idea on what to do with pep

[unicar15]

The only player in the league right now that I would trade Pep for straight up (other than Manning, Brady, and other ridiculous absurdities) would be Nmamdi Asomugha. He is as much a freak at Corner as Pep is at DE and he would make our defense better than last year even if we didn't have an elite pass rush I really believe that...

[mmmbeans]

The only player in the league right now that I would trade Pep for straight up (other than Manning, Brady, and other ridiculous absurdities) would be Nmamdi Asomugha. He is as much a freak at Corner as Pep is at DE and he would make our defense better than last year even if we didn't have an elite pass rush I really believe that...

maybe ed reed.

[RiP_Fred Lane]

The only player in the league right now that I would trade Pep for straight up (other than Manning, Brady, and other ridiculous absurdities) would be Nmamdi Asomugha. He is as much a freak at Corner as Pep is at DE and he would make our defense better than last year even if we didn't have an elite pass rush I really believe that...

but none of that is going to happen. why would any team trade anybody on that level when they know he will be hitting the free agent market it not this year the next. that is why i believe that in order to get anything for pep we need to trade for cassel, or even the browns first rounder and either winslow or anderson because the browns are gonnna get rid of both of them. is pep better than all these players yes no doubt, but the position he has put us in someone is gonna get him in a bargin because he has left us with nowhere to go.

[Urrymonster]

so i take it you wouldnt watn brady because he is a product of belecheats system 2? i dont understand what you guys are talking about "system" qbs in the first place. this is the freaking nfl it's a copy cat league everybody runs the same damn plays. im sorry that you think cassel is a system qb because he is well coached. and i freaking hate belecheat so please stop making me defend him.

System Qbs are QBs that benefit greatly from never being asked to do something they can't. Like it has been pointed out a huge amount of his passing yards came after the catch. The Panthers mode of attack in the passing game are deep strikes - hence why Delhomme has a below average completion record. He is simply a terrible fit for our philosophy and unless we change the way we pass the ball, would be a huge bust. Not all QBs can do the same things, we probably would not get an upgrade over Delhomme and would have lost a huge bargaining chip is Peppers. It just does not work!

Not all teams have franchise QBs. In my mind there are a handful of QBs who are franchise QBs. Peyton, Big Ben (somewhat), Brees, Rivers & McNabb. Rodgers and Cutler can join that list IF they can continue to improve. ALL of those QBs have passing games tailored to them. We are a power running team, we simply do not need to revolutionise our offense. We need a game manager and someone who can be depended on when they sell out to stop the run.

All these teams that you claim go out there way to get franchise QBs usually get bit in the ass because the QBs simply are not ready. Leinart, Young, Russell, Jackson, JP Losman, Anderson, Ramsey, Carr, Harrington etc etc etc

They were all given huge contracts or made 1st round draft choices because they were supposed to be franchise quarterbacks. Matt Ryan is the only one recently who has become the feature for their team.

So no. I do not want Matt Cassell who played in a philosophy that benefitted him greatly. Some crazy GM will try to pick him up and put him in a deep strikingpassing game and get fired in three years because of it. Fact is there are precious few QBs who are BETTER than Delhomme in this league and those are the franchise guys. The rest are all at the same level but playing in systems that better utilize their skill sets.

[Urrymonster]

but none of that is going to happen. why would any team trade anybody on that level when they know he will be hitting the free agent market it not this year the next. that is why i believe that in order to get anything for pep we need to trade for cassel, or even the browns first rounder and either winslow or anderson because the browns are gonnna get rid of both of them. is pep better than all these players yes no doubt, but the position he has put us in someone is gonna get him in a bargin because he has left us with nowhere to go.

You could say the same thing about Cassel?!

Face it. Peppers has a ton more market value than Matt Cassel.

The guy has one years experience and di not start for 3 or 4 years prior to that. Did he not even start in school? The NE coaches played to his strengths and did not ask him to do things he could not do.

Peppers has not put us in a terrible position in regards to his value, pundits are saying that because that's what many GMs want you to think. fact is there will be a host of teams vying for his signature. All we need to do is lock up Gross to allow us free use of the franchise tag.

[RiP_Fred Lane]

System Qbs are QBs that benefit greatly from never being asked to do something they can't. Like it has been pointed out a huge amount of his passing yards came after the catch. The Panthers mode of attack in the passing game are deep strikes - hence why Delhomme has a below average completion record. He is simply a terrible fit for our philosophy and unless we change the way we pass the ball, would be a huge bust. Not all QBs can do the same things, we probably would not get an upgrade over Delhomme and would have lost a huge bargaining chip is Peppers. It just does not work!

Not all teams have franchise QBs. In my mind there are a handful of QBs who are franchise QBs. Peyton, Big Ben (somewhat), Brees, Rivers & McNabb. Rodgers and Cutler can join that list IF they can continue to improve. ALL of those QBs have passing games tailored to them. We are a power running team, we simply do not need to revolutionise our offense. We need a game manager and someone who can be depended on when they sell out to stop the run.

All these teams that you claim go out there way to get franchise QBs usually get bit in the ass because the QBs simply are not ready. Leinart, Young, Russell, Jackson, JP Losman, Anderson, Ramsey, Carr, Harrington etc etc etc

They were all given huge contracts or made 1st round draft choices because they were supposed to be franchise quarterbacks. Matt Ryan is the only one recently who has become the feature for their team.

So no. I do not want Matt Cassell who played in a philosophy that benefitted him greatly. Some crazy GM will try to pick him up and put him in a deep strikingpassing game and get fired in three years because of it. Fact is there are precious few QBs who are BETTER than Delhomme in this league and those are the franchise guys. The rest are all at the same level but playing in systems that better utilize their skill sets.

there are precious few qbs that are better than delhomme, your really gonna say that? and i agree that alot of times teams draft qbs high it doesnt work out for various reasons. but you have to admit when you look at the elite teams that are good year in and year out (steelers, pats, coltes) all have franchise qbs. and dont tell me delhomme is a game manager, managers of the game dont turn the ball over 6 times in one game. he's a gun slinger he's always been a gun slinger which is why he's one us some games and lost us some. but the bottom line is he is INCONSISTENT.

[Urrymonster]

there are precious few qbs that are better than delhomme, your really gonna say that? and i agree that alot of times teams draft qbs high it doesnt work out for various reasons. but you have to admit when you look at the elite teams that are good year in and year out (steelers, pats, coltes) all have franchise qbs. and dont tell me delhomme is a game manager, managers of the game dont turn the ball over 6 times in one game. he's a gun slinger he's always been a gun slinger which is why he's one us some games and lost us some. but the bottom line is he is INCONSISTENT.

Never said he was a game manager. I said that is all WE need.

Yes Jake Delhomme is a better QB than people give him credit. There are probably 10 or so guys who are better than him, maybe a couple more, maybe a couple less. The rest of them are exactly like him. They are either great leaders with poor mechanics or technically sound QBs with the leadership skills of a scared infant.

You mention the most consistent teams. How did those guys get their franchise QBs? Manning was a first overall pick, Big Ben was picked fairly early and we had no shot at him, McNabb was third overall (I think), Rivers and Manning again very early picks. Only guys we have had shots at recently have been Brady Quinn and potentially Leinart, both of which have not panned out.

Fact is you need a darn early pick to get that franchise QB, something we have not had in a good few years. Alternatively these consistent teams HAVE had poor years to allow them to get these franchise QBs. Then ask the 49ers, Oakland, Detroit, Texans, Tennesse and the Cardinals how the recent early QB picks have gone.

The literal only exception has been Brees. He was only released because he buggered up his shoulder pretty bad and the Chargers had Rivers waiting in the wings. NO took a chance on a guy no one else dared to and it has turned out pretty well for them.

EDIT

Those who think Peppers market value is hurt should reconsider. Charles Chandler's new article mentions that a former NFL pro personnel director has likened Peppers to being the closest thing the lague has not to a Reggie White.

Me thinks the guy will create a bit of a bargaining battle regardless of who can afford him. If some are thinking this then there are others like him and a ton of GMs will be salivating at the thought that they have a legitimate shot at getting him. They will just try and make it sound like his value is hurt, because they will do anything to lower his cost.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/488180.html

[RiP_Fred Lane]

Never said he was a game manager. I said that is all WE need.

Yes Jake Delhomme is a better QB than people give him credit. There are probably 10 or so guys who are better than him, maybe a couple more, maybe a couple less. The rest of them are exactly like him. They are either great leaders with poor mechanics or technically sound QBs with the leadership skills of a scared infant.

You mention the most consistent teams. How did those guys get their franchise QBs? Manning was a first overall pick, Big Ben was picked fairly early and we had no shot at him, McNabb was third overall (I think), Rivers and Manning again very early picks. Only guys we have had shots at recently have been Brady Quinn and potentially Leinart, both of which have not panned out.

Fact is you need a darn early pick to get that franchise QB, something we have not had in a good few years. Alternatively these consistent teams HAVE had poor years to allow them to get these franchise QBs. Then ask the 49ers, Oakland, Detroit, Texans, Tennesse and the Cardinals how the recent early QB picks have gone.

The literal only exception has been Brees. He was only released because he buggered up his shoulder pretty bad and the Chargers had Rivers waiting in the wings. NO took a chance on a guy no one else dared to and it has turned out pretty well for them.

i understand all that and agree with it, i just feel that this cards game is one of those games you cant get over. i like jake always have, i just feel like we've hit the wall with him. i fully believe we are talented enough next year to have the same kind of season we had this year maybe not as good record wise but a productive season with a trip to the playoffs. im not saying to get rid of jake, i just think it would be a good decision to bring in some qb talent and have a open competition during camp. we differ in the opinion of cassel and anderson, i think cassel is going to be a very good qb but like you said it's all about situations, if he goes to detroit he will suck like everyone else there. pep for the browns 1st rounder and anderson i think would be a good trade, re work delhommes contract cause he doesnt deserve the money he is getting and let them have a open comp at camp. if delhomme wins so be it.

[Udogg]

Other than Peyton/Brady there are no consistent QB's. Maybe drew brees/rivers, but thats about it. Kurt Warner stunk it up a few games this year, Rothlesburger looked horrible for a games, Matt Ryan's did(i know hes a rookie). I mean look at it. Eli? Garcia? Tavaris Jackson? Favre? Shaub? Romo? I am not overly trying to defend jake because that last game was horrible and someone on the coaching staff should have stopped it. But saying Matt Cassell is the answer is like saying Jake was the answer after the 2004. Their numbers are about the same. So would you trade Julius Peppers for Jake Delhomme straight up?

[RiP_Fred Lane]

Other than Peyton/Brady there are no consistent QB's. Maybe drew brees/rivers, but thats about it. Kurt Warner stunk it up a few games this year, Rothlesburger looked horrible for a games, Matt Ryan's did(i know hes a rookie). I mean look at it. Eli? Garcia? Tavaris Jackson? Favre? Shaub? Romo? I am not overly trying to defend jake because that last game was horrible and someone on the coaching staff should have stopped it. But saying Matt Cassell is the answer is like saying Jake was the answer after the 2004. Their numbers are about the same. So would you trade Julius Peppers for Jake Delhomme straight up?

jake delhomme was the answer for us after the 05 season. he took us to the super bowl and played very well. but i dont care what the player say, i dont see any way they can watch 1 person go out and lose the biggest game of the year by himself and still have faith in him. im not saying that cassel is the answer, im just saying he might be. i dont like this draft i dont think their are any franchise qbs in it, and the only real elite player in it is the tackle from bama. i think the corner got exposed in the rose bowl to be what most guys from ohio state are not as good as advertised. other than that what do we need? the dt form boston college? no matter what we do were gonna get screwed because of peppers saying he wasnt coming back. i just would like to keep the screwing to a minimum.

[Urrymonster]

jake delhomme was the answer for us after the 05 season. he took us to the super bowl and played very well. but i dont care what the player say, i dont see any way they can watch 1 person go out and lose the biggest game of the year by himself and still have faith in him. im not saying that cassel is the answer, im just saying he might be. i dont like this draft i dont think their are any franchise qbs in it, and the only real elite player in it is the tackle from bama. i think the corner got exposed in the rose bowl to be what most guys from ohio state are not as good as advertised. other than that what do we need? the dt form boston college? no matter what we do were gonna get screwed because of peppers saying he wasnt coming back. i just would like to keep the screwing to a minimum.

You need to let go of that anger regarding the playoff game.

Eli had two interceptions and completed approx. 50% of his passes

Pennington had four interceptions and a fumble lost

Flacco had a three interception just over a third of his passes performance

McNabb had 4 interceptions in the playoffs

Jackson only completed 42.9% of his passes

The playoffs often pull out crazy things because players try too hard to amend for mistakes and going behind. Fact is Jake had 2-3 real bad game this season and the rest of the time he was actually pretty decent. You just need to realize that QBs do occasionally have meltdowns, it is because they are relied on to win the game if the gameplans do not work.

[Udogg]

Heelzfan

Peppers counted 14 mill against the cap this year. 17 mill is just 3 million more. If we renogotiate Jakes contract, cut/restructure lucas/hackett/etc... for at least 3 million saved Pep is not going anywhere this year until we get a decent deal. The front office isn't going to give him away for a bag of chips and salsa. If he wants to hold out and let that magic 30 year old number comes around it hurts him also. I repeat.. it makes it harder on us, but we will get a deal done that benefits us, Maybe franchising and waiting till next years draft will show better promise. Maybe someone offers a first and 3rd we can parlay into a later first and 2nd pick. Don't panic.

[Blue Miz]

Matt Cassel has done nothing to prove that he is a "franchise" quarterback. He played well, but so did Derek Anderson in 2007. Would you trade Peppers straight up for Derek Anderson?

Also, Cassel played well in a system he's been trained in for years. There's no way of knowing how well he'd perform on another team.

If Cassel fell in our laps as a backup, I'd be willing to start him in the preseason and see what he can do. But I wouldn't trade for him. Especially not a highly coveted player like Peppers. We can get a lot for him!

[Blue Miz]

you need to let go of that anger regarding the playoff game.

Eli had two interceptions and completed approx. 50% of his passes

pennington had four interceptions and a fumble lost

flacco had a three interception just over a third of his passes performance

mcnabb had 4 interceptions in the playoffs

jackson only completed 42.9% of his passes

the playoffs often pull out crazy things because players try too hard to amend for mistakes and going behind. Fact is jake had 2-3 real bad game this season and the rest of the time he was actually pretty decent. You just need to realize that qbs do occasionally have meltdowns, it is because they are relied on to win the game if the gameplans do not work.

qft