panthers55

So I send you an article quoting Mahomes saying that he owes his superstrong arm to a baseball drill he has practiced since he was 5 and that isn't evidence that you can gain strength and improve your velocity through exercise and physical training? Nowhere did he talk about god given talent but hard work practice and repetition. Where is the evidence to back up your supposition it is God given and not amenable to change. Then we at least have something to discuss. So far it is your opinion

I would agree that many QBs do max out after college but the question is whether they could get more velocity or not. Obviously if you throw hard already you don't need to but how about guys who don't have strong arms like Bridgewater. He looks like a bean pole and really needs to put on some serious muscle. Will it turn him into a strong passer? Unlikely but could he improve significantly? I think he could be better if he had a stronger base and more lower body strength. Given that Jones can throw 35 yards in the air and drop a dime he might think he is fine. I think he needs to work on his velocity.

You are right throwing velocity doesn't go up for many nfl QBs but not because you can't improve it but rather it isn't a major focus for most QBs. Maybe because coaching staffs don't think that is where QBs should spend the bulk of their time and energy.

Just what I said. Ball velocity is impacted by technique and arm strength. And with improved technique and more arm strength you can improve your ability to throw harder. Here is an article discussing how to help young pitchers gain velocity. And none of them say give up because it is god given And your analogies are wrong. Maddox never tried to throw a 90 mph fastball. He was all about ball placement and varying his speed and angle to get folks looking or swinging out of the strike zone. I am sure if he focused on throwing faster he could have. After all he threw in the mid 80s. Ball velocity is not the most important part of being a pitcher just like arm strength is not that important in the NFL. As for why guys in the NFL don't improve their skills, then tell me why Cam struggled his whole career with accuracy and decision making. He had the arm strength, according to you it is easy to become more accurate and improve your ability to speed up your decision making. He surely had great work effort, so what was the problem??? Obviously genetics play a part as torque or arm velocity is driven by a number of factors like body mass, length of your arms and legs but so much more is technique. Can you improve your ball velocity? Of course. Here are some articles. https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/1257/4-exercises-to-build-quarterback-arm-strength https://www.stack.com/a/how-to-throw-harder. https://www.stack.com/a/the-childhood-drill-that-helped-pat-mahomes-build-superhuman-arm-strength#:~:text=Skills %2F%2F Baseball-,The Childhood Drill That Helped Pat Mahomes Build Superhuman Arm,shreds the laws of physics. Gee Mahomes discusses that his ability to throw a long way wasn't god given it was developed through exercise since he was 5. Seems you could learn something from the old guys.

That isn't true at all. If you throw an 85 mph fastball as a college player, you think you can't improve on that based on better technique and more muscle and get in the 90s. You think guys don't train for the combine and improve their 40 time ? And you really think it is easier to change your fundamentals and consistency which is why most QBs are inaccurate easier than hitting the gym and adding 15 lbs of muscle. Or do you think arm strength isn't about how much muscle you have?? Strength isn't god given, it is developed by hard work over time. Look at Smitty when he came in the league and then in 2005. You think he didn't get stronger. Height might be God given but strength isn't.

I would like us to draft Wilson if we can move up without giving up the farm. But it depends on the asking price. The same with Watson. Who wouldn't want these guys? But if we stay at 8 I would be fine with Jones at that point more so than Lance.

Actually we didn't. Simms said that Jones was a better prospect than Tua. That is new and totally germaine to this conversation.

I guess you missed where folks said he has a good deep ball and can throw it 40 yards in the air and hit receivers in stride. https://www.si.com/college/alabama/bamacentral/deep-ball-specialist-mac-jones-perfecting-art-of-the-long-touchdown-blackwell https://nflmocks.com/2021/02/01/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-mac-jones/ The knock is average not below average but average arm strength but is great throwing the deep ball. Maybe it is me but it seems a few months with the weights can improve your arm strength much quicker than changing your fundamentals to be more accurate or to show better football awareness.

It wasn't Phil Simms, it was Chris Simms. You know that has been right every year for the most part. It is fine though. Just like when I said Brown was going to be a great pick last year and was so excited when we got Chinn, I can wait for things to shake out.

Agree that he isn't that athletic but arm strength is not that big of deal. His deep ball for example is one of his best attributes. His arm is in par with many QBs currently playing in this league and that is something that is likely to improve with an NFL conditioning program. On the other hand accuracy and quick decisionmaking don't necessary improve

And athleticism has unfortunately been overhyped and things like accuracy and speed of processing information has been undervalued. When if you don't have the last 2, the amount of athleticism is only great if you want to convert to a wide receiver or tight end.

That isn't true. Here is a recent article saying just that. https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/next-pats-podcast-would-mac-jones-be-good-fit-patriots-qb Plus Simms thinks Jones is better than Tua and he has been right over the last several drafts. https://www.essentiallysports.com/nfl-news-popular-analyst-claims-alabama-mac-jones-is-a-better-nfl-prospect-as-compared-to-miami-dolphins-tua-tagovailoa/

Jones is better than Tua according to Devonta Smith who caught passes from them both. And he said it isn't close. Plus Smith is the best receiver in the draft. https://www.google.com/amp/s/saturdayblitz.com/2021/02/22/alabama-football-mac-jones-really-better-tua-tagovailoa/amp/

He isn't polarizing like Lance or some other prospect. He is a proven winner who did everything asked of him. I don't think he has many physical limitations given that athleticism is down the list of necessary attributes for a QB. There are many guys who have been successful who weren't physical specimens. Plus I think that Jones is likely working in these issues as we speak. And these supposed issues are not as great as some would suggest. For example he throws a good consistent deep ball and can make all the throws. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/college/alabama/.amp/bamacentral/deep-ball-specialist-mac-jones-perfecting-art-of-the-long-touchdown-blackwell

If he had said Grier was good then his credibility might be tarnished but he didn't. Which is why I listen to him. He is one of the few that is right a lot more than he is wrong. I didn't say Lance is a bust simply he is the biggest gamble among the top 5 or 6 QBs. Which is what drops him to the second round.

People look at Jones and forget he only started this past season. Why is his current performance indicative of his potential? Can a guy get more athletic with training? Can they get stronger or even faster. (Within reason of course). He may never be considered athletic but those who think what you see is all you get are way underselling his potential

If he had the same QB coaches the whole time that might apply but he has had several and the same issues are still there.

Given Lance has played 1 game in the last 400 days I suspect lots of folks want more of an up close look.

I hear about his hard working habits in the gym. But I have always wondered why it never translated to better fundamentals, better understanding of defenses and more accuracy. You would think if he worked at those as hard as he did the gym he would be further along after 10 years in the league. Not saying he isn't a hard worker but it seems not to translate equally among his skills.

And film is in the eyes of the beholder. Two guys see the exact same thing and come to completely different conclusions. Then what? You look for other things including stats to provide Context. Like watching Jones first few games as a starter in college this year and drawing many conclusions versus looking at how he progressed over the year and extrapolating his potential given he only started 1 year in college. Folks aren't calling him raw and unfinished like they do about guys with less than 20 starts in college.

He didn't get a few right. Tell me anyone who does this rating QBs who has been more on target than Simms. Secondly while Lance may go high, he is a second round talent. He is the biggest boom bust guy out there. He has played 1 game in the last 400 days. Wait and see when Simms is right again this year maybe you will wake up and start paying attention to the guys really in the know.

The problem with sound bytes like this is context. Are we talking 1 or 50? The film shows 1. Plus those first 8 games were his first 8 starts in college. What about comparing his first 4 games with his last 4 and evaluate his improvement. No this says little to nothing. I will go with Simms on this one who has a track record of correctly predicting who will be best in the NFL.

Which is why a guy like Simms who.played QB in the NFL and has been right on with his evaluations over several years should be heeded. He said Jones is underated and given he was a 1 year starter is well ahead of where you expect. Not only does he move well in the pocket but he looks off safeties, goes through his progressions and did things in college that many rookie in the NFL still havent mastered. Stats are just numbers but film is important and his is good from what I have read from folks who should know.

And folks who evaluate QBs like Simms and has done the job himself and has been right on for several.of the drafts says the film is good and he can make all the throws. As a 1 year starter his skills are much further along than you would expect. So you are wrong, his film is actually very good. What too many are looking at is one picture where he looks fat.

We should do both. Roll with Teddy and draft Mac Jones. Cut Teddy after this season and then get a vet or another draft pick for Teddy next year. Then we have our starter and backup and are ready to roll.