MasterAwesome

I saw that, but I also saw that PFF had Scourton listed with 8 sacks which just seems wrong lol or at least everywhere else I saw had him at 5 sacks. They also had him with wayyyy more pressures than I saw elsewhere so I dunno it just seems sus.

If you account for the discrepancy in snap counts, then Princely and Scourton actually had pretty similar production. Scourton: 717 snaps (68%) 47 tackles (7 TFL) 5 sacks 15 pressures 1 FF Princely: 222 snaps (22%) 24 tackles (2 TFL) 1.5 sacks 5 pressures 1 FF, 1 FR I think Scourton was simply given more opportunities to flash. Then it goes to a more abstract argument of why Princely was not given more playing time. But then we'd be blindly giving credence to the same guy who not only drafted DJ Johnson, but was happy to waste a roster spot and snaps on the guy for 2 seasons and some change.

We did at least try to sign Milton Williams who would've been a big dollar FA signing to put next to Brown. Wharton had a pretty underwhelming year to say the least, but he dealt with multiple injuries so maybe we can get him back healthy enough to contribute next season. He's been inactive since the Bye week but we might actually get him back for Saturday. Would be a nice time for him to step up lol.

It's cute how shy he is about his fandom. Started his own thread glazing him where he went on for 21 pages with "THIS KID CAN PLAY". Now all of a sudden Shough is "comparable to Young" lol I guess he thinks Young can play? Quite the bold take and unexpected plot twist! "Well I could talk about Sam Darnold or Drake Maye instead!" - yeah you could have, but nope....of all the QBs to fawn over, he got a bad case of that Shough fever

Well even if we took diverging paths getting there...our overall assessment of Shough is the same (bolded) lol so I guess that's what matters. What you call "playing at a level that looks like a veteran starter" is the same thing I'm referencing when I talk about his poise. Although I still wonder how truly "bad" of a team the Saints are. Their defense is middle-of-the-road, and their offense does have some good pieces (Olave, Juwan Johnson) outside of running back which is the position most everyone agrees is relatively plug-and-play. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the majority of NFL team's o-lines lol but I'm assuming Saints are not great there, although Shough's pressure % seems to have been quite low (and steadily improving) over the last four weeks (20 -> 16.7 -> 15.0 -> 13.0) so maybe they've been playing better as of late, or perhaps Shough himself deserves credit for that. Some of the language I'm hearing about Shough, including talking about how he's way above league average in several categories, makes it sound like Shough is having a rookie season on par with like a CJ Stroud who established himself as basically a Top 5-10 QB his rookie season. Maybe that's on me though, I don't mean to attribute anything to you that I'm sure you don't agree with.

Please don't tell me you just averaged the QB ratings of all of Shough's starts to declare his QB rating as better I hope you don't actually believe that's how it works. Otherwise please show your math on Shough's QB rating as a starter. Thanks for including Shough's 2.6 more Rushing YPG in this comparison, really doesn't feel at all like you're desperately grasping for as many straws as you can here. The truth is, it takes a statistical bottom-tier starting QB like Bryce Young to make Shough look simply OK by comparison. And that bottom-tier starting QB still, by your own admission, puts up more points for his offense than Shough. You're framing this as damning for Bryce, but in reality the fact that him and Bryce are so neck-and-neck is shining Shough in a very poor light. Yes Shough is a rookie and Young is a 3rd year starter, which is why I circle back to my position of Shough having a "pretty solid, encouraging rookie season" whereas you're fanboying over him. Never mind that Shough is 2 years older than Bryce though. Normally yes a QB's experience in the league is invaluable...but Bryce is kind of a unique situation considering the biggest complaint with him is he is too physically limited to succeed in the league. Do we think a QB can overcome severe physical limitations simply with experience? Also I remember wayyyy back (/s) when we cared so much about DJ Johnson being an older rookie and our standard for them being that they're more NFL-ready and able to contribute sooner rather than later. But now all of a sudden Shough is just a poor little 26-year-old rookie on an awful team. Seriously...the way you frame everything around Shough is straight out of a fanfic. Constantly referencing with tears in your eyes how he's succeeding against all odds on such an awful team. Meanwhile the Saints' D is 14th in PPG and their offense (led by Shough) is 29th in PPG. Telling me how the Saints managed a win on Shough's shoulders against the Jets last week who put up...*checks notes*...6 points against the Saints' D. Yes god bless the savior Shough who willed his team to victory against those juggernauts led by Brady Cook. Never mind how Taysom Hill threw as many touchdowns in 1 passing attempt as Shough did in 49 passing attempts. Yikes.

Lol you're telling me you need to explore more creative indirect avenues to express your dissatisfaction with Bryce? Yes, surely it is impossible to talk about how poor Bryce has been playing without glazing Tyler Shough in parallel. Sure thing...just be proud and wear your Shough #1 Fanboy badge with honor

Ok fair to judge only his starts. But you do acknowledge that going from "he's waaaay above league average in a number of categories" to "here's a single stat where he's above league average (not "waaaay") and another where he is exactly at the league average" is a pretty significant backpedal, no? I'm guessing he's probably in the ~10th range for completion percentage too if we're only looking at starts (I'm too lazy to isolate his starts and do the calculations), so I'll grant you that one too. But I don't think completion percentage is all that meaningful as a standalone stat if it isn't bolstered by good TD%, Y/A, etc. On that note, for how much people like posting Passing Charts in here (*cough* CRA) - if you peep Shough's passing charts, he hasn't completed a single 20+ yard pass in the past 3 games combined. His last one was in Week 13 against the Dolphins, which was a single pass of 24 yards. I just want to be consistent in how we apply our standards - I think it's always been warranted to criticize Bryce for it (even dating back to his rookie season), but do we suddenly not care about that with Shough? And yeah I did acknowledge that Saints' fans have reason to be excited about him and complimented his poise, which is giving my props. Still not sure I agree that he looks better than a "ton" of QBs nor do I think you or anyone have really demonstrated that. I think you are generally one of the more reasonable level-headed posters which is why I'm confused at what I consider to be rather hyperbolic language about Shough.

Oh boy how the tables have turned...the passion and extent at which you defend Shough would make even the staunchest Bryce fanboys blush. The bold part is especially straight from their playbook. Even if someone here were to withhold giving Shough props, it's pretty understandable as a Panthers fan. What's quite odd is becoming the biggest stan of our most hated rival's starting QB. I don't think even Saints fans drool over him this hard. For the record I think this talk about "stans" and "fanboys" is cringe AF and I'm admittedly being rather hyperbolic because this is exactly the kind of discourse and language you personally love to engage in and it's fun to play in the mud from time to time. There is absolutely no world where you do not meet your own criteria of a "Super Stan" for Shough with how loosely you apply that label to people for Bryce in here. You're like the Final Boss of Super Stans.

Exactly which categories? I posted his stats above.

He's probably shown enough to warrant excitement from Saints fans. He does seem pretty poised from what I've seen, which granted is only the two games against us which incidentally were his two best games of the season lol. But yeah...his performance is so overblown. 14th in Completion % 22nd in YPG (7 YPG more than Bryce, for how underwhelmed we've been with Bryce's passing stats) 24th in Y/A 26th in QB rating 32nd (tied for last) in TD% Those last three are pretty important indicators of a QB's efficiency for his offense. You might see a stat line like 308 passing yards & 1 TD, and think "not too shabby". Until you see it took him 49 pass attempts to accomplish that (this was last week against a depleted Jets' D). Or 43 attempts against the Falcons to put up 243 yards, 0 TDs, and 3 offensive points.

Yeah I mean there's a reason there are "Highlight" compilation videos all over YouTube and not "Lowlight" videos. Although one team's highlights often come at the expense of another team's lowlights. But that's just secondary to the actual intent.

Is this not a bit contradictory? Also surely if any of us are smart enough to evaluate what we're seeing in real time, a former NFL QB can at least manage the same. Especially considering he's basing his analysis on hours (maybe generous?) of reviewing All-22 footage which he can play back over and over again, focusing each time on different position groups, match-ups, progressions, etc. which is simply impossible for a fan to fully assess in real time. Unless you're actually at the game, we basically only get the QB/O-line in frame during the broadcast and even in that limited window of the field, there is simply too much happening. I'm usually broadly focusing on Bryce, maybe peeping the footwork (or lack thereof) and just the overall pocket and whether there is any pressure coming. I'm not able to watch every individual one-on-one o-line match-up on top of it to see who got beat, who didn't pick up a blitz, which o-lineman didn't shift to help double-team, or whatever else. I think the truth is somewhere in between (as is almost always the case). Knowing the play call, audible, etc. is pretty important when judging individual performances, which is why we should always take PFF grades with a grain of salt. But yeah we can also get a pretty good overall sense of how a player is performing just from watching the game on the couch on Sundays. I still think there's a lot of value in a review video like this. As long as you have the bare minimum media literacy to take the interesting insights while also acknowledging inherent biases from a video like this (i.e. obviously focusing on the good over the bad).

Yeah you can just compare Sack % and Pressure % for Flacco vs. Burrow in the same offense. Flacco’s is significantly lower, but even Burrow’s isn’t too bad. Burrow’s pressure % is pretty similar to Bryce’s (23.3 vs. 23.0) and I think we all agree that we have put a pretty good o-line in front of Bryce, even with the injuries this year.

This dude has led his team to 11 PPG since taking over, which would be an NFL-worst by more than 3 PPG this season. He just put up 3 points at home for his offense against the Falcons two weeks ago. Even Rattler has averaged 5 more PPG this season, and he was benched for how poorly he was leading their offense. Rattler is a second-year 5th round pick with only 14 starts in his NFL career and is younger than Shough, so I think it’s still fair game to compare the two with the exact same supporting cast around them. Becoming a Shough fanboy is what happens when I guess you just read box scores on ESPN. You can fawn over Completion % and YPG but at the end of the day if a QB isn’t leading his offense to score points, that’s a pretty giant elephant in the room that I can’t just hand-wave. Is Shough an awful bust? Of course not, his career has barely started, and has a lot of good and a lot of bad like most rookies. But do I think he has been super duper impressive so far? Naw. We should decide as a fanbase if we’re actually serious about wanting better than mediocrity, or if we glaze starting QBs who score 11 PPG. I don’t think those are compatible positions.