Cam wants a run game

[CRA]

I'm not going to argue with you ad nauseum, giving you more unnecessary 'contrarian' attempts/attention that you may crave. So I'll be brief.

1) Do you understand context, history, and/or comprehension?

When the writer says 'a pocket passer first', they're obviously stating that Cam wasn't enough of one last year (and/or that's the teams feelings). No one ever said that Cam wasn't a pocket passer.

2) No one is arguing if Cam runs in space and when the play breaksdown. That's situational. Our issue is: Out of the Read Option sets too often, or as the Go to Short Yardage or Goal Line option too often.

What was written here and elsewhere (in this article, with Panther quotes), was quite clear and self explanatory.

Is it really that hard to understand, comprehend, or acknowledge?

Gettlemen didn't say Cam wasn't making plays in the pocket....he was just giving his views on how the position is played in the NFL when asked.

Cam is almost oddly comfortable and stays in the pocket too long for someone with his skills. Unique.

People are making a Gettlemen sound bite into more than it was....

Over the course of two seasons the read option overall has been a small wrinkle.....an option. Again, people focus too much on 4 games of overuse

[Ace_Aladdin]

So if the boss tells his supervisor that we are going to change directions and instead of focusing on overseas sales we are going to concentrate on domestic sales, is that going to impact the supervisor's coaching to the salesforce??

 

In like fashion when gettleman said we were going to use the read option less and focus on having newton being a pocket passer he was telling Rivera how the play calling would change.  You can be sure that Richardson is in agreement with it or is letting Gettleman do it his way. 

 

Gettleman by the nature of telling what Rivera what he wants to see is influencing the way Rivera coaches. It doesn't take a genius to see that. 

 

 

hahaha .....this argument is pointless  nothing will convince you that your wrong or that i'm wrong......we will let the season play out and see who is right.

[Ace_Aladdin]

I highly doubt Richardson would be more involved in the coaching and teams direction (at least for this discussion)  than Gettleman. 

 

As far as coaching and direction, just look at Gettlemen's chops, history, resume and background? 

 

Of course he will help Rivera plan his year, direction and coaching/duties. That's his job!

 

This is of course in stark contrast of Hurney, who couldn't get the respect of Rivera, or JR for that matter. 

 

As far as your question again: Gettleman effects the coaching, cause he provides the direction of the team, from the top down, which of course effects the coaching and direction of the team. The De-Emphasis of the Read Option is an example of that. 

 

If you didn't think Gettleman had influence: Why do you think he wanted to watch Tape of all 16 games in 2012, and probably 2011 for that matter? Come on now. 

 

In addition: Remember, in this relationship/situation, Gettleman probably holds more power and clout than Ron Rivera, who up until this point in his career has accomplished nothing as a Head Coach. 

 

 

He provides direction of the team through the players he brings in and managing the salary cap........right now Rivera is Richardson coach not Gettleman.....i never said that he doesn't help Rivera with the coaching but some people on the huddle thinks he has absolute power and changing coaching methods by order........his influence comes from team management of roster and finance.........

 

The De-Emphasis of the read option came when Chud left and Rivera promoted Shula to OC........it doesn't take a GM for the coaching to change that knowing what happened last season .........and probably where implementing the change before  Gettleman was even hired.

[FootballMaestro]

He provides direction of the team through the players he brings in and managing the salary cap........right now Rivera is Richardson coach not Gettleman.....i never said that he doesn't help Rivera with the coaching but some people on the huddle thinks he has absolute power and changing coaching methods by order........his influence comes from team management of roster and finance.........

 

The De-Emphasis of the read option came when Chud left and Rivera promoted Shula to OC........it doesn't take a GM for the coaching to change that knowing what happened last season .........and probably where implementing the change before  Gettleman was even hired.

 

1st point/Paragraph) Rivera's not a big time coach. So what makes you think that Gettleman doesn't have influence over Rivera, especially when Ronnie was on the hot seat last year, when most observers felt he should have lost his job?? Rivera has no express power in this relationship. He's a collaborator at best. That's where the smart $$ is. 

 

2) No, the De-Emphasis of the Read Option, actually started around the middle of the season, when Hurney got fired and Rivera knew his job was on the line, and needed to do something to save it. This was directly expressed by Rivera in a NFL.com article by Albert Breer earlier this year. 

 

I'm sure when Gettleman came in and saw the film (with or with out Rivera and Shula's input), he reinforced the less Read Option notion. And if you watch NY Giants games, it's pretty obvious why. Cam and Eli really do have a lot in common as far as how they throw the ball (excellent, rugged, upright, downfield throwers, who can be inconsistent in the short and intermediate game, who eventually get hot again and make some outstanding throws, plays and drives after). When Gettleman see's Cam, I'm sure he sees Eli as well.  And Cam is way ahead of where Eli was his first 2 years. Makes sense?

 

The reason why many talk about Gettleman vs Rivera the way we do is for three simple reasons:

 

1) Most strong General Managers have Direct input of Coaching Philosophy, Player Direction, and the type of team they will implement. That's no secret.  

 

2) More importantly: Rivera is a weak coach, in no position to dictate to or ignore Gettleman if he knows what's good for him. Rivera's is/has been on the hot seat, and will continue to be, unless his team makes the playoffs, or misses out with a winning record. And the Panthers need that now. You essentially had a team last year, with a inexperienced 2nd year HC, an inexperienced, hard headed 2nd year OC, and a non football GM. Where were the grown ups to over see the children?

 

3) Gettleman, has been around football as long/longer than Rivera. And he came highly recommended--as the GM by Ernie Accorsi, Richardson's GM consultant. Who do you think Richardson trust, believes more at this stage? And if you think it's Rivera, please tell me why with his track record of admitted futility, poor management and in-experienced coaching moves so far?

[MadHatter]

hahaha .....this argument is pointless  nothing will convince you that your wrong or that i'm wrong......we will let the season play out and see who is right.

 

The facts prove that you are wrong....but to each his own.

[Ace_Aladdin]

The facts prove that you are wrong....but to each his own.

 

 

what facts............find it for me and post it.

[FootballMaestro]

The bottom line is: Rivera is in no position to dictate to a New General Manager, when his job security, Leadership, game management , and won/loss record, close games, have been shaky from day one.

 

At best, he's a collaborator. At worst (or more than likely), he's subordinate to the General Manager.

 

Rivera's got a lot to prove in the eyes of Richardson, Gettleman, and the fans, to get a 'Defacto' Benefit of The Doubt in Controlling the team and it's direction, as some here want him to.   

 

How soon do we forget he was hung out to dry, with his fate publicly decided weeks AFTER the season ended. Does that sound like a Coach in a position of power, benefit of the doubt??

 

How is this lost on some of us (shrugs)??

 

 

[Ace_Aladdin]

1st point/Paragraph) Rivera's not a big time coach. So what makes you think that Gettleman doesn't have influence over Rivera, especially when Ronnie was on the hot seat last year, when most observers felt he should have lost his job?? Rivera has no express power in this relationship. He's a collaborator at best. That's where the smart $$ is. 

 

2) No, the De-Emphasis of the Read Option, actually started around the middle of the season, when Hurney got fired and Rivera knew his job was on the line, and needed to do something to save it. This was directly expressed by Rivera in a NFL.com article by Albert Breer earlier this year. 

 

I'm sure when Gettleman came in and saw the film (with or with out Rivera and Shula's input), he reinforced the less Read Option notion. And if you watch NY Giants games, it's pretty obvious why. Cam and Eli really do have a lot in common as far as how they throw the ball (excellent, rugged, upright, downfield throwers, who can be inconsistent in the short and intermediate game, who eventually get hot again and make some outstanding throws, plays and drives after). When Gettleman see's Cam, I'm sure he sees Eli as well.  And Cam is way ahead of where Eli was his first 2 years. Makes sense?

 

The reason why many talk about Gettleman vs Rivera the way we do is for three simple reasons:

 

1) Most strong General Managers have Direct input of Coaching Philosophy, Player Direction, and the type of team they will implement. That's no secret.  

 

2) More importantly: Rivera is a weak coach, in no position to dictate to or ignore Gettleman if he knows what's good for him. Rivera's is/has been on the hot seat, and will continue to be, unless his team makes the playoffs, or misses out with a winning record. And the Panthers need that now. You essentially had a team last year, with a inexperienced 2nd year HC, an inexperienced, hard headed 2nd year OC, and a non football GM. Where were the grown ups to over see the children?

 

3) Gettleman, has been around football as long/longer than Rivera. And he came highly recommended--as the GM by Ernie Accorsi, Richardson's GM consultant. Who do you think Richardson trust, believes more at this stage? And if you think it's Rivera, please tell me why with his track record of admitted futility, poor management and in-experienced coaching moves so far?

 

 

 

 

This is Gettleman 1st year as a GM he still has to prove  that he was the right hire...( I believe he will be good GM so far he has done a good job...but wait at least couple of years!)  Second if he was so good why wasn't he hired as GM longtime ago.

 

you say all that about Rivera then why did Richardson keep Rivera in first place instead of   letting his Highly regarded  GM that has godly knowledge of football than anyone else hire his own coach that would be better than  this inexperienced coach......

 

Teams are successful in the NFL by players 1st, Coaches, 2nd and then ....GM ............ New York giants (couch Coughlin)

San-Fransico - (jim harbaugh) - Ravens- ( John Harbaugh), Seattle -(Pete Carroll), Steelers - (Mike Tomplin), Saints -(Sean Peyton), Patriots - (Belichick)  Atlanta - (Mike Smith), Houston - (Gary Kubiak) ...and on on

 

These team do have good GM but the point of the GM is to bring in the necessary players and keep financial stability  and place the team in position to be successful ........It always comes down to coaches and players 

 

He is not big time coach right now because he was never truly placed in position to do so........i think you hatred for Rivera and ego is coming in the way.........but you'll find out how good of coach he is ..........how bout  ban from the forum for life! if i'm right after this season.

[FootballMaestro]

This is Gettleman 1st year as a GM he still has to prove  that he was the right hire...( I believe he will be good GM so far he has done a good job...but wait at least couple of years!)  Second if he was so good why wasn't he hired as GM longtime ago.

 

you say all that about Rivera then why did Richardson keep Rivera in first place instead of   letting his Highly regarded  GM that has godly knowledge of football than anyone else hire his own coach that would be better than  this inexperienced coach......

 

Teams are successful in the NFL by players 1st, Coaches, 2nd and then ....GM ............ New York giants (couch Coughlin)

San-Fransico - (jim harbaugh) - Ravens- ( John Harbaugh), Seattle -(Pete Carroll), Steelers - (Mike Tomplin), Saints -(Sean Peyton), Patriots - (Belichick)  Atlanta - (Mike Smith), Houston - (Gary Kubiak) ...and on on

 

These team do have good GM but the point of the GM is to bring in the necessary players and keep financial stability  and place the team in position to be successful ........It always comes down to coaches and players 

 

He is not big time coach right now because he was never truly placed in position to do so........i think you hatred for Rivera and ego is coming in the way.........but you'll find out how good of coach he is ..........how bout  ban from the forum for life! if i'm right after this season.

 

1) Unfortunately, most of what you wrote was indecipherable. 

2) Gettleman may be 'unproven' as you say. But that's better than being bad in so many areas, which Rivera has already shown/proven in so many instances. At this stage/unlike Rivera, Gettleman has a clean slate. 

 

Gettleman wasn't hired previously, because he didn't market himself like other GM's.He's Ole Skool, and has said as much publicly and to the Giants, when he removed himself from GM consideration several years ago. However, what you should be asking yourself is: Why was he hired over so many other young hot shots after the season?

3) You ask "why did Richardson keep Rivera", etc. I ask, why did he let him twist in the wind, if he was such a good, deserving coach? No owner would ever place a respected, deserving coach through that. 

 

The irony is: You're making my argument for me regarding coaches vs GM's, players. 

 

The Ravens, Seattle, The Steelers, Patriots, Atlanta and the Giants, are all known for having hired excellent General Managers, and/or having excellent longtime team organization and management. You could have said the same about San Francisco up until a few years ago.  The great organizations always come from the top down, not vice versa. 

 

4) I don't hate Rivera at all. I just don't think he's been terribly un-impressive in some critical areas, which has cost the Panthers games his first two years. That's a fact.  More importantly, It doesn't matter what I think. Rivera was on the hot seat last year, and therefore is in no position to dictate to the New General Manager? Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Rivera, is currently nobody in the NFL's eyes, until proven otherwise. That's the nature of the business, not what I think.

 

Nonetheless, I hope he gets better, learned his lessons, and has a great year. We're all counting on it/him!

[Ace_Aladdin]

1) Unfortunately, most of what you wrote was indecipherable. 

2) Gettleman may be 'unproven' as you say. But that's better than being bad in so many areas, which Rivera has already shown/proven in so many instances.

 

Gettleman wasn't hired previously, because he didn't market himself like other GM's.He's Ole Skool, and has spoken about this. However, what you should be asking yourself is: Why was he hired over so many other young hot shots?

3) You ask "why did Richardson keep Rivera", etc. I ask, why did he let him twist in the wind, if he was such a good, deserving coach? No owner would ever place a respected, deserving coach through that. 

 

The irony is: You're making my argument for me regarding coaches vs GM's, players. 

 

The Ravens, Seattle, The Steelers, Patriots, Atlanta and the Giants, are all known for having hired excellent General Managers, and/or having excellent longtime team organization and management. You could have said the same about San Francisco up until a few years ago.  The great organizations always come from the top down, not vice versa. 

 

4) I don't hate Rivera at all. I just don't think he's been terribly un-impressive in some critical areas, which has cost the Panthers games. That's a fact.  More importantly: It doesn't matter what I think. Rivera was on the hot seat last year, and therefore is in no position to dictate to the New General Manager? Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Rivera, is currently nobody in the NFL's eyes, until proven otherwise. That's the nature of the business. Nonetheless, I hope he gets better, learned his lessons, and have a great year. 

 

Why did Richardson keep him maybe because he has faith in him that he can take them to the Playoffs then to the Superbowl why would he waste a year of time and keep him instead of letting his GM start his team the way he wanted to. Rivera isn't perfect but  he knows that if he could get a good GM that can place the team in good position  then RIvera will be a successful coach.

 

Gettleman wasn't hire because he is old school.....no he wasn't hired because  no team wanted him until Panthers came and picked him up.  

 

I didn't say he was dictating to the new GM....... i'm only saying  the our GM is not the driving force behind the coaching of the team.

 

[FootballMaestro]

Why did Richardson keep him maybe because he has faith in him that he can take them to the Playoffs then to the Superbowl why would he waste a year of time and keep him instead of letting his GM start his team the way he wanted to. Rivera isn't perfect but  he knows that if he could get a good GM that can place the team in good position  then RIvera will be a successful coach.

 

Gettleman wasn't hire because he is old school.....no he wasn't hired because  no team wanted him until Panthers came and picked him up.  

 

I didn't say he was dictating to the new GM....... i'm only saying  the our GM is not the driving force behind the coaching of the team.

Bottom Line: Richardson made Rivera twist in the wind, and have every reporter speculate on him getting fired. Good, respected coaches don't go through that, if their owners had the "faith" in them  you're saying JR had for Rivera. One could argue, that Richardson was just being 'Cheap', and didn't want to pay two coaches (or he wasn't sure of RR's fate). Why is this so hard to understand?

 

You obviously don't know Gettleman's GM background and story. So I'll leave it there, if his background/history was lost on you. 

 

I'm saying Rivera, CAN'T DICTATE TO THE GM, and if anything, it's the GM dictating to him. And at best (for Rivera) he's a collaborator, with Gettleman having the final say, as DG has said prevously!

 

The direction of the team, expressly affects the coaching. Plus, if Gettleman sees something he doesn't like during a game or film, he will discuss it with Rivera, and possibly give suggestions. That's his job. 

 

I think you were too used to Marty Hurney being GM, instead of a no nonsense GM with a coaching and player personell background (in successful organizations to boot), as Gettleman. 

 

What do you think a Good General Manager does? Plus, Gettleman's not the one on the hot seat. Rivera is (until proven otherwise). 

[Ace_Aladdin]

Bottom line is Richardson kept Rivera even with 2 losing season!!!!!!!!!! and didn't let his new GM pick out his own head coach.....yes of course Gettleman is going to give advice and vice versa  but the bottom line is that  coaching is going to be left to Rivera!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

I think being cheap wasn't the reason ........if Richardson believed that he wasn't a good coach and would have a another losing season which would equal to less revenue (tickets, Merchandise,..etc) for the team = less money for Richardson......... he would have hired a new coach. 

 

No i'm not used to Hurney....i like Gettleman as the GM and he will do a good job but I also believe that RIvera is a good coach and will be one of the up and coming coach that you will be riding the bandwagon halfway through the season............ don't go to hiding when where in week 8 :)

[CRA]

1st point/Paragraph) Rivera's not a big time coach. So what makes you think that Gettleman doesn't have influence over Rivera, especially when Ronnie was on the hot seat last year, when most observers felt he should have lost his job?? Rivera has no express power in this relationship. He's a collaborator at best. That's where the smart $$ is.

2) No, the De-Emphasis of the Read Option, actually started around the middle of the season, when Hurney got fired and Rivera knew his job was on the line, and needed to do something to save it. This was directly expressed by Rivera in a NFL.com article by Albert Breer earlier this year.

I'm sure when Gettleman came in and saw the film (with or with out Rivera and Shula's input), he reinforced the less Read Option notion. And if you watch NY Giants games, it's pretty obvious why. Cam and Eli really do have a lot in common as far as how they throw the ball (excellent, rugged, upright, downfield throwers, who can be inconsistent in the short and intermediate game, who eventually get hot again and make some outstanding throws, plays and drives after). When Gettleman see's Cam, I'm sure he sees Eli as well. And Cam is way ahead of where Eli was his first 2 years. Makes sense?

The reason why many talk about Gettleman vs Rivera the way we do is for three simple reasons:

1) Most strong General Managers have Direct input of Coaching Philosophy, Player Direction, and the type of team they will implement. That's no secret.

2) More importantly: Rivera is a weak coach, in no position to dictate to or ignore Gettleman if he knows what's good for him. Rivera's is/has been on the hot seat, and will continue to be, unless his team makes the playoffs, or misses out with a winning record. And the Panthers need that now. You essentially had a team last year, with a inexperienced 2nd year HC, an inexperienced, hard headed 2nd year OC, and a non football GM. Where were the grown ups to over see the children?

3) Gettleman, has been around football as long/longer than Rivera. And he came highly recommended--as the GM by Ernie Accorsi, Richardson's GM consultant. Who do you think Richardson trust, believes more at this stage? And if you think it's Rivera, please tell me why with his track record of admitted futility, poor management and in-experienced coaching moves so far?

1. Belichick wasn't a big time coach either 2 years in. I think people are too tough on Rivera....he admits he is learning. Dude knows his X's and O's.....and I wouldn't give Gettlemen an edge on that stuff.

2. Rivera has to worry about pleasing Richardson....more so than Gettlemen. Big Cat makes the calls here....our history backs that.

3. If the Big Cat trusted our old first time GM as much as some imply.....he would have allowed him come in here and build his team. He didn't. JR made the call on the Rivera/Cam era and basically told Gettlemen to deal with it.

[CRA]

1) Unfortunately, most of what you wrote was indecipherable.

2) Gettleman may be 'unproven' as you say. But that's better than being bad in so many areas, which Rivera has already shown/proven in so many instances. At this stage/unlike Rivera, Gettleman has a clean slate.

Gettleman wasn't hired previously, because he didn't market himself like other GM's.He's Ole Skool, and has said as much publicly and to the Giants, when he removed himself from GM consideration several years ago. However, what you should be asking yourself is: Why was he hired over so many other young hot shots after the season?

3) You ask "why did Richardson keep Rivera", etc. I ask, why did he let him twist in the wind, if he was such a good, deserving coach? No owner would ever place a respected, deserving coach through that.

The irony is: You're making my argument for me regarding coaches vs GM's, players.

The Ravens, Seattle, The Steelers, Patriots, Atlanta and the Giants, are all known for having hired excellent General Managers, and/or having excellent longtime team organization and management. You could have said the same about San Francisco up until a few years ago. The great organizations always come from the top down, not vice versa.

4) I don't hate Rivera at all. I just don't think he's been terribly un-impressive in some critical areas, which has cost the Panthers games his first two years. That's a fact. More importantly, It doesn't matter what I think. Rivera was on the hot seat last year, and therefore is in no position to dictate to the New General Manager? Why is that so hard to understand?

Rivera, is currently nobody in the NFL's eyes, until proven otherwise. That's the nature of the business, not what I think.

Nonetheless, I hope he gets better, learned his lessons, and has a great year. We're all counting on it/him!

Talent has cost Rivera many games....coaching a few.