since Calvin Johnson to have a much higher ceiling than Wilson has, and that's before considering he'd be 3 years younger and on a rookie contract.

Or, you take a player with a much higher ceiling than Wilson, while having them on a rookie contract control for 5 years. Again, I'm not against trading the 8th pick for Wilson, but under no circumstances can that trade be made before knowing if T-Mac is there when on the clock. If he gets drafted before 7 when the Jets are on the clock, then sure, go ahead and make the trade. But if he's there at 7 and they haven't traded Wilson, they're not taking T-Mac, so just sit pat and take the player with the higher upside and longer rookie contract control.

No it's not, Wilson is a great WR, but he's not a true Top 5 potential type of elite WR like some on here seem to think. Yes, he has over 1k in each of his 3 seasons, but he also hasn't missed any games and has only just barely cracked the number in each season, the most yards he's had is 1,104, which is only a 65 yard per game average. He has a total of 9 games of 100 yards or more, out of 51 games, with only 1 of those games being over 115 yards. He's also not really that much of a redzone threat because of his size, and he only has 14 TDs over his 3 seasons. In his 3 seasons he's been 13th, 14th, and 22nd in the league in receiving yards, and again, that's without missing any games, he falls further down the list if you go by yards per game. Great WR, a #1 WR, no doubt about it, but he's more of a 12-15ish best WR in the league than a true Top 10 guy. Just T-Mac's red zone ability alone will make him a better WR weapon to have in this league than Wilson, as he's going to be a 10 or more TD type of guy per season. If the team who has had him in their building for 3 years would trade him and then take T-Mac (assuming he's still there), wouldn't that alone tell you that the Jets think higher of T-Mac than Wilson?

Wrong He might be better than T-Mac as of Week 1 of this year as it's a 4th year #1 WR vs a rookie, but within a year or so, T-Mac >> Wilson, no doubt in my mind about that. There is only 1 instance I'd be okay trading #8 for Wilson, and that's if T-Mac is drafted before we're on the clock. As if we make that trade and T-Mac falls to 8 (or 7 since the Jets would have both those picks), the Jets would take him and in a couple years we'll just look back on that in anger as they'll have the better WR than we will, and they'll have had him on his rookie deal while we'll have given Wilson a huge extension.

lol, didn't remember that Biakabutuka was the 8th pick for us (for some reason if you asked me before, I always thought he wast eh 6th pick in the draft). Would be perfect symmetry for me for us to have drafted my favorite player from my favorite school growing up in Biakabutuka, to now draft the best player from the school I graduated from with T-Mac all these years later.

I like Sanders potential too much to use an 8th pick on a TE with all our other holes. Nothing against the player, just that we have a TE with possibly a really good upside, would be a poor allocation of resources.

I don't see any similarities between T-Mac and Funchess, outside of like you said, they are smooth movers for their size, but T-Mac is a million times the WR that Funchess ever wished he could be. The irony on my end of bringing up Funchess when talking about T-Mac, is how excited I was to draft Funchess due to a personal connection to him as well, LOL. Funchess is the best player to ever come out of my hometown, he went to one of the 3 HS's in our school district, not mine, but of course one of our main rivals. I got to meet him the summer after his rookie year and got a picture with him, that I was able to later get signed with an inscription about going from our hometown to Carolina. He may not have panned out for us, but I always thought that was a cool thing for my team to draft the best player to come out of my hometown.

Because this all stemmed from projecting the type of player a draft prospect could become. It's impossible to project a career/legacy, too many unknown factors You said Mike Evans was one of the best WRs of the last decade. I was saying he only is because of the entirety of his career, not because he was ever actually one of the best WRs in the league at any given time. Mike Evans is not going to be a HOFer because he was an elite WR, it's going to be because he was a very good one for a long time, the same way Gore will be in the HOF. All those players from the last decade were guys who had peak seasons of being a better player than Evans, but whether health, the QB/team, something else, or still just too young in their career, they couldn't sustain it long enough to have the same career as him, but at one time or another, they were better than Evans. I'm saying T-Mac is going to be an elite WR, his peak will be better than Evans best season(s), just like those guys I listed. But I'm not predicting he'll be a HOFer because that's just nonsense to predict of almost any prospect in the NFL. You need to be a Wemby type of prospect to really be worthy of actually being expected to be a HOF player before you even get drafted. And it's no knock on Evans or his career. There is nothing wrong with not ever being one of the best WRs at any time, but being so good for so long that you still get into the HOF. Combine that with a ring and it's a career that anyone would take coming out from college, even if they aspire to have a better peak.

Nobody is giving up more than like a 6th or 7th round pick for an almost 40 year old backup QB, so this so pointless unless we already were planning on moving on from Dalton for whatever reason.

I'd be very curious who you'd be taking prime Evans over in that first list, especially if you're going their best 1 season, as Evans has never had a multi year dominant streak. All those guys in that first list have seasons that have easily been better than Evans' best season. For the 2nd list, I'm not saying I'd take them all over Evans, but none of them I'd take Evans without thinking about it, I think if you're talking peak one season type of thing, they all are comparable to Evans from the last decade. I know it's not the end all be all, but prime Evans has never even been a 1st team all pro. The 3rd most yards he's had in a season was 1,255 in a 17 game season. He only has 2 seasons where he had over 79 catches and never broke 100. And he's only had 11 missed games in his 11 year career too, not like his stats were held back due to missing a lot of games. Evans is a great WR, a sure fire HOFer, but even at his peak, he only had a couple seasons of being a Top 10 guy in a given year. His TD numbers are truly elite, I'll give you that, he's 9th all time, but being an elite red zone target doesn't on it's own make you better than other WRs. But if that's why you view Evans so highly, then T-Mac with his better catch radius than Evans should be even more attractive as he really is going to be one of the best red zone targets in the league from day 1. His catch radius and hands are going to be deadly in the end zone for whoever drafts him.

Oh he most definitely isn't, especially when you add in his injury history, which is why I want nothing to do with him in FA, the cap room is more needed to be spent on the defense

I have been very vocal about being anti Higgins because I don't think he's worth what it will cost us to get him, but I 100% agree on rather overpaying for Higgins than getting Kupp, and I love Kupp. The problem is he'll be 32 and realistically, the best he can be for us next year is a better Thielen if he's full healthy. That doesn't add any new dynamic to our team or give Bryce a different type of weapon to have at his disposal to see if he can be a franchise QB.

Figured I'd take a shot at what I said here too, in no particular order other than when the pop into my head, all these guys I'd say were better than Evans, even if they don't get into the HOF like him.... Jefferson, Chase, Kupp, Tyreek, Hopkins, Diggs, Lamb, Adams, Julio, Antonio Brown, AJ Brown, Amon Ra, are all guys that I'd 100% take over Evans. Then there are a bunch of guys that if we're talking about 1 season or game, I'd be torn on Evans vs others, such as Cooper, DK, Waddle, Puka, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, Odell, Hilton and I'm sure there are some others I might not be thinking of in that last decade time frame. But if I just said, "he's going to be better than Mike Evans" and leave it at that, you know everyone would call me crazy for predicting him to be a HOFer already, I view them as two different things. Like I said, Evans is a HOFer who was mostly a Top 12-15 type of guy for most of his career, I think T-Mac will spend plenty of years as a unanimous Top 10 guy and be in the Top 5 discussion. Will he have 10+ year sustained success and team success needed to make the HOF like Evans will, is impossible to predict and I wouldn't try to.

If you look at individual seasons, he's only had a couple where he could have been considered a Top 5, maybe even Top 10 WR, and that's no knock on him. You have an 11 year career where you have a couple seasons as a Top 5 WR and the rest as a Top 15ish guy, that's a hell of a career and puts you in the HOF, but I can probably easily name at least a dozen WRs over the last decade that I'd take over Evans if talking about a one game/season type of thing. I'm comparing T-Mac to Evans as a player in a vacuum, where I think he'll be better. But I'm not saying he'll have the better legacy/career because Evans was more of a very consistent very good WR than really ever a truly elite one. Case and point, he's a sure fire HOFer, who also has only been a 2nd team all pro twice. Which means the football writers only saw him and a Top 6 WR twice in his career. It's why I pointed out how it would be like comparing an RB to Frank Gore and being able to say they might be a better player, but not necessarily have a HOF career like him because that part is too dependent on other factors like health and longevity, which you can't predict.

I'm fine with that, because I genuinely think he will be better than Evans. AGAIN........ I'm not saying he will have a better career, that comes down to factors you can't predict like health and the team around him for team success. But I fully expect, if healthy, prime T-Mac will be better than prime Evans. Evans won't be a HOFer because of how good he was at his peak, but because of how long he was able to play at a high level, he'll get into the HOF because of the consecutive 1k yard seasons. But he only has 4 seasons in his career of over 1,157 yards and only 6 over 1,051 yards. If his 5 seasons between 1,001 and 1,051 yards all came up 50 yards less, and thus had 5 less 1,000 seasons, he might ever get into the HOF. If anything, it's Evans as a red zone threat that has made him a HOF more than his yardage with his 105 TDs, and that's where T-Mac will be even better than Evans because he's more athletic and thus has an even wider catch radius than Evans.

It's not a yes or no question for him, as neither just saying yes or just saying no would be a correct statement. The correct statement is that it's one of his weaknesses, as he has 3 "weaknesses" to his game, his top end speed, his initial get off at the snap, and his ability to separate on routes. HOWEVER........... Saying those are his weaknesses doesn't mean he's bad at any of them, he just isn't elite in those categories compared to the rest of his game, hence why they're "weaknesses" for him. But again, as I've pointed out many times, not many WRs of his size/style of game are elite in those areas, if they were, they would be the next Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss, and if you don't want a tall WR just because they're not Calvin/Moss, then you expect too much. He already runs a full NFL route tree at a high level, so once he crisps up some of his cuts (and more it's the post-cut separation than the cut itself) a bit as he gets better, that separation will become even better as well. It's hard to fix a bad route runner once they're already in the NFL, but getting a great route runner to be quicker into/out of his cuts is pretty standard in the NFL. I don't think he'll struggle to get enough separation in this league to be a high end #1 WR, but if you expect him to have a Jefferson or Chase ability to quickly separate, you're going to be disappointed by him in that aspect of his game. But as I've also said before, everything is a trade off, as maybe he isn't elite in those areas, but his hands, catch radius, and contested catch ability are all off the charts and I think are all better than guys like Jefferson/Chase. For a QB like Bryce, who doesn't have the huge arm to fully take advantage of a take the top off type of speed WR, his ability to place the ball where he wants would be a perfect combination with T-Mac's catch radius and hands. T-Mac is a faster but slightly less thick Mike Evans, my comp for T-Mac has always been AJ Green. I think he will be a better version of Mike Evans (note, I'm not saying he's a surefire HOFer like Evans will be, but as great as Evans is, he's only had 1 or 2 seasons where he truly was a Top 5 WR in the league, his HOF status is more about long term consistency, like Frank Gore). I'll put it this way, if he had elite speed/quickness/separation, there wouldn't even be a discussion of drafting him as there would be zero chance he'd fall to us, he legit would be in the mix for the #1 pick if that were the case as he'd be a perfect prospect. If he never improves his speed and separation, I think he ends up in that 15ish best WR in the league every year, but still a true outside #1, to me that's his floor. If he improves on them, as I think he will, then he has legit Top 5 WR potential and what I expect him to become in this league.

I'm not saying he isn't worth trading for, but if he only wants to go to a contender, you then have to have a contender who has the cap space to give him a new deal (as if you give up multiple 1sts for him and don't sign him to an extension immediately, then you're beyond dumb). I was more genuinely asking the question, as I didn't feel like looking up potential cap space amongst contenders. I'm sure there are probably a dozen or so teams that would GLADLY give up multiple firsts and give him a monster extension, but they might not be the teams he's thinking can contend in 2025 by adding him and using up their cap space and draft picks to do so.

If we add another 30+ year old WR this offseason, then we're dumber than I could imagine. That would be like trying to fix holes in a boat by using a mesh screen to patch them

I genuinely wonder what team could even make a trade for Garrett. Because it's more than just giving up the picks, as if you give up multiple 1sts for him, you HAVE to sign him to an extension to make sure you're keeping him around for years. And if you have to give him the extension right away, that also means you need a lot of cap room this offseason. How many teams are a pass rusher away from being a SB contender, have the picks, and have the cap room?

No, because I think his "lack of separation" is overblown due to the contested target statistic that was bouncing around here a month or so ago. His contested target statistic was more because of the constant double and triple teams than his inability to separate from defenders, as once he gets a little room from one, there was the double team to step right in. Plus his size and hands mitigate the issue as well, because he is so good at making contested catches by blocking out the defender with his big body and making hands catches away from his body as well.

Being in year 3 of a rookie contract doesn’t mean you’re in a win mode, having a team that is one or two players away from contention does that. we’re nowhere close to only needing one or two players to give us a shot at contending. you don’t sign a 34 year old Mack unless that’s what you think you are, we are not that right now, it’s pretty simple

Honestly, what it comes down to for me is simple. True #1 WR's never become FA's, you have to trade for one or draft one. We haven't had a true #1 since 2013 with Smith, if T-Mac is there, you have to take him. There won't be a can't miss elite pass rusher for us there, because there isn't one in the draft, if there was, it's a different discussion, but also they wouldn't make it to 8 anyways. Taking T-Mac locks down one of the most important positions in today's game for the next decade, a position we haven't been able to properly fill for 12 years.

Also, unless he is willing to sign here on the cheap, I can't see how it would be worth giving top dollar for a pass rusher of his age when we're not in a win now mode. I'd rather overpay for someone younger than pay market value for Mack right now who turns 34 this month.

That article is just a list of ESPN's top 50 free agents, and we're not mentioned in Mack's write up anyways. So.... where is this interest being talked about?

HELLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOO Lockett turns 33 a month into the season, there is no circumstance where we should be giving up draft assets for him given that alone, we need guys Bryce can grow with if he's going to be our future at QB, and if not, we need guys who will be around for whoever replaces him. Deebo is 29, only has 1 year left on his deal and in reality, just isn't a #1 WR (he only has 1 season ove4r 900 yards receiving), he's a gadget guy who can do a lot of things. Giving up draft picks for that type of player and then needing to give them a new deal as they enter their 30 year old season. If we were to target a WR through trade this offseason, DK Metcalf would be the player I'd go after in a vacuum. The real problem with that is DK is basically the player we want XL to turn into, just seems like a poor allocation of resources to go after a similar, albeit much better, style of player. I wouldn't be against giving Philly a call about AJ Brown, as they don't exactly have the most harmonious relationship there, but I don't think they move him in the end no matter how next weekend goes. As I've said numerous times, T-Mac is about our only realistic option for adding a true #1 WR this offseason, if he doesn't fall to us or we don't take him if he does, that's a role/position that won't be filled until next offseason (and no, this isn't another post to say we need to take him, just pointing out the facts that there just likely won't be #1 WRs available to us given our cap/roster abilities this offseason.