tukafan21

Darnold and Baker both bombed here with the same team and coaching and then both went on to look pretty darn good afterwards. I'm not saying Darnold (or Baker) is some elite QB, but I don't put their issues here on either of them, that staff was a joke.

Um, no, just no. Bills, Chiefs, Chargers, Ravens, Bengals, Texans, Eagles, Commanders are 8 teams that it's not even a debate, they aren't trading their QB for Purdy. Patriots, Broncos, Titans, Giants, Bears, Vikings, Falcons are 7 more teams with QBs drafted in the last 2 years that also would rather stick with them than trade for Purdy as they all have more upside than he does. Lions, Packers, Cowboys, Bucs are 4 more that would likely keep their QB's as well, age aside for Goff, Dak, and Baker. Panthers and Colts are two teams in the same situation, QB's who have both struggled and shown flashes to where the teams probably stick with them because they drafted them, but in a re-draft of all QB's, they probably take Purdy over the guy they currently have. Jags, Cardinals, Dolphins, are 3 more with QB's who probably have a higher upside than Purdy but come with their own question marks, so debatable if they'd take Purdy over who they already have. That leaves Jets, Raiders, Steelers, Browns, Saints, Seahawks, and Rams. Rams would take him over Stafford for the future of course, but not for 2025, and I'd think the Seahawks would take him over Darnold, but honestly not sure if they would take him over Milroe at this moment as they really like his potential and have him for 4 years really cheap. That leaves 5 teams that I see who would absolutely take him over their current situation right now, and a handful of others who MIGHT take him over their current guy, a far cry from your 20.

Wanting that type of play and being okay with paying $55 million a season for it are two entirely different things. If Bryce were to become the same player Purdy has been, then he would surpass my expectations of him and I'd be okay with him as our QB of the future (and again, I've long been one of the bigger anti Bryce people here who doesn't think he is capable of being our long term solution). But in no world would I be okay with paying him THAT kind of money, paying an average starter elite money is just a terrible decision.

So, one could say that T-Mac is quicker than someone of his size should be and while he might not be quite as fast as Evans in the 40, he's more athletic than Evans. If only someone, anyone, could have seen that in his tape and mentioned that on here, hmmmmmmm In all seriousness, hearing he tested in the 89th percentile in that drill at his size is crazy impressive. Just tried to look up the times of the top WRs in the league right now, most don't show at time for that, but I did see Chase ran his in 7 seconds flat. I honestly don't know how true this is, but I do remember seeing one breakdown of his tape and the person said he has quiet and efficient feet. That he's really good at using the minimal steps possible to make his cuts and because of that, it actually makes him look slower to the human eye because you don't see all the quick chop steps that the guys like Tyreek would use in their running. I'm still in a state of disbelief that he's a Panther and it might not fully hit me until week 1 and I see him out there making plays for us, still feels like Goodell is going to just be like, "YOU GOT PUNKED!!! hahaha, he's a Cowboy now, suck it"

Exactly, and I know I’ve been one of the more vocal anti-Bryce people, but for me it’s literally not even about him or what I think of him. If you don’t have a legit Top 10 QB, you’re so much better off just signing a vet for 20-30 million for a couple seasons while trying to find a new QB in the draft and hope you hit. But spending over $50 million a season on a QB who doesn’t have the ability to drag inferior talent to the playoffs is a terrible idea because you then struggle to build a good enough team around them that is needed to contend with that type of QB. Hell, if anything maybe the best case scenario is Bryce just looks serviceable again next year, so we get him to agree to like $35 million a year extension and then he blows up in year 4 and we have a bargain for a few more years.

Just wait till we do the same thing with Bryce, if a team re-signs their QB, they are always at the top of the market, there is no chance we re-sign him for anything less than $50 million. And while I still won’t root for Bryce to fail, I don’t think he’ll ever be worth paying him that kind of money so I almost hope he does fail to just save ourselves from doing that. We’re in a lose-lose situation unless he shocks the world and shows to be a legit Top 10 QB, and I don’t see that happening.

Re-seeding after the first round? I’m confused, don’t they already do that since the team with the lowest seed after the first round then plays the 1 seed? How would this be different now?

See this is the problem, you say "can't get off the line quick" and "can't separate quick" but in reality it's "he can get off the line better and create more separation" which are two completely different things. If he couldn't get off the line or separate, he wouldn't have put up the numbers he did and end up a Top 10 pick. But he can get better, and maybe more accurately, consistent with them both, and that will take his game to the next level. These are things that are also much easier to improve once you get to the NFL than things like being a poor route runner or having bad hands, two of his strengths. Thinking he can't get open in the short passing game also shows you haven't watched enough tape on him, as he was used in that role so much in college with little issue getting open and making plays. And him not using his physicality as much isn't even something that hurts his game because he's so much more agile than a player of his size should be, which he used to his advantage. Instead of throwing passes where he'd go up and box out a player like a TE or Mike Evans does, they use his athleticism and put the ball in places that only he can get to it, and he usually does (and yes, he'll still be able to do that against NFL DB's with his catch radius). But now that he's in the NFL, I'd like to see him get stronger and add that to his game because it also will help him take his game to another level. As I've said before, if he doesn't improve on those things at all, I think he's a Top 25 WR in this league, he's already that good. But I think he'll improve on those things and be a perennial Top 10 WR and in his prime is considered and perform like Top 5 guy in some years. My expectations for him this year at 800 yards and 8 TDs (although I do think he'll get to 10 TDs) with a real chance at getting to 1,000. But those expectations are because I think Thielen will lead the team in yards with close to 1k and XL/Coker each end up in the 500-600 range themselves, just too many mouths to feed this year for a rookie to dominate yardage, especially if we're running the ball well again. But if Thielen can't stay healthy or puts up sub 750 yards, then yea, my expectations for T-Mac likely shift to getting to 1k as a rookie.

What? Who's lying? And 4.8 official?!?! what now?!?! First search result brings up this article that says the 4.48 I noted... https://tucson.com/sports/college/football/wildcats/article_ff87c870-0372-11f0-ab59-f365d7aa21df.html#:~:text=McMillan's unofficial 40-yard dash,in Frisco%2C Texas this week. While another search result brings up this tweet that shows some scouts had him as low as 4.46 (so sure, I didn't remember the low end correctly when I said 4.43, but I wouldn't say that was "lying"), and I also noted how some scouts even had him a shade over 4.6 anyways, which these first two searches don't also say, but thought I read that at the time

Think the "official time" put out was 4.48, but there were a lot of scouts there who of course all had difference times as it's all handed timed by them. Think I saw it as low as 4.43 and as high as 4.62 or something, but in the end it's all basically the same speed because 40 yard dash is so pointless. Anyone who complains about his speed is just someone who wants a Chase/Jefferson/Nabers style #1 as opposed to an Evans style #1 who isn't going to beat you because of his speed but his other abilities. In the end, he's fast enough for a player his size and surprisingly quicker and more agile than people give him credit for too. The real problem is that Panthers fans can't get our past big WR failures out of their head, they hear "big WR" and automatically see a plodding KB or Jarrett in their minds and assume that's also T-Mac.

Lol fair, and you might, but too many people still keep saying “well the great WRs are putting up 1k as rookies now” and just disregard that the rookies who do that are generally the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options in their passing game as rookies, while we have a true room full of potential weapons this year.

His stats in a bubble this year won’t say if he was a bust, or even necessarily the opposite and that he’s a star. It’s all relative to the offense as a whole, as there is a very real chance he only has 750 yards and 8 TDs, but does that in a high functioning offense where we have 4 WRs over 500 yards and 2 RBs over 750 yards rushing. In a scenario like that, his “depleted stats” wouldn’t be because he was a bust but because we had a well balanced offense. I keep saying 2026 will be the year to judge him once Thielen is gone and it opens up 100+ targets in 2026 and don’t bring in anyone to replace him but spread it out to the guys already here to produce more.

Oh I know they’re trolls, but I’m still not going to let a troll slander my GOAT without responding with why they’re woefully incorrect

It’s not a brag, it’s pointing out facts The bragging will come a few years from now when we have one of the true elite WRs in the league and I can sit back and just say, “I told you so”

Dead serious….. I think some of these guys who are still hating on him aren’t doing it because they don’t like the pick or they want to be right about not wanting him…. It’s that I fought for him soooooooooo much on here that they just want me to be wrong in the end, that’s it. and guy kinda just admitted as much a few minutes ago

If the person on these boards who knows his game best is pointing out flat out incorrect statements about his game and laying out multiple real reasons why that’s the case makes you dislike our Top 10 pick…… then that’s a you problem, sorry bud It’s not like I’m just saying “you’re wrong, he’s awesome, you suck” I’m laying out very specific things and pointing directly to the things he does in great detail. If it’s just that you do t want to read every word and digest it, then again, that’s a you problem.

Yea, I’ve watched that video from each of his last 2 seasons like 5 times each. On top of watching every snap of his live, on top of discussing his game for 3 years on my Arizona hoards, on top of following and watching all the pre-draft stuff. I’m not saying I’m a savant on him, just that I know nobody here has spent more time watching ad discussing him than I have

I wasn’t saying other people couldn’t have gone and watched all his snaps, but I can’t see there being a single person here who has watched him more than me (and by here I literally mean these boards, not like the Panthers scouts and such). I’d bet my bottom dollar there isn’t a single person on these boards who watched every snap of his live, then spent the last 3 years watching highlights/clips during that time, as well as spending those years discussing him on message boards after every game too. Not saying I know his game better than everyone in the told, just on these boards and the people who are discussing him on here.

Have you even been reading my posts? I'm not so sure because you seem to insinuate that I'm expecting some monster year 1 season, but I've time and time again said I'm only expecting 800 yards from him as a rookie. Because like you said, it's not in his control, we have a bunch of good receiving options and two 1k yard RBs in what should be a run first offense. And yes, I'm very much a T-Mac homer, I've never once denied it, I'm an Arizona alumni who has been open about that from the very first thread I made about him over 18 months ago. But that doesn't mean I'm blindly expecting him to be an All Pro as a rookie, I just know more about his game than most people here who watch his highlights and breakdowns. Which generally focus on the things he does best and worst to highlight his best abilities (his downfield contested catches) and where he needs to improve (separation) as those are the two things fans care most about when talking about the draft. What those breakdowns don't cover much are the "boring and mundane" things he does very well and exactly what you are talking about needing for Bryce. He was constantly used in the short passing game, whether they be WR screens or quick slants, to get the ball in his hands and let him make plays, it's why he was 5th in the Big 12 in YAC last year. With his size and hands, when he runs a quick 5 yard slant in front of the defender and the QB delivers the ball on time with anticipation, creating buckets of separation isn't needed, he's going to make the catch and then get some YAC for a 1st down. Go watch the 30 minute YT videos that string together every catch he made last year (or the same thing from 2023) and you'll see those plays constantly, but in the analyst breakdowns leading into the draft those things don't get discussed as much as the big plays and then the things he needs to work on, because they're just not as "sexy" to talk about as those. Per your ask... He has 3 main things he needs to improve upon, and again, "needing to improve" doesn't mean "he's terrible" at them, just things he can get better at, like all young players have things to work on. 1. His get off at the snap. For all the amazing things he did for us at Arizona, this was always the thing that would frustrate me the most, as he generally was a bit slow to fire off the line. The nice thing is even in the minimal clips we've seen from rookie mini camp, his initial fire off the line already appears to have been sped up a lot, he clearly has been working on that in the lead up to the draft. 2. His separation Yea, he's not a 6' quick twitch athlete, so his separation is never going to be at the level of a Chase or Jefferson. I've always admitted that, but because he's not one of those guys, he also brings a lot of things that those others can't. His catch radius and hands are why I'm not as concerned about his separation, because he's so good at making those contested catches by snatching the ball away from his body to where the defender can't get to it to break it up. But yes, he does still need to get better here, just as all rookies have things to improve upon. 3. Using his body more physically This is something that he did at times, but he also is just a great athlete for his size and would often rely on his physical abilities to make defenders miss him in the open field than just power through them, which is fine in college. But yes, at the next level, as he gets older and stronger, I'd like to see him use it more like Evans does, and that will come with time as he builds strength and develops that part of his game. Again, I implore you to to spend an hour watching those "Every catch from the X season" for his last two years in college. If/when you do, I think you're going to be very surprised by the number of times we used him in the short passing game and let him gain YAC to move the ball down the field.

I've watched literally every single snap of T-Mac's career, there isn't a person on these boards who knows his game better than I do. And I'm telling you, he is a great fit for what Bryce does well, period. You keep talking about these "get open quick WRs" as what Bryce needs, but I couldn't disagree more, because it blatantly disregards what Bryce does best. AND NO.... that's not me saying we don't need any "get open quick" type of WRs, I've long said we still needed one of those in addition to a true outside #1, but it's not the only type of WR that can be a successful pairing with Bryce. Bryce's biggest strength is his mental side of the game, he reads defenses and plays chess instead of checkers. That type of QB doesn't need to rely on his WR's to quickly create acres of separation because their mental side of the game will mean they are going to put the ball on the WR when they create even minimal separation, as he's going to anticipate it and throw the ball before the WR has even made his cut on the route. AND THAT is where and why Bryce and T-Mac are a great pairing. When you have a guy with T-Mac's hands and catch radius, he doesn't need 5 yards of separation to get open and have Bryce then get the ball to him. Bryce is going to be throwing the ball before he even makes his cut, so even if all T-Mac is able to do is create 1 yard of separation, the ball is getting to him when he creates that and because of his hands and size, he's plucking that ball out of the air before the defender even has a chance to close that 1 yard, because the ball is there as soon as T-Mac creates the room and turns his head.

Which, again, is why T-Mac and Bryce make for a great pairing. Bryce isn't a "throw it past the defense and let a speedster chase it down" type of deep ball thrower, his deep ball is more of a jump ball because he doesn't have a cannon for an arm. Who know who is great at deep jump balls? T-Mac Who know who is also pretty darn good at running short routes for quick passes? T-Mac Too many people have only watched his highlight reels, which usually consist of the crazy catches he makes, not the mundane ones where he runs a short slant across the middle for quick pass and runs for 10 yards for a first down. He was 5th in the Big 12 in YAC last year, but because he's more well known for the crazy contested catches he's able to make, people just assume that's all he can do and he doesn't have YAC ability, which couldn't be more incorrect.

Because most fans are stupid who can't understand the reasoning behind stats and can only look at individual player statistics in a vacuum. See my previous post for full breakdown lol

If those are T-Mac's first 2 seasons, then yes, our fans will be calling him a bust for sure. But raw stats after the fact don't tell the full story, it all depends how they happen. And to everyone who keeps saying he needs to get to 1,000 yard as a rookie because that's what elite rookie WRs do now, they keep just looking at things in a vacuum and not the full picture. Usually the rookies who get to that mark are the only legitimate option in the passing attack for those teams. Anyone trying to point to guys like Nabers or BTJ last year are completely missing the point, T-Mac is not in remotely close to the same situation and is far more similar to MHJ and Odunze last year. The Giants 2nd and 3rd WRs last year were Wan'Dale Robinson and Slayton who had 699 and 573 yards, their 4th leading WR had a grand total of 62 yards in 16 games (their 3rd-7th leading rec yards were TE's and RBs). The Jags 2nd and 3rd WRs last year were Parker Washington and Kirk with 390 and 379 yards, while their 4th WR was Gabe Davis with 239 (while their 2nd leading rec yards was a TE with 411). The Cardinals had McBride with 111 catches for 1,146 yards The Bears had Moore with 98 for 966 and Allen with 70 for 744 Thielen, XL, Coker are absurdly better than the other WR options the Giants and Jags had last year, there is a real argument to make that our 4th best WR was better than those team's 2nd best. That alone is a huge hurdle to T-Mac getting to the 1,000 yard mark as a rookie, no matter how ready he may or may not be. MHJ was supposed to be the most pro-ready WR prospect in a LONG time and having McBride there was the main reason he finished with "only" 885 yards as a rookie.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, at least in terms of why this was the response to my post. I'm not saying he's going to struggle, I'm saying the exact opposite, that he's going to be a successful rookie directly because he's NOT a developmental project. I've said before my expectations are 800 yards and 10 TDs, but he very well could get over 1,000. I'm not going to EXPECT 1,000 because I do think we're going to be a run first team and Thielen is still going to be Bryce's safety valve just because of their history together, so it's unrealistic for me to say that's my expectation, but it's certainly more than possible. And if you were to tell me right now that Thielen has 600 or less yards this year, then I'd change my T-Mac expectation to the 1,000 yard mark, but I think it's more likely that Thielen leads the team in yards if he plays a full season healthy and then T-Mac explodes in year 2 for 1,200+ when all those Thielen targets are up for grabs.

He played in the Big 12 last year, not like he was in the MAC or something. Also, in 2023 for the last year of the Pac 12, they legit might have been the best conference in the nation that year when he had 90 catches for 1,402 yards and 10 TDs in a season where they played against 7 ranked teams and 4 of the 7 were Top 12 teams when they played. Not being a great separator doesn't mean he's a developmental prospect, especially when that is almost his only weakness and he still put up over 2,700 yards in his final 2 seasons of college. It just means he has something to work on, but he's basically the picture perfect definition of NOT a developmental prospect but someone who should be able to produce immediately. XL with his 5 years in college but only 1 season of production with weak route running and questionable hands but elite athleticism, THAT is the definition of a developmental project. I love how the T-Mac haters only focus on the things they think he does poorly and needs to improve upon and extrapolate that out to mean he's not that good and needs time to develop, but completely disregard the stats he put up with those "problems." If he was as bad at those things that the haters like to insinuate, he'd never have been able to do what he did in college, level of competition aside, which again is still far better than people want to give it credit for anyways.