frankw

Yes due to the pieces around him now. But we need vocal leadership on the defense to bring this young roster together.

That depends on the goal. Just a winning season or a return to playoff relevancy? If the latter he will need to elevate his game because top tier offenses with elite qb's will target him. They study film too.

Bottom ranked lber bottom ranked oline bottom in the standings. Boy does this franchise ever need some uplifting. Gone are the days of being the class of the nfc South. Before I delve into the now I want to take a moment to reflect on a key factor that facilitated that rapid decline from the 2015 super bowl team. That would directly be investing two first rounders in '15 and '16 in two positions of strength on players who faced an uphill battle living up to their draft position. This franchise must build wiser for the future. For the now we do not need Shaq to be an all pro. We need him to step into his role as a leader and be part of the glue that holds the defense together. Next year is next year but this defense has the makings of something special. But no one on this roster needs sweet nothings whispered in their ears. The Panthers aren't anywhere near where they need to be if playoff runs are the goal. The only way to return to form is the be honest about shortcomings and keep improving. Right now they need face an uphill battle but there is room for growth. Let us hope they will deliver.

The loudest pro Shaq Thompson guy here was also the loudest outspoken Teddy Bridgewater defender and for months railed against anyone who questioned his struggles so

Overpaid is too vague of a term. I don't see how Erving is a logical choice regardless though. It depends on what it would cost to move on if need be. If the dead cap is very steep but you can survive without them on the field there is your answer. People here mean well but they can't see past the personal attachment they have formed. Lessons have clearly not been learned since we moved on from the last Panthers franchise quarterback.

Of course things look peachy in July the future for this roster as of now has yet to be written. It's less about the total cap number and more about fully utilizing advantageous contracts from young talent on your roster while you have an open window. The cap itself can be maneuvered around see the Saints whom Carolina fans are always predicting their imminent demise because they keep kicking the can down the road yet they keep on going like the energizer bunny. 2023 is the big year for Carolina. Brian Burns will be seeking a new deal as will DJ Moore and both players will be in prime years in their mid twenties. That's a lot of dough. The offensive line concerns aren't going anywhere soon either as center will be a big need as Matt Paradis will be 34 and reaching the end of his career. Taylor Moton's services will be retained the only question is left or right. But if he's an lt he won't be had for less than 65 million looking at the contracts for other left tackles.

You honestly think he was in Tepper's long term plans once he made all that effort to fly out to hire Matt Rhule? 60 million dollars just to keep having Hurney running drafts and free agency? I'm not buying the fully hands off owner bit but if you don't agree that's fine.

The McCaffrey extension was about selling tickets and keeping fans from jumping ship after a very ugly split from Newton. I tend to think Hurney was gm in name only once Rhule was brought in. He did what he was told. It was Tepper and Rhule in the drivers seat. How we later dragged Teddy in public only further cements this.

The likelihood of an "elite" answer this year would have been low. KC got Orlando Brown but they gave up a haul. The hope was one of the top tackles falling to us at 8 in the draft but that was a longshot. There were a few older lower contract free agent left tackles we probably would have been able to lure over here for a little more than what they got. But even with a temporary viable solution and significant cap space that's still a better position to be in than facing the combined cap hits next year of 22 and 54 with our backs against the wall trying to figure out the upcoming contracts for guys like Burns and Moore and hinging the season on Erving while seeing who blinks first between us and Taylor Moton. If you were an nfl gm looking to right the ship of a struggling franchise with some nice young defensive pieces solid receivers and a young qb but ten years of throwing crap at the wall for the o line what would you put first. Offensive line or running back and linebacker?

If the best route to attack me that you've got going is me misremembering a fact from 40 or 50 years ago do you my guy. Dan Marino and Barry Sanders have nothing to do with lack of success for the Carolina Panthers. I've never said any of those players you mentioned are terrible. Burns DJ and Chinn are part of our core we should be building around while they are young and on affordable contracts. Moton is too but now his future is up in the air with his payday now due. Having the highest paid running back is bizarrely a badge of honor of sorts around these parts for some. Almost anyone with a pulse agrees McCaffrey is a gifted athlete. But not everyone is going to agree with sinking the salary cap on him while the offensive line is still very much in flux. Btw that second quote was about Cam Newton not McCaffrey. If you are going to call someone out at least get the info right.

Move him to left tackle and pay the man. Unless he wants no part of it. Then say a prayer for Sam.

So you do acknowledge the contracts are holding back growth in other areas but still think it's great? And you and SBBlue say I can't be reasoned with

You don't seek real unbiased discussion you just want others to have the same viewpoint and if they don't you flail and play the victim and call people trolls despite engaging in the same behaviors and namecalling. You are trolling too. Save yourself a hundred million dollars in two devalued positions. Acquire a real left tackle by any means neccessary and draft a running back like other teams do or pick one up on a reasonable contract in free agency like we did with Mike Davis or like Tampa Bay did last year. As for Shaq can you say our defense is night and day different without him? You can look to the draft or you can seek a temporary solution in free agency. Our bread and butter is still in the defensive line and we have a developing secondary. How different would this roster be with that much extra cap space to maneuver with and ensure our offensive line is up to the task to protect our investment at qb? But what's done is done now we have to figure out how to work around 32 million dollars in cap hits next year and other up and coming rookies approaching new contracts that won't come cheap.

The dilemma is more reps mean higher risk of injury. 22 already has high mileage from college and he has been atop the league in touches. Backs like Henry and Lynch who can keep on chugging along are rare over the years and even they eventually hit a wall. Folks here are too attached to want to see the reality of the situation. We had two top backs in the league under contract years ago and where did that take us? Carolina continually has to learn the same lessons the hard way.

Carolina has been overinvesting in running backs and linebackers for years through two different general managers. Acting like people criticizing now are being unfair is just ignoring history. Now we actually have a real pass rush developing but we have limited options surrounding that due to our two most lucrative contracts on the books being in you guessed it... an rb and a linebacker. But keep on keeping on singing that company line.

You perceive criticism and discussion as bitching but what else is there to talk about rn? O line has been and still is the biggest point of contention among fans beyond who will be our quarterback for the future. We have a young defense. We have some weapons. I wasn't thrilled with the risk of taking a tackle in the first but I feel it is a move that we need to make by next year.

I haven't replied to you since you called me a dumbass earlier I figured you would take the hint. I have no problem with Brady C from what I've heard he sounds like a great guy. The problem is waiting while other tackles went off the board ahead of us and now we can't decide if he will even be a tackle at all or a guard. That is what concerns me. The general indecisiveness around the line. Plus we still have the matter of working out a deal with TM. All around not good circumstances for Sam.

That game was a blur. Was this a penalty? Can't imagine an ejection isn't at the very least under consideration if someone hits Rodgers or Brady like that in 2021.

So the year before he was leading rusher he was having shoulder issues. Is it any wonder everything finally fell apart in '18? Good for him. I hope he opens up more about all this in the years that follow. I think we will be surprised to hear some things.

I'm relieved for you that you finally put that wet blanket insult on the shelf. You were beginning to repeat yourself. Well we didn't exactly "lose" Bradberry we never pursued bringing him back. I'm happy to have Jaycee but you could play the what if game. We also threw an entire draft at the defense in '20. Carolina still hasn't invested big enough in this offensive line though. Once again we are holding our breath hoping for the best.

Mike Davis had some nice plays last year too but we didn't hand over a brinks truck to him. When you average 5-6 wins and invest a large chunk of your salary cap into luxury positions losing is going to seep into every conversation

And in truth the fact we are even talking about all time greats in a thread about our team losing speaks to the delusion within the fanbase. This team struggles to defeat the Matt Ryan led Falcons. The franchise we have taken much glee in ridiculing.

Okay you got me I got decades mixed up. But the point remains. Marino is a hall of famer and one of the all time greats. He didn't win a ring but he did win. Barry Sanders likewise is a hall of famer. Say what you want about their overall teams but they helped make their respective franchises relevant again in their time just as Cam Newton did for us. Someone on this current iteration of the Carolina Panthers has to step up and do the same. People here talk all the time about Steve Smith being the Panthers goat but do you think he would sit around happy about his team losing while he was in his prime? This young Carolina roster needs some leadership in a big way.

Do you really think running him into the ground in 2017 had nothing at all to do with his deterioration the following season?

Winning in general is separate from winning a championship. The list of entertaining athletes without a title is plentiful. But you have to start somewhere. Dan Marino led the Dolphins to a perfect regular season. Carolina can't even compete in the division at the moment.