why all the flip flopping on john fox?

[Kettle]

i've never decided one way or another. i trust jerry richardson to do what is best for the organization. fox did mess up by sticking with jake so long though. it's one of those mistakes that can completely negate any and every good thing that he did this season.

[jpniner]

The Defense's body of work was that of a Top 10 Defense, not a "Top 10" for only 4 games but for the entire body of work.

How many points got counted against the Defense as a result of a Jake INT? didn't have that problem the last month of season

[panthers55]

but didnt those same people know that he had one year on his contract when they were asking for him to be fired? what did they see in these last 4 games that made them change their minds?

We won four out of the last 5. Duh??? You don't think that being 4-7 and Jake starting wasn't a huge reason people wanted Fox gone. You don't think that with Moore in there and winning several games by blowouts doesn't change people's perceptions about our future with Fox.

Seriously?

PS. No there probably were folks who didn't know Fox's contract expires next year. Don't expect them to admit it though.

[carolinanimal]

Answer: Jake Delhomme and Fox's love affair with him.

Its really amazing when you think about it:

One of Toughest Schedules in NFL

Top 10 Defense, Top Rushing attack, Steve Smith but we had the worst QB in the NFL, which was obvious early on and Fox refused to bench him, even when he was calling plays around Jake to limit his INT's.

So with the worst QB in the NFL, and one of hardest Schedules in the NFC we still manage to go 8-8 based on all the other talent we had.

Next season is a layup for Fox if he comes back and gets average QB play.

that to me is the most frustrating part. why wait till after were are out of any type of contention to make a change? i guarantee you that if delhomme didnt injure his finger he would still be starting, which makes me question next year if matt moore will even be given a shot at the starting qb position.

many people say that john fox is not stupid and he will let matt moore start next year. while he may not be stupid he is extremely stubborn and loyal. do people think that the guy who gave jake delhomme an extension, after one of the worst qb perfomances in playoff history and kept jake in to the DETRIMENT of the team , even though he may have been the worst starting qb in the first 8-10 weeks, is all of a sudden just change his ways? fox is conservative to a fault. if he is going to go out, he will go out with what he knows and trust. He still trusts jake delhomme.

[PuntJake]

ok. this is not a fire fox thread, (even though it will probably turn into that). my question as pointed out by the thread title asks why are people changing their viewpoint NOW after people adamant about firing fox.

accepting what is the most probable outcome doesn't mean changing your viewpoint on what you wish would happen.

i wish fox would be fired. but he won't. i wish jake would be dropped. but he won't.

[panthers55]

that to me is the most frustrating part. why wait till after were are out of any type of contention to make a change? i guarantee you that if delhomme didnt injure his finger he would still be starting, which makes me question next year if matt moore will even be given a shot at the starting qb position.

many people say that john fox is not stupid and he will let matt moore start next year. while he may not be stupid he is extremely stubborn and loyal. do people think that the guy who gave jake delhomme an extension, after one of the worst qb perfomances in playoff history and kept jake in to the DETRIMENT of the team , even though he may have been the worst starting qb in the first 8-10 weeks, is all of a sudden just change his ways? fox is conservative to a fault. if he is going to go out, he will go out with what he knows and trust. He still trusts jake delhomme.

Welcome to November!!!! Tell me something new instead of rehashing the same crap as 100 other threads.

[err456]

Welcome to November!!!! Tell me something new instead of rehashing the same crap as 100 other threads.

I want to hear something new and true. Rumors are getting old..

[carolinanimal]

Our defense wasn't top 10 until late in the season. Plus even with our rushing attack and and Smith we were 21st in points scored, 19th in yards, and 27th in passing yards. Deion Sanders is an idiot and what does that say about anyone who quotes him??

for some reason you always come of as a jerk when you respond to people. like you are the ultimate source of knowledge on all things football. if doing that on a message board makes you feel better then more power to ya!

So deion sanders is an idiot when it comes to football? what was idiotic about his statement? it is a valid question. how does a team that was 12-4 a year ago go 8-8 with almost the same staff? is that a better question for you?

[Guild]

So deion sanders is an idiot when it comes to football?

No he is an idiot when it comes to anything that isn't PLAYING football.

[carolinanimal]

Welcome to November!!!! Tell me something new instead of rehashing the same crap as 100 other threads.

why are you still responding to this thread? obviously you have nothing to input, so you must be here just to argue.

my thread wasnt about why john fox should be fired, or even if he should. all i asked (and where you went of on a tangent) is why have people changed their minds on firing him. was it the last 4 games? if so why? what did he show in those last 4 games that was different from the first 12? are thier other reasons? do they think it will carry on into next year?

i thought this was a message board.

[carolinanimal]

No he is an idiot when it comes to anything that isn't PLAYING football.

just askin. do you think his statement has any validity or was it a stupid statment?

[Guild]

just askin. do you think his statement has any validity or was it a stupid statment?

Well his statement leads one to realize how poor JD played, and since he doesn't like JD I am certain that was his intention. So this particular statement does highlight a point and is valid. That doesn't mean he isn't a bit of an idiot.

[Jangler]

Simple. Moore saved his job and showed that this is a good team with a good coach. If he would just stop being so stubborn and admit that the Jake deal and sticking with him for so long was a mistake. Change is hard for some people. I was talked off the ledge about Fox a few seasons ago, and until he proves to me, (like I matter) he can't coach or had lost the team, I really believe he should get a new contract after next season...only if he wins the Superbowl. Not just get there, but win it. If he cant do that with this team and Matt Moore, and an easier schedule (if there is such a thing) then he needs to go after the 2010 season.

[blackcatgrowl]

I've noticed a change in attitude among several Panthers fans I know too, not just on this board.

Moore comes in and gives us more than respectable QB play, puts us in a position to not just win, but convincingly win, against playoff contenders and all the sudden there is a shift towards giving Fox the benefit of the doubt.

All the while, this attitude casually ignores the fact that it was Fox who said on Oct 28, 2009 "I believe (Jake Delhomme) gives us the best chance to win". Well, this is obviously not true, as we went on to lose the next three of five games that Delhomme started in, and put us out of reach for even a wildcard spot.

In those five games Jake threw 4 TDs and FIVE interceptions. In the losses, it was 1TD 5 INT. Fox's formula for winning is primarily a running game, with consistent QB play. Jake's performance is NOT giving us a good chance to win in that system.

Now... look at Matt Moore for the next five games... 8 TDs - 1INT, and that one INT was his debut as the starter, arguably shaking off rust. THAT'S a good chance to win.

If Moore, who is a backup, can come out and play lights out like that, what could this team do with a Drew Brees, or a Tom Brady, or hell even Carson Palmer? Domination...

I defended Jake Delhomme for years. He did some good things for the Panthers. But there comes a time to move on. I can see it. Everyone I know that has some sense can see it. If Fox can't see it, then HE needs to go.