tukafan21

If we trade our 2026 1st for a WR, then we're the dumbest franchise in the history of sports. Bryce isn't the future, no matter how much some people here want to believe he still has it in him. If we trade our 1st rounder in a QB loaded draft, for the right to give a $30 million contract to a WR, then we deserve all the bad things that happen to us.

I know I saw some say that in the offseason, not sure I've seen any rank him over either T-Mac or Hunter as of late (and I may be wrong, not like I've seen all the rankings). But either way, it's the same argument that I've been making for why T-Mac makes so much sense for us, but in reverse for Burden. We need an outside #1 WAY more than another slot dominant WR, and you can find the smaller quick twitch slot WRs in the middle rounds and in FA. We have so many holes, I can't see over drafting a slot WR when we have so many other holes.

Not with a Top 5 pick, and if we trade down, it's for an edge rusher that makes sense in that 10-12 range as opposed to the Top 5. Like the player, just don't like how he aligns with our draft position

There's no good answer here I've said numerous times I'm not touching Hunter even if he's there, and Burden is the next up in the draft, but he's a slot WR and not worth a Top 5 pick anyways, no way I'm taking him there (and if I'm trading back, I'm not doing it to take a WR, it's to get additional draft picks and taking an edge rusher at a draft slot that makes sense for the prospect). Not a fan of taking ANOTHER 2nd round WR and hoping they pan out, I'd say to target someone like a DK Metcalf who the Seahawks might not want to give a new contract to, but not like we have the right assets to even make a serious offer as there is no way in hell I'm giving up future 1st round picks. Overpay for Higgins? Even though I really don't want to use our cap room on offense. Go another year without a true #1? That feels like the final answer unfortunately

It’s a misleading stat As I also pointed out, the guy followed that tweet up by saying the next names on the list are some of the best young WRs in the league right now. That stat doesn’t mean he can’t get separation, it means he’s getting double and triple teamed all the time, and the lack of other quality options in that offense means the QB is constantly forcing the ball to him when he shouldn’t be. AND he still makes those contested catches because his hands and catch radius are so good.

We will have cap room and for the most part, the best free agents every year are on the defensive side of the ball because teams try not to let their offensive stars hit the open market. Drafting defense early in the draft won't have as much of an impact as adding T-Mac would, especially if we use all our cap room on the defense in free agency. If T-Mac is there, he's the pick, he's literally the best player/fit combo in the draft for this franchise and the current state of the roster. XL has potential but he's never going to be that true outside #1. The best defensive players in the draft are two CBs and a DT, the only positions on defense that we have potential pro bowl talent right now. None of the QB's in this draft make sense to go for after we made the Bryce mistake so recently and still have so many holes. We're set on the offensive line right now except Center, which obviously you don't use a Top 5 pick for. If we end up around 10, T-Mac isn't going to be there and it's the right place in this draft to go after an edge rusher, but if we're at about 5, T-Mac really needs to be the target.

Yea, seems like a tweet written to get interactions, as that follow up he made completely changes it. If he included those names in the first tweet, it would have entirely changed how people took it. Like I said, if you've watched every snap of his like I have, he has zero issue getting separation, his contested targets are because of the double/triple teams as well as the QB just forcing it to him when he is covered (as no WR gets open on EVERY route they run no matter how good they are). When a QB/WR combo in college have played together for literally the last 8 years of their lives and are best friends, as well as having no other receiving threats, you're going to see a lot of that QB just trusting his WR to make a play and chuck it up to him when he shouldn't. No, he's not a quick twitch athlete like a Tyreek and going to get separation in that same way, but as I've said every time people mention T-Mac's size and assume he's just a plodding big WR... he's not. He has MORE than enough speed and wiggle in his game to get the job done at an elite level in the NFL, he just also happens to be 6'5" with a catch radius the NFL hasn't seen since Calvin Johnson. And any "lack of separation" he might have compared to those 6' quick twitch speedsters, is negated by how great he is at making contested catches.

I also just went and looked at the actual tweet, he even followed it up by saying the next 4 names on the list if he kept it going would be Tee Higgins, Marvin Harrison Jr, George Pickens, Ja'Marr Chase and then shorty after that you have DK Metcalf, Brian Thomas Jr, and Drake London. So basing your opinion on T-Mac based on that initial tweet is obviously not exactly fair, as that number clearly can mean the player either can't get separation, or they're so good that the defense throws so many defenders at them that they rack up contested targets.

Go watch him play and tell me you think he has separation issues, because he doesn't. Like I said, I can't speak for those other players when they were in college, but I know separation isn't T-Mac's issue, it's the coverage and the lack of other options so the QB forces the ball to him even when he shouldn't. Having contested targets because of lack of separation and because of constant double (or triple) teams are two entirely different things. You can separate from your initial defender all you want, but when 90% of your routes have safety help over the top and/or linebacker help underneath, even when you separate from the CB, there is still someone else there to contest the pass, which he still makes the catch most of the time anyways. It can't be forgotten that T-mac and his QB are best friends and have been playing together since they were in the 8th grade. He's the ultimate safety valve for our QB and it shows during games, any time he has to scramble in the pocket (which is often), he chucks it up to T-Mac no matter how many defenders are around him, which racks up those contested target numbers.

Why did this guy end the tweet with "Yikes" as if this is a bad stat just because those other players haven't become anything in the NFL? I'm not as familiar with those other guys' college games, maybe they had so many contested targets because they weren't great route runners and separating, but T-Mac's is because he's is CONSTANTLY double and even triple teamed and Fifita has been forcing passes to him because there is nobody else to pass to. And yet he still is coming down with the ball most of the time To me, this is just another feather in his cap for why he's such an elite prospect.

Dude, cmon now First, Deion isn't an NFL coach, his style of talking to the players and motivating them won't work in the NFL with grown men making 10's of millions of dollars like it does in a college locker room with a handful of guys making decent NIL and the rest kids with a couple of bucks in their pocket. Second, it would be the DUMBEST thing of all time for a team to hire Deion and then draft Shedeur. Especially in a division with the HC/QB combinations that KC, LA, and Denver have and how hard it's going to be to be a yearly contender in that division. You're going to have to fire Deion at some point, it's very rare for HC's these days to last over 10 years in a position unless they are a multiple SB winner. Especially when you have a pretty weak roster that isn't built to immediately contend, even if you hit on the QB. How are you going to fire Deion and expect to be able to keep Shedeur from revolting and demanding a trade? It's just an ugly situation that is easily avoidable by keeping your HC or hiring anyone else.

Except it's actually the opposite. Betting and Fantasy Football are the exact reasons that the NFL is what it is today. They're the direct reason for the exploding viewership numbers the last 20 years and thus the explosion of the media contracts which fund the league and it's teams. You can make the argument that it has ruined the experience for some portion of fans who don't care about it, but it's what has built the league into the monster it is today.

Coker can definitely play in the slot, but I also think he could more of an outside WR than Thielen ever could be. If we can draft T-Mac, I actually don't hate the idea of Coker being the other outside WR with XL mostly lining up in the slot. No, he's not that quick shifty type of slot, but he thrives over the middle and putting the ball in his hands to make plays after the catch, which is something great slot WR's do. I'd love to see us try and get mist-matches with XL's size matched up on nickel package DB's and see if we can take advantage of that as the safety help will be shading towards T-Mac. XL could eat all game long if he gets 1 on 1 coverage by nickel DBs. He'd need to work on his route running a bit to me more crisp in his cuts, but I think it could give us some nice opportunities with him lining up there.

someone still can't make a coherent argument for or against players based on football specific traits and how they translate to the next level lol

Interesting, don't remember hearing about either of them, but they are pretty old at this point so maybe I had and just forgot over the years since then. Maybe would need to look into it more, but I don't know, if it's not a player we're trying to build our future around and it's not something most people even remember these days, not sure if it's the type of thing that would make me want to not sign him for this type of situation. If there was some strong evidence out there that he did something terrible, other than just settlements, maybe it would be different. Like Tyreek, I'd never be okay with him on the Panthers because there is that audio clip out there of him arguing with his wife/GF and saying how she and their son should be afraid of him and what not. But again, first I'm seeing this, so don't know the details and only skimmed the articles. As like you said, we don't know the history of all our players, in fact, I'd bet at least one player on our team has done some pretty awful stuff in the past (and I'd probably say that about every team these days, this league is filled with a bunch of questionable character people) and we just don't know it.

Oh of course it would be great to have that guy, but the point is we have guys on the roster who we like their potential and could turn into that type of player. Most teams really only have 4 playable WRs, maybe a 5th, with a 6th who might be a returner. If we already have XL, Coker, maybe still Thielen and then hopefully T-Mac, getting a Thielen replacement to learn from him wouldn't make as much sense from an overall roster building standpoint than getting a smaller, speedier, quick twitch, type of slot WR instead. There's lots of types of players we'd love to have, but in a given offseason, you can only fill so many holes, I think that quick twitch guy is more of a need to get for next season than another Thielen type given our current roster, that's all.

Yea I was against Watson too, but I honestly don't remember anything about Jameis abusing women, so maybe I'm just not familiar with that story. That is something I'm against too, but at the same time, we're not signing him to be the face of the franchise for the next 10 years, it would be signing him for 1, maybe 2 years, and solely using him to help build up the rest of our players. If there was ever a situation to look past some off field transgressions, it would be there, where you're not trying to make them a focal point of the franchise moving forward. If there was someone else similar, I'd have no problem going that route either. I just want a QB next year who is a gunslinger who is going to get our young weapons the targets they need to improve their game, whether it's Jameis or someone else, that's the type of QB I want next year.

nah, he should be the starter. We're not going to be contenders next year and we're not likely to find our QB of the future this offseason. So next year becomes about one thing, building up our young players as quickly and as much as possible. And of all the QB's we could potentially sign or trade for next year to be our starter, Jameis is likely the best candidate to do that for us. Yes, his mistakes will cost us games, but that's all they will cost us, those INTs that make us lose a game won't hinder the development our WRs, TEs, and RBs get because of the 50 passes he'll throw in a game to all levels of the field.

I was only using Samuel as an example as he was an easy one people here know well, and it had nothing to do with his or Thielen's statistical outcome, it was just meant to be about their style of play. Thielen is one of the best route runners in the league, with sure hands, but isn't going to run away from anyone or make a defender miss him in a phone booth with his quick twitch movements. Samuel is someone who isn't going to run the most pristine routes, but he's a player you just need to get the ball in his hands for him to use his explosiveness to make people miss and make plays. With XL and Coker already on the roster, they project to have more of a game similar to Thielen from the slot than a Samuel. That is why I'm saying if we are going out to get a pure slot WR, it should be someone in the mold of a Samuel, a quick twitch speedster, not a slower route running specialist.

You make an asinine claim about Lawrence not having the tools of an elite QB (which, spoiler alert, he 100% has all the tools, the question at hand is if he's going to follow through on the potential he has, but the tools themselves, they're all there). And someone brings this up and then mentions a QB in this upcoming draft class, WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREA IS ABOUT, and says how they believe he's not going to make it in the NFL, and you do what you always do, you jump on them being a homer of some sort. All because they said something negative about the two players you have an unhealthy love affair of. How about for once trying to defend your positions, explain why you don't think Lawrence has the tools to be elite, explain why you think Shedeur does, don't just say they have an agenda. But you don't do that, because you don't actually know football, you don't know how to watch someone in college and project how their abilities will translate to an entirely different game in the NFL.\ You are a box score, Madden style, hype machine analyst who can't separate the trivial things from real things.

I wasn't even looking for proof of you being wrong and me correct on something, was just looking back on the thread I made over a year ago about T-Mac and found this gem in there. You wanted to go O-Line with our first two picks and that we would make a splash in FA at WR. I agreed on using cap room on a WR, but I also told you there wasn't going to be a WR in FA (which there wasn't) and that we should try to trade Burns for one (maybe we did and it didn't work, who knows). I also told you that trying to hit on two OL in the 2nd and 3rd isn't the right route to go, but using that cap room on some guards is how you do it (which we did, and it's working). Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Interesting isn't it (and yes, I know I was wrong on using that 2nd rounder on a defensive player, but that was also off the hope of using Burns help get a WR, which was the right idea, I was hoping Aiyuk, just wasn't able to be done in the end).

Also in all of this, the real key game is the Browns beating the Dolphins or getting another unexpected upset. As the Titans and Jets are more than likely to win at least 1 more game, so as long as the Browns get one more win, winning one more ourselves keeps us 5th at worst, we'd move up to 4th if the Jags are able to win 2 games with the Top 3 being some order of Giants, Raiders, Patriots.

The Patriots beating the Bills at home in week 18 is way more realistic than you might think on the surface, which is why us losing out is so big for our draft status. As to why the Patriots might beat the Bills....... - If KC wins out through Week 17 (LAC, @CLE, HOU, @PIT), which is very possible, should win all going into Pittsburgh game - The Steelers lose 2 games, and their next 3 games after the Browns at home this week are at @PHI, @BAL, KC - The Bills lose only 1 game before Week 18, and they play in Detroit next week with Detroit coming off a Thursday game and added rest, with their other games being @LA, NE, NYJ, all games they should win. Then KC will have the 1 seed locked up and Buffalo will have the 2 seed locked up as well, nobody could catch either of them in Week 18 no matter what else happens until then. That will be a NE team with a bunch of coaches and players playing for their jobs for next season or at worst, auditioning for new ones against a team likely of all the Bills backups. I think they would actually win that game and entirely shake up the top of the draft order. My hope is the above very real possible scenario happens, we lose out, as well as the following very possible outcomes..... Jags and Titans split and then Jags then lose out (which would give the Raiders and Jets wins), Raiders lose out besides Jags game, the Browns beat the Dolphins at home in the cold in week 17 (or another surprise upset win), and the Giants lose out If that happens the draft is Giants, Panthers, Jags, Raiders... rest doesn't matter We swap picks with the Raiders to pick up more picks. Draft goes... Ward, Shedeur, Hunter, and we get to take T-Mac while adding whatever picks we are able to squeeze out of the Raiders. Or if Deion were to make it known we better not draft Hunter, I'd rather the Jags win an extra game so we're really only moving back 1 pick, that way there is no risk of Deion doing that to the Jags too and them taking T-Mac themselves, haha. Dream scenario that needs a lot to play out, but honestly, not one thing in all of that is really all that crazy. The toughest outcomes to get are probably the Chiefs winning in Pittsburgh and the Browns beating the Dolphins in Cleveland, neither of which are far fetched at all, in fact, all the other games the team we'd need to win would likely be the favorites. Lions with extra rest beating the Bills in Detroit would be the key domino in the whole thing though, as if Buffalo keeps winning, they'll still have a shot at the 1 seed in week 18 and the Patriots likely lose out and get the #2 pick and they get to trade with the Raiders.

This is exactly why I want him as our QB next year after taking T-Mac and having a great young group of offensive weapons who need to expedite their seasoning. He says and does some really weird things, but even with how much they're laughing at him here, McCoy says how much he loves Jameis, because despite the weird stuff, his teammates love him and he's a pretty good leader (except for maybe the pregame hype speech apparently lol). All that combined with his arm talent and no fear of attempting any pass, he's the perfect QB to help build up young WRs, TEs, and RBs like we have. Let him get them better for a season or two and then go all in on a FA, trade, or trade up in the draft to get the right QB to add into all that talent for a real SB run. I'm fine with losing 3-4 extra games for that season or two with him as our QB if it means our young offensive skill position guys have an expedited growth of their game because he's gonna sling that rock all over the place and at a high volume.

Nah I love Thielen and he's a more than valuable player, but I think we have that role covered a bit with XL (in terms of the going across the middle) and if we were to draft T-Mac, he also thrives on crossing routes and absorbing hits while making crazy grabs. I'd rather have a peak Curtis Samuel type of slot WR over a Thielen, especially with XL and Coker already on the roster who are more in the Thielen mold from the slot than a Samuel, even if they aren't exactly Thielen of course.