mountainpantherfan2

There's really two parts to this question. 1) What does Bryce have to do to prove that he was worthy of the 1st overall pick (and the Panthers trade up to acquire said pick) and be seen as the franchise QB/face of the organization for the foreseeable future? 2) What does Bryce have to do to be a serviceable starter past this season and allow the team to be in a position of not being desperate in their next try at acquiring a franchise QB? I don't think Bryce is capable of ever living up to the expectation of the 1st overall pick and being a franchise QB. His physical limitations will not allow him to ever be that QB. He could, however, show enough to be a placeholder. Not what you want out of this deal but it's better than him being released at the end of the season. Minimum of 6-8 wins with him showing he can lead the offense (scoring around 17-24 points per game on offense) and make plays when it matters especially as the end of the season nears. It will also show that Morgan is capable of assembling a competitive roster and Caneles is capable of installing a modern NFL offense. Then you wait and draft/sign/trade for a franchise QB when the situation is to your best advantage. This is how the Chiefs got Mahomes, the Eagles got Hurts, the Ravens got Jackson and the Packers got both Rodgers and Love. Or we luck into it like the Patriots did with Brady and the 49er's did with Purdy.

Wow, completely forgot about Matt Coral! Just think, we go with Coral and sign Dalton as backup. Trade Bruns to the Rams and keep DJ Moore. Maybe draft Gibbs at 9. Even if the season ended the same, we would have had the 1st overall pick and the 19th overall pick from Rams in this draft. Still had DJ Moore. And had two 1st round picks in 2025. God, Fitterer was an idiot!

I hated the trade up more so than draft pick last year. I just didn't see any of the options being that for sure #1 overall, franchise QB. I didn't even think they should draft a QB #9. I feel like the sweet spot to draft a QB is between picks 11-50. And don't do it when you are desperate for one. But you're right, it didn't seem like that then tried to build the team around Bryce's strengths. I would say they are doing better at that this year. And the scheme has helped other QB's in the past. Hoping for the best but not very hopeful.

That's a great analysis! So, with that analysis, how do you think Bryce had the game he had vs Green Bay. Was it that the Packer's defense was just giving him those ideal scenarios or was it an anomaly from Bryce?

@CRA actually, I said kidnap Mahomes. It was hyperbole. But if you want to take it literally, I'm still pretty sure Mahomes wouldn't have won any more games for us if the team broke into his home, covered his head with a bag, brought him to Charlotte and then tried to force him to play QB for us in 2023. Or maybe he does. Either way, I feel like the line was the bigger issue than the play at QB.

Just to clarify, Stroud had a very good season and did a lot of things the right way for a rookie. I wasn't trying to downgrade his accomplishments in 2023 at all. What I was trying to point out was that Stroud, again in my opinion, didn't showcase a skill set that resembled a player that could elevate over the struggles of the 2023 Panthers offense as a whole. QB's like Newton or Jackson or Mahomes (that last reference in my post was hyperbole) can and have elevated above their teams weaknesses. Stroud played good enough and made. those around him better enough to get them to the playoffs in a weak division. Of all the reasonable options that could have started for the Panthers at QB in 2023 (Young, Stroud, Richardson, Levis, and Dalton) none seemed to be the type of player that would have succeeded more than Young did with the offensive line and the entire offensive system being as bad as it was.

There are a lot of moving parts to this type of questions and way too many variables to consider to really predict how the outcome would have been any different in 2023 with Dalton starting more than just one game. But instead of focusing on that Seattle game, another game, and the game following it, are more intriguing to me. Week 16 vs Green Bay. Young had the best game of his rookie season. 23/36 (64%) for 312 with 2 TD and no INT. Thielen (6/94), Chark (6/98) and Tremble (4/59) all had huge plays in the passing game. The running game was a different story. Hubbard (16/43) and Sanders (3/3) combined for just 46 yards rushing. Mays was starting at LG and Jensen at RG. The offensive line was able to protect Young just enough to keep the Panthers in the game until the very end. But this wasn't because they were playing at a high level, rather the Packers defense played horrible this game. But this horrible defensive effort by the Packers allowed us to see what could be possible if Young had time to process and throw. Fast forward to Week 17 vs Jacksonville. The offense was shut out and the offensive line allowed 6 sacks and 8 more QH's. If you go back and watch these games back to back, the line play if very noticeable. When Young had time in process and move, he was spot on. When the line collapsed, like most QBs, he was ineffective. When you draft a QB 1st overall in the draft, especially if you trade up to do so, you hope to get a QB that can make plays despite the struggles around him. Think Newton his rookie year. Should the Panthers have traded up in the 2023 draft to the 1st overall and should they have drafted Young at that spot? My opinion is no to the first question and no QB in 2023 was worth trading up to take in the top 10. Neither Stroud, Richardson or Levis would have been worth it. But none of them would have fared any better than Young either with the Panthers, in my opinion. Stroud had a good season in Houston but he didn't have a Cam Newton or Lamar Jackson season. He needed slightly above average talent in one of the worst divisions to make the playoffs. He had the season we were hoping for in Carolina but wasn't going to get with Young or Stroud. Now, I'm not trying to put Young up on a pedestal here. There are a lot of questions that still surround him and his ability to be QB1 on the Panthers in the future. But the issue last year wasn't just the play at the QB position. And really, I don't think the WR issues were as much as people make them out to be. The real issue on this offense was the line and the running game. If your line can't get a push to run the ball or pass block to pass the ball, you have no offense. Start Young. Start Dalton. Draft Stroud, Richardson or Levis. Kidnap Mahomes. Doesn't matter, I think the end result would have been the same.

I have wondered the same thing. Seems possible that they had JPJ, Cooper and Brooks all rated about the same and then got the call from the Rams with the trade offer. They took it hoping that one of those 3 would be available at 52. Then JPJ got drafted at 44. Cooper at 45. So they traded back up to 46 to ensure they got one of the three they had pegged for 39. And I assume they just had Brooks rated higher than Frazier. At least that’s the way the board ended up looking to me.

I was a little surprised they didn’t draft any offensive linemen but I don’t see it as neglect. They signed 3 in FA. So it’s not like the unit hasn’t been addressed this offseason. We also signed 3 edge rushers in FA and then didn’t draft one even though it was a perceived need. One thing I forget at times with the draft is most teams have a budget either for positions or position groups that is a percentage of the salary cap. With Tilis coming in, I wonder how much influence he might have had on the direction of the draft from a financial perspective.

How bad would it be if both Cousins and Penix go on IR in the preseason? Both have a history with injuries. And with the way this all went down, it just feels like that would be the ultimate bad joke finish to the story. Not wishing anything on anyone, but Atlanta’s bad luck is on par with the Panthers. I could see it happening.

With the offense, the depth looks good except for the line. BC and Ninjam are good backups that can man multiple spots. But Mays and Zavala need some competition. Luckily, teams can routinely find quality backup lineman without having to spend big or trade. It's just a matter of letting them battle it out in camp. On defense, another depth spot at CB and Edge are needed. The fallout after the top 3 at both spots is pretty wide. Signing Gilmore takes care of one of those spots but not sure there will be anything left in the cap after doing so. Maybe Barno or Johnson might surprise us and show a lot of growth.

Wallace is a tackling machine. He has a lot of the same qualities as Morgan had to be honest. His biggest knock seems to be his ability to read and identify. If your expectation is that in year one he comes in and is that Luke style MLB that is the QB of the defense, then not he needs to develop to become that. However, if you pair him with Shaq and have Shaq call and lead the defense and ask him to go make the tackle, he will deliver.

I’ve seen three separate times already where the Panthers have been rated in the top 5 for this draft. Specifically focusing on our first 5 picks. Granted I’ve not been actively looking for these rankings so there may be some out there that have the panthers not rated as highly. As for me, I give the draft class a B but would give the total outcome an A with us picking up the 2nd for next year. Like many others I really thought we would address the center position early. That was the only negative.

I do think Clowney is better than Burns. Just as productive in rushing the passer but much better at defending the run. Joey is a down grade to Luvu though.

Xavien Howard, JC Jackson, Cameron Sutton and Patrick Peterson are all also still available. I would prefer Gilmore but there are still other option is the asking price is too high.

I’m loving the personalities of the players we have drafted. Definitely a lot of dawg in all of them.

Bryce never looked like he was in control of the offense last year. His status as the franchise QB1 is up for grabs starting with mini camp, IMO. Canales doesn’t strick me as the type of coach that sits on a player due to their draft position. If he isn’t learning the system, perfecting it and then taking control of it, then he will be benched. He is being given the benefit of the doubt to start with but this has a lot less to do with what we see on game day and more to do with what happens at training camp and in practices. I still think Bryce can be a really good to great QB. His skill set and size coming out of college does match up well with the likes of Brees and R Wilson. I think to tap into that skill set the right system has to be put into place. That’s why Canales is here. But Canales didn’t draft Bryce. And technically neither did Morgan. So if he isn’t buying in and taking the reins, Canales will want to quickly show Tepper how his system does operate with Dalton.

This analysis makes it seem like he has all the tools and speed needed to be a starter but his size is what will limit him. Tough and physical. Seems to fit the traits Morgan desires.

I guess it depends on what your expectations are to begin with. If your expectations are to win the division and make a deep playoff run and possibly make a run at the Super Bowl, then yes they are lowering expectations. What I see them doing is saying this year is all about building the foundation and developing a system and the younger players. And no that isn’t very exciting for fans. It doesn’t instill false hope like we’ve had in the past that just one or two moves could make them a championship caliber team. With that being said, this team could have a really good season. Our division is very similar to the AFC South and that same mindset ended up getting the Texans into the playoffs last season. They wouldn’t have been there had they been in another division and they had no chance of actually making a run. But Texans fans finally had a season they weren’t ashamed of. So if you really need some hope for this season, that’s where you find it.

After sleeping on it, one thing came to mind that I do like about this draft so far is that these picks are not win now picks. It feels like the GM/Coach in Carolina has been trying to keep their jobs for so long that they have drafted and signed players without a longer vision. First it was Hurney and Rivera, then Rhule then Fitt then Reich. All of these picks have greater value after 2024. They can and will contribute this season but immediate returns aren’t needed to satisfy the owner and save the job of the GM/Coach.

Very valid point. He’s a day one starter based on talent and film. I think we will be available for training camp from the rehab. But you are 100% correct, they should proceed with caution. Especially with him having so few carries in college. No reason with Sanders and Hubbard already on the team to try and push him out too quickly.

I’m not yet impressed but I am intrigued. Day 1 - I had the WR broken down into 4 groups of 3. And Legette was in that 2nd group. From the rumors and mocks, I thought he would be picked before 33, like in the 25-32 range. I think the slide of Thomas and Worthy towards the end of the round and the Bills trade with the Chiefs helped push him to the end of the 1st. McConkey, Coleman and Mitchell were more polished than Legette but the upside was way higher. Legette will most likely start on the outside opposite Johnson to start the season but we may see Theilan get as many or more reps in the slot. In today’s NFL you need 3 quality WR’s and I feel like we now have this covered. Day 2 - This is where it gets interesting. The trade to move into the first and the trade back and then up in the 2nd are all were fine with me. Much better trade strategy than Fitt and we got a 2nd in 2025 now. So really a huge win there. Brooks and Wallace are quality players picked where they should have been picked. But I think that is the problem. Neither pick was a reach but neither was a steal either. Brooks is the best RB in this draft and overall seemed to be ranked around the 45-50 player on the board. He is also a day one starter, although Hubbard will get plenty of carries as the complementary back. The intriguing part here is that most of us saw a need for a RB in the draft but that need wasn’t as high as other positions. So for the BPA based on need and positional rank, this pick didn’t make as much sense. Personally I thought Center, Corner or Tight End made more sense in the 2nd. Then if Brooks dropped to the 3rd you get him at a value. Same goes for Wallace. I’m really not sure why I see so many post about not knowing who he is. He is a 3rd round rated Linebacker. And a very good one at that. He wasn’t ranked as high as Cooper and Wilson (clearly everyone is passing on Wilson for a reason) but he was in the same tier as Colson and better than Trotter. But yet again the value for him was at the top of the 4th. With all the trades, it was almost like Morgan was purposely trying to draft the players at the point of their ranking. So I’m intrigued so far. And don’t hate or love this draft as it is now.

Hypothetically, Powers-Johnson, Frazier, Wilson and Cooper are all available at pick 39. But chances are none are available at pick 65. Would it be worth it to trade back at 39 and try to use whatever you get with the 65th pick to grab both a Center and a MLB?

Love the person and personality. He’s a dawg for sure. Time will tell if he’s a game changer. Definitely has a high ceiling. I also love the trade. Get the 5th year option for swapping one of our 5ths for their 6th. And I’m shocked at how perfect the board looks for us going into the 2nd round. There are 6 picks before we draft again at 39 and a bunch of options for us: WR - Mitchell, McConkey, Coleman and Franklin C - Powers-Johnson and Frazier CB - McKinstry, DeJean, Rakestraw, Tampa and Sainristil LB - Cooper and Wilson We will have our pick from at least 6 of the above players. To me the C’s and LBer’s seem to be the most “dawgish” of the group and I like the options for CB and WR later in the draft compared to the options for C and LBer.

If Barton or Powers-John are there at 33 then you have to draft a starting center to complete the o-line. If they are both gone, then you can look at WR at 33 and Frazier will probably still be there at 39. While I don’t see Frazier being sure bet starter right away, he could be. The drop off after Frazier is the steepest of any position we should be targeting. There are a couple other options I like later but none of them would be ready to start year one. As for WR options at 33, there’s a group consisting of Franklin, McConkey, Worthy and Mitchell that could be available and have similar rankings. But it’s unlikely that all four will still be available at 33. But one should be there at 39.