Mayock on Gabbert

[MHS831]

You know what is funny about this stat?? People coming from a true "pro style offense" actually fail at a higher rate than the QB's not coming from pro style offenses. I don't know why but it is true.

I think it is because people assume that since they ran a pro offense in college it will easily translate to the pros, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Then tell me REASONS you feel good about Cam Newton --Don't forget, we are talking about the #1 pick and a position that would set the team back years if you are wrong--in these areas that are historically key indicators for QB success:

Football IQ: (when has he displayed it, where did he learn it? How long do you think it takes to learn to read an NFL defense well enough to perform at a high level? Oh, and lets not forget that he, after one year in a simple offense, thinks he is READY for the NFL.)

Character: (When has he ever displayed good character? Even in the championship game, a game in which he struggled at times, he tried to score when the coach told him to take a knee, he was upset AFTER the game--selfish self-promotion?

Work Ethic: (remember, he thinks he is an icon)

Opinions of NFL experts: (not reporters--people who know how to evaluate talent because they have experience doing so.) Without looking, I will estimate that for every 1 you find that say the Panthers should take Newton, you will find 3-5 who say the risk is too big)

[monstercat]

Are you serious? Luck has flawless character, extreme intelligence, and a skill set superior in nearly every way to Newton. The DEGREE OF RISK is my argument. I would say Luck has about a 90% chance of success in the NFL, Newton has a 30% chance, and Yates a 5% chance. Did I ever say guarantee, or was that your word?

How do you know that Luck has flawless character? Nobody has been digging in to his past yet, and I don't agree at all that his skill set is so superior. He was throwing to wide open WR's and TE's just like Newton was, and I've seen hm make some boneheaded panic throws when he's under pressure...I have never seen Newton make a panic throw.

[MHS831]

And I would be careful to make these comments without not knowing the facts of each of these situations. You know what has been reported, but what is reported often times is disconnected with reality.

This stuff has a lot a media types passing judgments on this kid despite what has been proven or what may have actually happened.

All I can say is that the people who actually know this kid, love him. The people who have raised questions about him and his father has consistently come from people who either have very limited or no access to him. Not just coaches and teammates, but SID's, and teachers have been talking great about him (especially the ones form Blinn and Auburn). I think that should factor into any judgments on his character as well.

If he is a bad teammate why did they carry him off the field on their shoulders??

Aren't your opinions based on the same pipelines of info that mine are?

Did I say he was a bad teammate? I agree that there are good qualities at play here. He is a phenomenal athlete and anyone who makes it this far has positives in his life. Just not ready to put all of my blue, black, and silver chips on his square at the roulette table.

[MHS831]

Maybe it's bc we hold QB's to a higher regard but don't you think Steve smith has made dumb decisions throughout his career, or Big Ben, or Terrell owens, or Chad Johnson, but still these guys are good football players. When did this become even remotely important in terms of ability to play football?

Listen, I'm not endorsing cam newton but I think it should come down to his workout and how he handles himself in an interview. That's all that you can go off...if you wanna talk about college you have to include the fact that he has won at every level...you have to look at his TD to interception ratio...you have to look at his leadership and intangibles...those are the qualities I care about. Not whether or not he did something stupid in college. Hell there were people who want mike Vick and What he did is nothing compared to newton. A strong arm, TDs, and wins cures all stupid decisions.

Kerry Collins didn't have issues coming out of college and he quit on the team. It's not an exact science guys.

First paragraph: I think Cowher put it nicely when he said something to the effect: When the player's baggage outweighs his performance, it is time to go. TO and Chad are great examples of turds who have been toxic on their teams. TO has talent but has been passed around the league more than a drunk hooker prom date. Chad is an amazing talent that has broken his team apart. WRs are not central players. Give these attributes to a QB--find a successful one.

Second paragraph: I agree. I did not want Vick for similar reasons. With Cam and Vick, there is heavy smoke. The difference? Cam is smoldering, pre-fire smoke, and Vick has post-catastrophy smoke-the smoke that remains after the fire is out.

Third Paragraph: If we had known that KC did not want to play here, that he may have been a racist, and there was a potential drinking problem, we probably would not have taken him. In addition, he was our first pick. I am sure we learned from the Kerry Collins and Rae Carruth picks--and their pre-draft red flags were not as obvious as Cam's. Not condemning him--I get excited thinking about his talent here, but when risk is added, I say, NO WAY.

[DaCityKats]

when pressure is in his face he loses his composure, so that cant be coached up. he also locks on to his wr, has bad foot work which could be coached up. how is he better than newton because of character issues?

[firstdayfan]

I just don't get why his off the field problems are what bothers you about his guy...if he had no issues would you feel better about picking him?

In a perfect world we would select petersen or green bc they are the best players available. But we live in a world where franchise QB's aren't readily available and we may never be in this situation again. You have to take a chance at some point and cam has an extemely high ceiling. Is it worth the risk to potentially get the next great QB???

If he fails then we would be right where we are now...petersen and green won't turn this franchise around...but cam could.

[MHS831]

How do you know that Luck has flawless character? Nobody has been digging in to his past yet, and I don't agree at all that his skill set is so superior. He was throwing to wide open WR's and TE's just like Newton was, and I've seen hm make some boneheaded panic throws when he's under pressure...I have never seen Newton make a panic throw.

His character is not flawed. If someone digs something up, then it becomes flawed. That is what flawless means. Not flawed.

His arm is more accurate, his supporting talent was inferior, and he is faster, smarter, and more educated. He is humble and comes from a home where education is revered more than payment. He has had his character examined (contrary to your opinion) and he has been given the highest endorsements from everyone who has known him.

Are you really pitting a computer-stealing, cheating, one-year wonder from a Jr. High offense who calls himself an icon against Andrew Luck? Really?

[MHS831]

I just don't get why his off the field problems are what bothers you about his guy...if he had no issues would you feel better about picking him?

.

Yes, I would feel a lot better about him. I teach college students and I can tell you that character is a huge indicator of success.

I love Cam Newton from the neck down. He is a stud with all the tools. However, the 5 inches between those Shrek ears is problematic and will be to whomever takes him.

[MHS831]

when pressure is in his face he loses his composure, so that cant be coached up. he also locks on to his wr, has bad foot work which could be coached up. how is he better than newton because of character issues?

Who? Luck?

Have you ever followed a leader with poor character? Where did you end up?

[DaCityKats]

His character is not flawed. If someone digs something up, then it becomes flawed. That is what flawless means. Not flawed.

His arm is more accurate, his supporting talent was inferior, and he is faster, smarter, and more educated. He is humble and comes from a home where education is revered more than payment. He has had his character examined (contrary to your opinion) and he has been given the highest endorsements from everyone who has known him.

Are you really pitting a computer-stealing, cheating, one-year wonder from a Jr. High offense who calls himself an icon against Andrew Luck? Really?

i liked luck as well, but hating on another guy like your last paragraph is just retarded. people come from different backgrounds and situations so talking down on someones house bringing is sad. everybody is not lucky to be born with a silver spoon in there mouth.

plus he won a nc against that team that beat lucks.

[DaCityKats]

Who? Luck?

Have you ever followed a leader with poor character? Where did you end up?

no gabbert, and i dont follow anybody.and just because you follow somebody doesnt mean you have do everything that person does.

[mav1234]

when pressure is in his face he loses his composure, so that cant be coached up

This is not true. There have been plenty of plays the last two seasons where Gabbert has escaped pressure, made a guy miss, kept his eyes down field and found a receiver for a big gain. The thing is, he has poor footwork in the pocket and sometimes has trouble feeling pressure - especially edge pressure. This is not really unusual for a college QB.

The thing is, his pocket awareness needs to improve, and that CAN be coached and learned. It just requires a staff capable of teaching.

Someone earlier said something about how of course Cam didn't do as much because he was only in his offense for a year... that's kind of exactly the point. It's not that he necessarily can't do the mental things, it's that nobody has seen him do them much because of lack of film and the type of offense he ran.

Edit: I do think Gabbert is the best QB in the draft but I do not think he is worth taking #1 overall, and I really like him. =P If we did though I'd be happy and hope that our new coaches can bring a QB along.

[firstdayfan]

Yes, I would feel a lot better about him. I teach college students and I can tell you that character is a huge indicator of success.

I love Cam Newton from the neck down. He is a stud with all the tools. However, the 5 inches between those Shrek ears is problematic and will be to whomever takes him.

Let me ask this...would you trust hurney an Rivera to make a judgment on his character after actually meeting him. If he is as flawed as you suggest I'm sure he will not be the pick. But if they determine that his character is not a concern then it's a no brainer. Would you accept their decision?

[MHS831]

Folks, on paper and at combines, he looks great. I hope the interviews go well and he is as great as you all think he is. However, at this time, all we have is physical superiority at a position that features intelligence and character as key indicators of success. TOO EARLY to plan the welcome Cam parade. I am saying that right now there is too much risk to be pimping him---that is his father's job. Character and football intelligence matter more than arm strength and tight spirals. The boy has issues. Give him the keys to the castle if you want, but I would not let him past the guards without an escort.