MasterAwesome

You kinda gloss over this, but this is really at the crux of this whole argument....which Flacco are we talking here? You bring up that he played with 3 different teams but ignore the fact that his performance varied quite a bit from team to team. 2024 Colts: 65.3% completion, 12 TDs, 7 INTs, 220.1 YPG, 7.1 Y/A, 90.5 rating 2025 Browns: 58.1% completion, 2 TDs, 6 INTs, 203.8 YPG, 5.1 Y/A, 60.3 rating 2025 Bengals: 63.4% completion, 12 TDs, 3 INTs, 290.6 YPG, 6.8 Y/A, 96.2 rating 2025 Flacco (Browns + Bengals): 61.1% completion, 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 252.0 YPG, 6.1 Y/A, 80.8 rating vs. 2025 Bryce: 62.7% completion, 14 TDs, 7 INTs, 196.2 YPG, 6.2 Y/A, 86.0 rating I bolded the comparison that I think objectively makes the most sense...just simply comparing the two QBs for the entire season. Otherwise you'd be cherry-picking Flacco's time with the Bengals and ignoring his earlier stint with the Browns, which sounds an awful lot like people cherry-picking Bryce's stats in the second half of last season. So again, which Flacco? Basically the only thing consistent with Flacco across each of these teams was his W/L records: 2-4, 1-3, and 1-4 respectively. I'd say if we're comparing each version of him to Bryce this year: Colts Flacco > 2025 Bryce, Browns Flacco <<< 2025 Bryce, Bengals Flacco >> 2025 Bryce, and 2025 Flacco < 2025 Bryce - Flacco this year only beats out Bryce on YPG but in part because he throws significantly more passes (almost 60 YPG more than Bryce, despite a lower Y/A which is pretty telling) . Flacco is maybe the most apt case study about how important a QB's circumstances are to his success. He was easily a bottom 3 QB in Cleveland and arguably top 10-15 in Cincinnati...and we're talking about the same player from the same season. All that happened was taking him from one team and plopping him onto another team; nothing inherently changed about him as a QB. Funny enough I think that's all that one dude on here was trying to say when he made that long poorly-received post after having an epiphany working for PFF behind the scenes or w/e. That it's largely short-sighted to just try to evaluate QBs in a vacuum when there are so many variables at play that ultimately decide whether a QB is successful or not. I think Bryce has been mediocre at best this season and I'm ready to move on regardless of how he ends this season - I'm highly skeptical a strong end to the season will carry over into next year considering how last year ended and this year began. I would certainly agree that he's a bottom-third QB this year. I just don't understand you scoffing indignantly at anyone holding the opinion that Bryce has had a better season than Flacco...I can only assume it's recency bias. Or maybe you know the stats don't support you, which is why you're conjuring up the god-forsaken arbitrary "eyeball test" which is the kinda thing people in here were saying about Fields for years, pinky promising that he really truly was a franchise QB despite his awful stats. Perhaps it's called the eyeball test because I roll my eyes anytime I hear someone bring it up seriously as an argument.

I’m not making any arguments for or against McMillan. But to those saying WRs don’t need to watch film - is there no benefit to studying the opposing CB he’s going to be lined up against? I would think any matchup-based positional battle can benefit from studying film on the opposition. Especially a top WR who can expect to be shadowed by the #1 CB…if they can learn the CBs tendencies, strengths/weaknesses, etc and use that to exploit their matchup, that’s a part of film study.

I'm sorry if fact-checking is uncomfortable for you since you just blindly accepted what he said as the truth. I mean why not just say Jaycee Horn has never played a single game and has had both legs amputated in the offseason if you want to be hyperbolic and think it's acceptable to lie about statistics? We can acknowledge that he has serious injury concerns while also not making stuff up.

That's not even true... Jeff Otah started 29/64 games (missed all of 2010) = 45%. Horn started 37/68 games = 54%.

You think Jaycee Horn of the Carolina Panthers is out here winning popularity contests? Hell if anything, it's more likely he suffered from the fan portion and had to make up a lot of ground among player and coach voting. Remember this graphic from a year ago? Somehow I don't think our fans are coming out in droves to campaign for Pro Bowl selections for our players. I don't hold the Pro Bowl in super high regard but if the claim is that no reasonable person thinks Jaycee Horn is a Top 10 cornerback, I think pointing to his Pro Bowl selection is surely a valid rebuttal to that. It would appear a lot of NFL players and coaches think he's a Top 10 cornerback, which I find rather compelling.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/panthers-are-working-to-finalize-a-deal-with-eagles-dt-milton-williams I think hopefully we're still okay?

I don't think any of these moves in FA takes anyone off our board. Teams should be using FA to address their needs so that they can take BPA in the draft, instead of reaching out of desperation. I'm sure we have even stated as such.

How is this not a variation of the argument people gave for not drafting CJ Stroud because "look at this long list of failed Ohio State QBs"? I think it makes a lot more sense to judge a prospect on their own merits, rather than dinging them for the accomplishments (or lack thereof) of randos like Daniel Graham from 2002. All those players you listed have their own strengths/weaknesses and failed/underachieved for one reason or another unique to them as individuals. If you want to argue positional value, then that's different. I don't know anything about Tyler Warren, but if I could theoretically draft a Greg Olsen or a Brock Bowers with the 8th overall pick? I'd take that.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/nfl-carolina-panthers-predicted-shaq-thompson-eddy-pineiro-ian-thomas-move-on It links to the same article in the OP but I don't have a subscription to see which interpretation is more accurate as to whether Person thinks the Panthers "could" move on from Ian Thomas (as Juan characterized) or whether Person expects the Panthers to move on from Ian Thomas (as SI characterized).

Poor CJS4LIFE

I only compared Legette and Coleman because the post I was responding to had compared them. Not sure why you're still claiming I said Legette "was solid", even after my last post was entirely dedicated to clarifying that he struggled. Even the other guy you think said Legette was solid, seemed to more be pointing out the double standard to praise an "impact rookie" like Troy Franklin who had far less production. Even if you want to go with the "more targets" angle, the Troy Franklin comparison doesn't really make sense either. Legette had 58% more targets than Franklin, but 89% more yards and technically 100% more TDs, although TDs are harder and less reliable to extrapolate. So Franklin still underproduced Legette if you normalize for target share. His point remains valid even under your reasoning. Yes Franklin was a 4th round pick and I think that's the key difference, but again that circles back to nobody disputing that Legette struggled this year, despite you misinterpreting a couple of posts in here. Anyways, sounds like we largely agree.

I don't know why you're arguing as if I'm claiming Legette had an incredible rookie season. I argued: 1) Legette is acknowledged as the most raw among these prospects. You don't evaluate a raw high-ceiling prospect like Legette against a polished pro-ready prospect like Ladd solely on the basis of their rookie seasons. If you think we should stop drafting the raw athletic guys and take the sure thing, then that's a separate discussion. But Ladd was always going to have the easier transition to the NFL and so nothing should be surprising about him vastly outperforming the other receivers drafted around him in year 1. 2) It felt like the timing was off between Bryce and Legette for a good number of the incompletions. So those are the justifications for the lack of production, from my point of view. If I'm explaining why I think Legette struggled, your rebuttal that Legette did in fact struggle doesn't make a lot of sense. Do you not put any of the responsibility on Coleman for the lack of targets? The Bills were desperate for somebody to emerge as their WR1 after trading Diggs. That WR room was wide open for Coleman to seize that opportunity. Instead, a guy like Shakir has less snaps than Coleman but almost double the targets. There has to be a reason Coleman isn't getting targeted more...and that reason (from 20 seconds of Googling) seems to be that he really struggles with separation. I understand being upset about passing over Ladd, but I don't know why Coleman is even in this conversation with his underwhelming rookie season.

Coleman had very similar production to Legette in their respective rookie seasons, but in a much better offensive situation. If you're acknowledging XL is the rawest of the three, then it doesn't make sense to compare them on the basis of their rookie seasons. Ladd's floor and ceiling may be mere inches apart (which is still a very good receiver), whereas Legette has miles to go to hit his potential. So it's all about his trajectory over the next 1-2 seasons. We're not built to win now anyways, so if Legette can turn into a 1000-yard receiver by Year 3 then that's still a win in my book, even if it took him longer to get there than it did Ladd. We have obviously been focusing on his drops this year, but also the timing between Bryce and Legette just seemed off at times. He had his fair share of underthrown and overthrown balls, at a seemingly higher rate than with Thielen, Coker, David Moore, and Tommy Tremble. I expect the two of them to build their chemistry in the offseason and the production should follow.

It was definitely a pretty spiral and a great throw for a non-QB, but I wouldn't say he dropped it in the bucket. Sanders had to slow down quite a bit to wait on it as it did have a lot of air on it. It was exactly the type of floater that Bryce would've gotten criticized for, but we're talking about a 1st overall QB vs. an undrafted WR so it's more than justified to assign a double standard here lol. It was an impressive enough throw that I think we can definitely add a few more trick plays in the playbook for him. I think it was a nice play design too.

I'm intrigued by Jarrett Kingston who we picked up in waivers from SF. I feel like he has potential to become a RT. There's no way I trust him to slot in for Moton now...but he's one of the guys I'm most interested in keying in on for next preseason.