KSpan

Cam Newton for much of 2014.

I know I wasn't going to, and didn't, pay money to see the Teddy-led team play last time the team came here to KC. That empty stadium on Christmas Eve was something else.

Nearly all of the people invovled with the ultiamte decision to draft Bryce are gone, and for all we know Morgan wanted someone else. If Bryce flops this year I could very easily see them moving on Rosen-style, though even with the flop it's a low chance of happening.

Agreed, but given how big some of his technical deficiencies were last year around footwrok and things like that I don't know that we'll be fortunate enough for it to play out that way. I think he'll make some incremental improvements and look fairly similar to how he looked last year, but if there is a better team/better coaching around then it will get conflated with him showing more potential and getting another year. To summon the spirit of John Fox, it is what it is at this point.

I feel like he can be an average starter over the long term assuming there are always above-average teams and coaching around him, but in the vein of Teddy and not enough to routinely compete with the best. That said, if that is what happens, a team has to be ready to move on beyond that a la Smith and Mahomes, who of course has been so much better than anyone could have predicted. If he develops beyond that, then everyone wins and I'll be the first to say I was wrong.

I clearly stated the punch was not OK, and regardless of why he missed the camp, he said he would split it and appears to have been an arrogant ass about keeping his word. That $600 was important to his teammate and pocket change for Smith - just pay it back like he said he would, even if only as an investment in team morale. Was a bad situation overall and while (once again) punching a teammate is not acceptable, Geno badly mishandled it. Very poor leadership and maturity, and if he had a do-over I'm sure he'd pay it back instead of doing what he did. With respect to Canales, I haven't read the book but I assume Geno found some humility and empathy over the years like Canales purportedly now has as well.

Geno was, by several accounts, being an arrogant ass about it. One source from the team players: "Brandon Marshall, Jets wide receiver: That was the issue. [Smith] kept putting him off, putting him off. For Geno, what was disrespectful was -- just pay the man his $600. Just fix the situation. But to keep pressing, "I'll get you, I'll get you, I'll get you ..." I think that was the problem. Reilly: We get to training camp and IK is asking him about it. That day, he asks him. I was sitting right there; my locker was next to Geno. Geno just kind of says, "Just chill, man, forget about it. What are you going to do if I don't pay you?" Marshall: I remember looking to my left and seeing Geno kind of like give a look like, "Ha, ha, ha," like laughing a guy off and shrugging him off. All of a sudden ... boom! Geno is in a locker." Doesn't make the punch OK, but paints a certain picture. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29632538/one-punch-two-lives-altered-story-jets-2015-locker-room-fight

I am fully with you on Bryce being nowhere near the player Cam is but 2014 was really the only year the OL was wholly atrocious, and even then they had Norwelll and Turner both come on by the end of the season. That said, I have little doubt that even rookie Cam would have dragged this 2023 team to more wins this season.

For me/someone that perhaps has my same opinion: I don't wholly agree with the first point, particularly not the Atlanta game due to some defensive choices they made, but am not having that discussion again. In my eyes he played about one truly good complete half of football all year, and that was the second half vs Green Bay. Any QB can do that, e.g. Kyle Allen winning his first 5 starts. I don't really care about the second point considering how few yards he threw for and that majority of his throws were at/behind the LOS for a chunk of the season. Guys withh similar rates like Teddy, Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor, etc, aren't winning Super Bowls. That doesn't mean make stupid throws, but low interception pecentage is only impressive on teams scoring points and consistently driving the ball. I acknowledged the third point as a positive, but like any other player it shouldn't be for Bryce or any other QB. The idea is to not have to test their durability, but it does help. None of this is paticulaly encouraging above replacement level, as I mentioned before. We're going to get another season of Bryce though, so maybe 2024 somehow looks signficiantly different.

Yup. All I can say is that I don't dislike/hate/doubt it right off the bat for very obvious reasons like the past 2 hires. Would be perfectly fine if no one said another public word until the regular season rolls around... sick of drivel and meaningless coach/office-speak.

Because at this time in his current form I saw few positives above replacement level worth noting. A couple of throws late in the season, an ability to take a lot of sacks, and that's about it. We'll see what this coming season holds, but it's not like he's getting taller or getting a new arm. Only being on the field will show if he can go beyond poor-man's Teddy.

Which is absurd. Brady could absolutely sling it when he wanted to, but he generally utilized softer touch as a QB should (see: early Cam Newton). However, he could throw lasers and had a fantastic deep ball. Dude was throwing the ball 55+ yards on a dime at 45 years old his last year in the league... Brady did not lack arm strength.

That could be percevied as a double standard there, though I'll agree there are people that just seem to delight in trolling and/or are legitimately miserable. The whole point of engaging like this is for opinions to be shared, contrasted, and discussed, and if folks are going to express optimism then there are those who will engage with counterpoints as well. It's on them to recognize trolls vs legitimate pots and to discern accordingly, as lumping all other opinions into one bucket is not a good route. Looking forward, I think a lot of eyes were opened this past season and things will be more balanced. My main rub with your statement though was the assertion that anyone who wasn't optimistic either doesn't care or is miserable. That simply isn't true. In the end I don't think our views are that far off. It just sucks that the team sucks as badly as they do and have sucked for as long as they have.

Yeah, no. Bullcrap like this is the attitude that led to so much divisiveness last year when people dated to ask questions, and look who was right. Healthy skepticism/neutrality is not automatically indicative of either misery or apathy, and in fact can lead to some quality discussion if pollyannas/the rose-colored crew can handle it. I think that group is much smaller this time around than it was a year ago, but they still exist.

No, at this point he can't - it's not who he is as a player. When he winds up and puts all of his body into it he can get some velocity and a bit of distance, but downfield the accuracy goes away entirely. Anyone who watches this past season and still argues arm strength as anything above bottom-tier at the NFL level as of right now is deluding themselves.

Sanders was a ridiculous signing, another obvous and easily avoidable screw-up that the FO stil managed to bunder into. He might be worth keeping around at a fraction of his salary but sure isn't worth what he's getting.

Talk is cheap, as I said in another thread. Will believe it after seeing it for a long and sustained period of time. Call me skeptical.

Has he ever?

Has he ever?

Sorry man, but at this point nothing will incite hype until it actually shows up on the field. Talk is cheap and there's been no shortage of hollow drivel for the better part of a decade now.

He played under the 5th year option. He would now be an unrestricted FA if the team doesn't tag and/or re-sign him.

Higgins isn't under contract and neither is Burns, so some oddball dual franchise-and-trade would have to happen. Would be a rather unique happening.