ForJimmy

Makes sense. I guess you can replace Walker with a bigger edge like Williams and still the same applies. I'd put Scourton right there with any of them not named Carter.

I just think they thought the drop off from TMac to a round 2 WR was greater than Walker to a round 2 edge like we got in Scourton. Remember teams like LAR and SF were trying to trade up for TMac with a similar thought process.

Walker has the mind and motor to be great, but yeah his size makes him a gamble which I’m good with not taking at pick 8.

Don't forget Rico is our RB2 for the year. He is our rental until Brooks can play (IF Brooks can play again).

100%. It's why the debates will never end and can go in circles over and over again. Good for offseason fillers. I feel like even baseball can be a little blurry as every player isn't facing the exact same pitcher throwing the exact same pitches in the exact same circumstances. It's hard to fully compare most players in most sports without some sort of margin of error. I get what you are saying though in football being the hardest because it's the ultimate "team" sport. One personal screws up and the entire play can blow up. I do like what PFF is trying to do though. It also gets real blurry trying to analyze what a player did wrong or right without knowing the specific play called and exactly what SHOULD have happened in that play. Did the QB miss his window? Did the WR run the correct route the correct yardage out? Did the OL hold their blocks?

I get what you are saying but they refer to themselves as a sports analytics company. It's a pretty broad term anymore but their metrics are definitely being used in today's NFL staffs. Hell one of our main analytic guys is from PFF (Eric Eager). I think his title is VP of Football Analytics. I guess I could have said their specific analytics are trending right now to make more sense.

Hopefully some secondary help comes from the cap space we freed up.

I think they have already decided to keep him out this year. After last year they are going to take their time, which I agree with you on it being the right call. Try to save anything we can from this pick...

Yes everyone has acknowledged he was very bad lol. If you want to take the “kidding” part of my post and run with it, that just shows where you are at right now. I even labeled it as “kidding” so you wouldn’t take it literally…

The teams this 2nd year player (can’t really blame the years before he was drafted on him) was playing were going 100% as most do most weeks in the NFL. The whole argument is about his play during that period and how well was he actually playing. I’m with you on the winning though. Just start winning and fans will get excited. Start getting in the playoffs and winning and we won’t care how his PFF or box score stats look. 200 yards a game to 400 yards a game, start scoring and winning playoffs games and 99% of fans will buy in.

Can't really get behind this. The NFL is too competitive of a league with jobs constantly on the line. A lot of the teams we played that 2nd half were play off teams and playing for seeding as well. I can meet you in the middle and say he needs to show consistency over the entire season to be a legit franchise QB. Same offense, same OL, and most of the same weapons should be in his favor this year. Also next year's QB class looks strong, so the pressure should be on.

Sure it was a cherry pick. Some people call it a trend since it was happening during the 2nd half and he is a relatively young QB in a new offense. You could say he is "trending" towards top 10 play in these particular categories (ones that were once, and still by some, considered weaknesses). I like that it was a majority of the season and there is a clear indicator of before and after his benching. His saving grace in the Philly game was both offenses played like crap and he nearly had that GWD against the champs. Honestly his worst game post benching was the Cowboys game. I can't believe no one is talking about that. Coker bailed him on a busted coverage for like 83 yards and a TD (again where the box score doesn't tell the whole story), but outside of that it was awful. I think we were a new offense that just struggled on the road more than not, even towards the end minus the Falcons game. That's why that last road win was so important IMO.

A majority of stats are going to have gray areas…. As I stated a QB throwing check downs in the 4th during a blowout gets free yardage so why should those passing yards be held in the same regard as one from a QB getting pressured on a game winning drive? All stats need context, it why these debates will go on and on forever. The most anyone is saying is that he was playing like a top 10ish QB during a certain portion of the season. I don’t think anyone is proclaiming anything too crazy

What it tries to do is grade each player individually IMO. If XL drops a nice pass it tries to make it not hurt the player than threw the pass and if on a similar pass a WR like DK makes a leaping one handed catch it tries to even out how much credit the QB gets vs the WR. Yeah it has grey areas because some of it can fall under opinion despite them using specific measurements and charts to justify their definitions. Like it or not PFF isn’t going anywhere. Analytics are trending up right now.

We do have the most Ted Lassoish coach in the league!

PFF made it up just to make Bryce look better. Crazy right? Also I can’t believe you said he played “better.” Careful and you might let a compliment slip…. (kidding)

So where are you at here? PFF is fabricating stats to make Bryce look better??

I also like to look at QBs listed in that statistical category. For example Josh Allen being at the top of "Big Time Throws" would help give some validity to it IMO.

Could be, but that would seem weird for big time "throw." I'd think that would fall under some sort of under pressure rating. Turning a sack into a incompletion could get you half a point for pressure rating for example. There are definitely some gray areas. I wonder if anyone on here has premium and if it touches on that.

Yeah I was reading an article that said they didn’t count XL’s drop against Bryce, but I took it as drops don’t hurt them but don’t help either and completions are what helps them. Yeah as @CarolinaLivinjust shared it’s probably a completion to be considered a “positive” play.

This explains some of the data https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-7-signature-stat-spotlight-big-time-throws-and-turnover-worthy-plays but yeah if you want a deeper look it looks like you need a premium account which I'm sure they charge for.

Yeah if a QB is doing check downs in the 4th quarter while getting blown out they can rack up a lot of yards in a box score stat. Reasons like this is why a lot of people and coaching staffs are looking into more analytical data like PFF. Again people hate on it when it counters their beliefs.

It's PFF and they explain it. There are definitely some gray areas as we mentioned. Some people like analytics and taking deep dives, but sometimes they can not align with narratives and that makes some people hate them (not singling you out as I've been guilty of this too). To each their own. Regardless it's pretty widely accepted throughout the league and fans.

I've never said he was a top 5 lol. Stats are stats unless it "garbage time" stats right? I remember you crying about those plenty of times. Stats without context don't tell the story. I just find it funny that he shared an article that literally said the box score didn't look great but let's take a deeper look and your response was basically bro look at the box score....

"The raw stats don't always tell the story, and that's definitely true with Bryce Young. The Carolina Panthers QB's season stat line is middling at best, and even some of his strongest days as a starter this year didn't result in dominant box scores." "Context matters, but there are also some things traditional metrics just can't capture. There's value in those, but advanced analytics seek to illustrate how good or bad a player was beyond the box score. In the case of Young, the analytics paint a beautiful picture." -That's the first two paragraphs from the article he posted. PFF isn't going to always agree with a simple box score. Box Score's don't always tell the story and PFF has a lot of gray areas. At the end of the day we have eyes and have to simply watch the games to see the improvements or not.