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Gerald McCoy Best DT in NFL?

Plewis

By Plewis,
in Carolina Panthers

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BucBall38 Newbie

BucBall38

Posted
Posted

I'll assume Lovie was speaking of 4-3 DT, so great 3-4 guys like JJ Watt and Ngata aren't part of the comparison in this context.  That being said here are few FACTS to support Lovie's claim.

 

  • McCoy was the top rated DT by his colleagues according to NFL top 100
  • McCoy was top rated DT by NFL writers according to 1st team All Pro selection
  • McCoy was top rated DT by the stat geeks at PFF.com 

That is 3 separate independent sources the all rated McCoy the best 4-3 DT.  Is there another source that rates someone above McCoy?  

 

For what the Bucs scheme on defense asks from the 3-tech (attack a gap, penetrate, cause disruption) McCoy is "the best" currently.    

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Regulator16 Newbie

Regulator16

Posted
Posted

McCoy...

 

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2008/6/2/544329/football-explained-left-de

Star...

 

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2008/5/29/542027/football-explained-right-d

 

It really comes down to scheme and how they are being used. So Star may fit Carolina's scheme, but McCoy fits Tampa's scheme. I don't see how this can even be an argument at this point. Just like Panthers' fans will always point out Luke's DPOY and DROY...Tampa fans can go strait to McCoys back to back probowls and his All-pro status. Star may eventually get up there and take the title, but till then, McCoy is the best as voted by his peers and by more than a fair share of media and stat sites. 

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TheMaulClaw Mentor

TheMaulClaw

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Posted

A 0 technique tackle and 3 technique tackle do totally different things, even in a 43. I mean, sure, they're both DTs, but it's like comparing Wes Welker to Randy Moss. They're both awesome at what they do, but they do totally different things.

 

Star isn't just a 0 tech though.  That's a strength of his.  I've seen film where's he's line up all over the interior line.  As well as him releasing outside to contain the outside rush while the DE drops into coverage.   He's a rare DT athletically where he could anchor a 3-4 like Ngata does for the Ravens, yet he possesses enough athleticism to get outside to stop screen plays. 

 

Also even though Welker and Moss are different, ultimately their positions are the same, they just skin the cat differently from each other because of body type and skill set. They might be utilized differently because of their physical strengths, but both can be featured as a number 1 receiver.  Using that same logic every player is their own position because their differentiating physical makeup. 

 

 

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Ruff Newbie

Ruff

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Star isn't just a 0 tech though.  That's a strength of his.  I've seen film where's he's line up all over the interior line.  As well as him releasing outside to contain the outside rush while the DE drops into coverage.

 

Also even though Welker and Moss are different, ultimately their positions are the same, they just skin the cat differently from each other because of body type and skill set. 

 

This isn't necessarily true. The WR position is broken down into subpositions, just like the DT position. You have your X receivers, your Z receivers, and your slot receivers. All of those guys do vastly different things. In fact, there's a really good break down by a former college and NFL QB that can be found at http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?more_page=1&podcast=ian_furness&selected_podcast=MILLENCAST_7_16_12_1342469492_1569.mp3 . Millen (the former QB) compares the X and Y receivers to 2nd and 3rd basemen. 

 

He says, and I quote,

"I think it's a lot like in baseball, you know, the difference between a second baseman and a third baseman," said Millen, when asked to describe the differences between X and Z. "You know, they're both infielders, but their job duties are much different, and so it goes with wide receiver.
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TheMaulClaw Mentor

TheMaulClaw

Posted
Posted

This isn't necessarily true. The WR position is broken down into subpositions, just like the DT position. You have your X receivers, your Z receivers, and your slot receivers. All of those guys do vastly different things. In fact, there's a really good break down by a former college and NFL QB that can be found at http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?more_page=1&podcast=ian_furness&selected_podcast=MILLENCAST_7_16_12_1342469492_1569.mp3 . Millen (the former QB) compares the X and Y receivers to 2nd and 3rd basemen. 

 

He says, and I quote,

 

I'm aware of the different sub positions.  However Tampa doesn't run that different of a defensive scheme then we do.  Star and McCoy line up in the same spots.  When Star comes out of the game KK takes on Star's responsibility and lines up in the same spot as Star.  Even though KK might be a more adequate physical comparison to McCoy....their responsibilities are the same ultimately.

 

 

Not only that you're using receivers to justify your logic at the DT position.  Why don't you use the DT position to justify your logic at the DT position.

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shabazz Newbie

shabazz

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Posted

I'm aware of the different sub positions.  However Tampa doesn't run that different of a defensive scheme then we do.  Star and McCoy line up in the same spots.  When Star comes out of the game KK takes on Star's responsibility and lines up in the same spot as Star.  Even though KK might be a more adequate physical comparison to McCoy....their responsibilities are the same ultimately.

 

 

Not only that you're using receivers to justify your logic at the DT position.  Why don't you use the DT position to justify your logic at the DT position.

 

No you aren't. Also you seem to get confused between LDT vs RDT and NT vs UT. Hey look! McCoy is playing in the same spot (probably LDT) as Star, means they share the same responsibilities!!!11! I am glad a fellow Panthers fan has picked up on your lack of understanding of the game as well. May be you better just stick to smack talk.

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TheMaulClaw Mentor

TheMaulClaw

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Posted

No you aren't. Also you seem to get confused between LDT vs RDT and NT vs UT. Hey look! McCoy is playing in the same spot (probably LDT) as Star, means they share the same responsibilities!!!11! I am glad a fellow Panthers fan has picked up on your lack of understanding of the game as well. May be you better just stick to smack talk.

 

Most Panther fans on here wouldn't trade Star for McCoy other then Ruff (and even he might not, he's probably just debating because it's fun).  If it bothers you I'd rather have Star then McCoy anchoring our Dline then good.  Maybe you should stick to smack talk.

 

Why don't you look at some film on Star and tell me if he constantly plays a 0 tech. 

 

Want to know why I think your defense is inferior to ours.....here's why....

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331024027

 

I went to that game.....and we could have put 40+ on your boys.  You're lucky we just ran out the clock in the 4th quarter.

 

Personally I think you're still mad about us crushing Chris Simms spleen and the extra point block/overtime loss your boys took back in 03....but that's just the impression I get.

 

Scoreboard.

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red rum Newbie

red rum

Posted
Posted

It doesn't matter though. Star manhandled a Pro Bowl caliber center in his debut and was instrumental in our defensive line being so dominate in 2013. Lotululei straight up played like a veteran in his rookie campaign.

 

Ok, we'll compare notes on the two of them after the game...  ;) 

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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa Newbie

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa

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Posted

McCoy had 9.5 sacks from the DT spot.....on a team that sucked playing from behind with no talent around him on the line.

That is absurd

Can't compare him to a 3-4 NT like Wilfork....neither could do the others job S well. McCoy is the best 43 DT

Plus, the Man was double and tripled much of the time, with no one else to take the double and triples off of him.

Schiano was a terrible coach, scheme wise.

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