Clausen Fans?

[Jpjr]

For a guy that has completely kept his head down the entire camp and said all of a few sentences to reporters, he is quickly becoming one of the most polarizing players in Panthers history. Tonight will add fuel to the fire whether he good, bad, or anything in between.

[Mr. Scot]

i'd say the peyton manning route worked fairly well. it's all in who you pick to make your example of.

how do you know rogers wouldn't have been as good if he started right away? the had favre, that's why he didn't start right away. we don't have a first ballot hall of famer to sit clausen behind.

would manning have been even better if he had sat for 4 years or did that 4 years of experience on the field help make him as good as he is today?

The Peyton Manning route works great...if you're Peyton Manning.

(not somebody I'd use as an example or a measuring stick)

Are there guys who can come in and start from day one? A few. They're relatively rare, though. And generally speaking, for every Peyton Manning, there's a Heath Shuler, a Tim Couch and an Akili Smith.

The teams that start rookies tend to be bad teams who wound up with a high draft pick because of a prior year's suckage. As often as not, they don't have anyone else that's any good, so it falls on the rookie.

It's not the way you want to go, unless you have no other choice.

[RoachKiller]

The Peyton Manning route works great...if you're Peyton Manning.

(not somebody I'd use as an example or a measuring stick)

Are there guys who can come in and start from day one? A few. They're relatively rare, though. And generally speaking, for every Peyton Manning, there's a Heath Shuler, a Tim Couch and an Akili Smith.

The teams that start rookies tend to be bad teams who wound up with a high draft pick because of a prior year's suckage. As often as not, they don't have anyone else that's any good, so it falls on the rookie.

It's not the way you want to go, unless you have no other choice.

Both of you guys are somewhat right. It is about who the QB is and starting a rookie QB statistically has lead to failure for the team and the QB. Couch, Shuler and Smith played on crappy teams also. The Panthers are far more talented than any of those teams. It depends on who the QB is and what kind of team he is on. Clausen is also more talented passer than Shuler, Couch and Smith could ever dream of.

[panthers55]

I was going to respond to this by quoting my original post, but it obviously didn't sink in. So to rephrase, there have been *plenty* of examples of rookies starting in the NFL and both them and their teams being more successful as a result. You simply can't tell me that the Lions would have won more games last year with Culpepper (a highly experienced veteran) starting. They tried that and they still sucked. Ryan and Sanchez are other examples. Also, the argument that "folks who think that game experience is all that matters never played a sport at a significant level" is also fairly disconnected from reality. Once again, Matthew Stafford will be 10x the quarterback this year because he wasn't holding a clipboard last year. My "significant" experience was limited to a few state titles in high school football, but I guess I learned enough to know that live experience is far and away the best preparation a player can get. You can have Hunter Cantwell, I'll take Mark Sanchez any day of the week.

As far as Moore goes, this notion that this team's success is completely on his shoulders is sounding more ridiculous every day. You were probably one of those people that was shocked when the Panthers drafted a quarterback with their first pick in the draft.

Like I said earlier you say the same thing over and over and it doesn't get any better because you say it again. If a rookie comes in over a veteran and only the rookie plays, you can't possibly know who is going to play better you can only speculate since only one guy actually played. So you can quit that stupid argument.

In picking Ryan And Sanchez you are picking situations which are not analogous to ours in any way. Sanchez and Ryan were picked high in the first round and were the highest paid players on the team. Neither team had a veteran quarterback who had a winning record as a starter. The rookies started because the team had little choice and few other options, and expectations were very low. That is not even close to our situation so again stop bringing up that stupid apples to oranges argument.

And you totally distorted my argument about game experience. I didn't say that game experience isn't important. I said it isn't where you learn to play the game. Otherwise teams would just come out and play games every week and not practice. Sanchez will be better this year because he has been in the system longer, has 2 training camps etc under his belt and more time practicing. And it is hard to believe you could have played in high school and not learned the basics of practice and playing. That is taught in pee wee ball.

Another stupid argument.

And finally who is saying everything is on Moore's shoulders. He has a great running game, and a solid O line. We will see about the wide receivers and the defense over the next few weeks. As for me I was very happy they picked up Clausen and Pike and even more so when they picked up as many receivers as they did for the quarterbacks to throw to. Another stupid argument.

Any other stupid arguments you care to say over and over?

[panthers55]

Both of you guys are somewhat right. It is about who the QB is and starting a rookie QB statistically has lead to failure for the team and the QB. Couch, Shuler and Smith played on crappy teams also. The Panthers are far more talented than any of those teams. It depends on who the QB is and what kind of team he is on. Clausen is also more talented passer than Shuler, Couch and Smith could ever dream of.

Agree that the success of a quarterback is determined by their situation, own desire and ability etcetera. But you can't say that Clausen is a more talented passer than guys like Shuler or Couch. Lets see what he actually does before annointing him that talented. We all have high hopes for him but right now he is just another guy who wants to play in the NFL. He has done things the right way from what I can see, but who knows until he actually shows something.

[Jpjr]

Like I said earlier you say the same thing over and over and it doesn't get any better because you say it again. If a rookie comes in over a veteran and only the rookie plays, you can't possibly know who is going to play better you can only speculate since only one guy actually played. So you can quit that stupid argument.

In picking Ryan And Sanchez you are picking situations which are not analogous to ours in any way. Sanchez and Ryan were picked high in the first round and were the highest paid players on the team. Neither team had a veteran quarterback who had a winning record as a starter. The rookies started because the team had little choice and few other options, and expectations were very low. That is not even close to our situation so again stop bringing up that stupid apples to oranges argument.

And you totally distorted my argument about game experience. I didn't say that game experience isn't important. I said it isn't where you learn to play the game. Otherwise teams would just come out and play games every week and not practice. Sanchez will be better this year because he has been in the system longer, has 2 training camps etc under his belt and more time practicing. And it is hard to believe you could have played in high school and not learned the basics of practice and playing. That is taught in pee wee ball.

Another stupid argument.

And finally who is saying everything is on Moore's shoulders. He has a great running game, and a solid O line. We will see about the wide receivers and the defense over the next few weeks. As for me I was very happy they picked up Clausen and Pike and even more so when they picked up as many receivers as they did for the quarterbacks to throw to. Another stupid argument.

Any other stupid arguments you care to say over and over?

I strongly encourage you to re-read my posts, more than once, and try and learn something. Your getting in your own way to try and win an argument. You can call my words "stupid" if that makes you feel good but I'm not arguing with you. Just trying to teach you something. Think of it like going to school.