Jacabee

Tepper didn’t have the wisdom to ban the move up for Bryce. Doesn’t matter what you think about Bryce, who can argue that the move at that cost is defensible at this point? It’s a crippling trickle down affect of no top first rounders under 5 year contracts. We then doubled down with leggette after trading up. We’re spiraling debtors. Of course present staff is willing to trade in futures when, if it fails, they’re not going to be around to weather the consequences anyway.

The absolute travesty of this pick was that all you had to do was wait. We had top pick the next day of the draft at top of the second round. Spend the night regrouping. Field trade offers. Consult counter opinions. Do a last minute checklist for Christ’s sake. There were multiple viable prospects there (with McKonkey a clear fit for Bryce’s game). The trade up was just indefensible.

To be fair, things aren’t working out so well for that dude either. Still trying to spot this mythical Bryce fan club everyone keeps mentioning. There were two dudes in Bama Bryce jerseys in front of me at the AZ game. They were real quiet after the first snap

Have there been bad throws? Absolutely. That angle is fair enough for a huddle poster. But fixating on what’s going on around you rather than why you’re where you’re at….at this professional level…is extremely concerning. Hopefully it’s just a misstatement (although the effort in the weeks before does little to dispel that). To have watched the degree of sloppiness in the Pats game and not reflect on the fact that he’s been benched below those guys is a serious problem.

As painful as it might be, you’ve got to ride it out with Canales (and to a lesser extent Bryce) this year. Every other option is worse. Bryce you can bench but only once you’re sure you’re moving on. Canales you have to give enough rope to hang himself as any talented prospective replacement candidate with options will be concerned about job security. That said, Canales has done nothing to earn next year. If things continue to go this way, the biggest bargaining chip you’ll have to entice a new coach is that you will get his guy with a high draft pick. If you’re considering keeping Canales another year, you have to weigh that against (once again) sticking a new coach with a QB he didn’t draft if Canales doesn’t pan out. That also means as CarolinaLivin mentions two different systems in two years for a new qb. That’s repeating the same mistakes.

Sam Darnold does not play for the Raiders. He replaced Geno Smith in Seattle. Geno, coincidentally, is now on the Raiders with Pete Carroll at the helm.

Looking forward to T-Mac’s homecoming.

Seen a lot of talk about “cull everyone, Bryce never was it”. Maybe it’s the inevitable outcome. Maybe let’s play a few more games? The mistakes on Sunday weren’t a result of Bryce’s physical limitations. Bryce’s decision making was a problem which depending on where you sit might be a bigger issue. That’s what the stat sites are meting out. A lot went wrong outside of Bryce. A center that can’t snap. A second year receiver that doesn’t know his routes, can’t manage sidelines and isn’t cutting back to the qb on a scramble (a cardinal sin). Plays not getting in on time, resulting in awkwardly timed snaps. That’s coaching. And before I’m labeled a Bryce apologist for not participating in this circle jerk of misery, the 4th down decision to throw it away and the fumble are inexplicable. Those are unacceptable mistakes for any third year player.

We hate ourselves but we hate others just as vigorously. That’s something.

I’ll take it. Been foregoing responses because you already covered what needed to be said for years. Keep pounding man.

Two things can be true. Thielen could have been content playing with us. Yet, when the Vikings opportunity materialized, he had a preference. Doesn’t mean it’s an indictment of the Panthers. Keep in mind: 1) The opportunity arose because the Vikings WR room suddenly became depleted for the early season. In August, Addison was handed a suspension and Nailor went under the knife. 2) Thielen is from Minnesota. He maintains a home there. They signed him as a UDFA when no one else wanted him. His best years were there. He played 9 years there and now has a chance to retire there. I firmly agree that he was worth more to us than to anyone else.The Coker injury only reinforces that. Unfortunately, Minnesota means more to Thielen than anywhere else which really hurt our leverage. At least there’s the cap savings. Losing that negotiation point would have been a disaster.

“But confidence that he’s already arrived seems massively overblown…” I read this forum daily and pretty much every thread. I can’t recall a single poster making this assertion. You guys are wailing woe against a straw man. The reality is many are hopeful that post-week 8 of last year is a launching point and a significant vocal minority remain skeptical. The points on all sides have been beaten to death and most are just eager to see how it plays out. No one’s throwing a parade. They’re just out here in lawn chairs waiting for things to start. Nonetheless, some of you guys seem intent on pissing on everyone anyway.

Genuinely think it’s rookie stuff with him. His age and development coming in as a rookie is a separate convo. He’s been body catching since early this season which isn’t something that was an issue in college as far as I’m aware. In fact his strength appeared to be his extension in attacking the ball downfield in contested situations. He’s been jumping to body catch since the start of the season. Even before the aggregious drops, he was sometimes drifting out of the endzone or to a space that allowed the defender to intervene. If he cuts like he should have, Bryce has another touchdown in the Tampa Bay Game (not to mention the other one the refs stole from Thielen). It’s a habit he has to break. The good part is he is definitely getting open, sometime on some very savvy moves. One of the main reasons to keep watching this season is whether he can put it all together.

There is definitely a hands problem. The question is whether and how much the cause is mechanical or mental. Rather than attacking these balls, he’s waiting on them and body catching. He’s even jumping at times to secure a body catch. These are mechanics that can be fixed. That said, a common reason for being hesitant to get extended is anticipating getting hit. If that’s the driving force, he has to work through it mentally. That hospital ball in the first quarter of the Eagles game wont help.

I’ll take the raisins on this one.

1) Still young at 25. Good contract for the production, especially at only 15 million guaranteed. 2) Investing in a core offensive identity. An elite running back corps is a force multiplier with our upgraded interior line. 3) Acknowledging performance and retaining developed talent sets an important precedent for a young, rebuilding team. 4) This “devaluation” of running backs perspective seems to be waning. Setting aside the Chiefs and their hall of fame coach/QB/TE combo, the tops teams have all invested in RBs, many of which were free agents. Lions with a contract to Montgomery and first round Ghibbs. Ravens sign Henry. Eagles sign Barkley. Vikings sign Jones. Packers sign Jacobs. Commanders sign Ekeler. Texans sign Mixon. Bills have their second rounder Cook who filled in after 3rd rounder Moss was underwhelming (who the Bengals then signed this offseason but is hurt). The niners moved for CMC. Steelers Harris was a first rounder. Falcons have Bijan playing well.

The way to beat this Bengals team is physically: power running and ball control. You're not going to out-air them. There was a game last year where the ravens tried and burrow readily out-dueled jackson. They have too many weapons. I believe Higgins returns this week. They're also down Trent Brown so Mims will see his first start. This game will tell us whether or not our O-line is legit.

I get your point. This is a message board not a board room. I agree he's not been good. But the reason why weighs heavy on whether you should keep him rostered or not. If you truly believe he's irredeemable, cut bait and conserve what you can. However, I don't think most nfl personnel look at Bryce Young as irredeemable. On top of that, Canales was hired at least in part to develop the kid. Let him see what he can do without the pressure while a vet helms the team.

Appreciate these posts Jackie Lee as I've watched every one of these breakdowns since you started doing them about BY. It's typically 17 minutes of solid analysis and then 2-3 where you wonder if Adam Thielen fuged his wife.

He seems to be a well-liked, humble locker-room presence. If he's not a problem, what's the need to evict immediately? Why not let him develop under Canales without the pressure of being the figurehead. He was benched because he wasn't performing baseline NFL QB tasks. Pre-snap he was seeing ghosts and post-snap not even bothering with progressions. Even when "creating" outside the pocket, he failed to execute baseline NFL throws. The kid looked rattled. It's a combination of the actual hits, the media hits and his own personal frustration with failure. That said, the narrative that he doesn't have the physical talent to play in the NFL is incomplete. Yes, he lacks physical talent when compared to the elite of the elite, but his size and arm strength are not reasons he can never be successful in the NFL. They just can't bail him out. The problem has been the lack of decisiveness. That's why you see him drifting backwards on his tip toes, constantly re-setting his feet rather than taking a conventional drop. You're never gonna get the velocity when constantly throwing off your back foot. The mediocrity of his physical talent only compounds the issue. We gain very little by getting rid of him, especially in comparison to what we paid. His value will never be lower. Maybe some time out of the spotlight will help upgrade the Pentium Pro to at least a Sky Lake. Matt Cassell went for a 34th overall pick. Sam Darnold just threw 4 touchdowns in Minny for a 3-0 team. Hell, the 36 Y.O. Red Rifle has the media in a tizzy trying to learn the names of Panther's players to explain why the Raiders got molly-whopped. Maybe Canales is a QB whisperer. Maybe he can turn BY into an asset of greater value. We've already paid the cost.

The history there would be my concern. I’d need to do a deep dive into what broke down. Say you nail an extension now at 3 years, 18 million per year. If you expect him to perform as 1b-2a for the duration, that’s a decent discount. In consideration and accounting for “inflation”, you take on the uncertainty of how he’ll perform in our system and he gets security. We win there if he outperforms the contract but plays it out. That last part gives me pause. If he balls out, would he ride out an undervalued contract going into his 30’s?

Kid is only 20 years old. Without the ACL, he’s probably a first rounder. If he’s goes back to school another year, that’s probably the case as well. Instead, he came out this year while the competition at the position was weak and he ended up being the first RB anyway. Even if he didn’t play at all this year, that’s essentially swapping the mid-second we used on him for the future first he would have been. Put in that context, give him all the time he needs. This year should be about developing him into a complete nfl-level back.

It was both literally and figuratively a parade of horribles. 1) Glut of coaching “talent” with designs that didn’t match the personnel and didn’t mesh with each other. 2) An o-line I’ll-fitted for the scheme on the interior. Injuries compounded this critical weakness. Penetration on runs completely negated whatever zone dominance we tried to establish. 3) Lack of separation by the WR’s. A lack of speed and separation and filling the right roles led to some pretty embarrassing looks. We couldn’t win on multiple levels and it repeatedly trickled down. Also look to (2) because interior pass rush often limited the time for routes to develop. 4) Rookie qb with an average arm but degenerative mechanics. Those railing about arm strength are off. He can sling it with a solid base, and the time of release is plus. 5) as the season wore on, we saw more bailing on the pocket, more dancing, more tip toes . Which isn’t that weird given (1)-(3). Finally, CJ had one of the best seasons ever for a rookie qb and we missed the pick. It has no bearing whatsoever on whether Bryce Young can be a successful NFL QB. I’ll say this: if the kid does rebound and proves himself, that’s the gamer you want leading your team.

They approximate “styles” and even then it’s often lazy giving a general concept. The nuances of many schemes they leave to the “player adjustments” aspect which itself is a limited remedy. Things like motion are where it can break the game and end up being weird locked in routes. Defense is horribly neglected. it’s not a horrible product but as a yearly consumer it’s perpetually disappointing. The online play still suffers from certain glitches that are 10 years old