tukafan21

Bryce had his 3rd most passing yards in a game this season today. Bryce threw for 206 yards today. That is all.

Yes, young teams need to learn how to win close games. But an overwhelming number of wins (or losses) in 1 score games is usually more about just better luck than anything else. It's why those teams with such a drastic W-L record in 1 score games are usually widely predicted by experts to have the opposite happen in the following season, and it goes for both wins or losses (see the Vikings and Chiefs this year for example).

Honest question, how many games in his career has he not even had the opportunity to do this? If we're down 1 point entering the 4th quarter and we score a TD on the first play of the quarter and then never give up the lead, that counts as a GWD for this stat. The Falcons shutout this year obviously is one, but outside of that, have we ever entered the 4th quarter with a lead and held it until the game was over? I'd love to know how many chances Peyton and Allen even had compared to Bryce at the same time frame.

Doesn't Trust Bryce Dan?

THIS times a million. We can want to see us win games while also having objective opinions about Bryce and what he can or can't be long term. The problem is we're seeing the things that show us what he can't be long term, while we're also winning games, which makes for a very weird feeling. We're not upset that we're winning games, but we're concerned that we're winning games in spite of Bryce and that it will lead to him being kept around and only delaying our eventual re-set at QB (and HC) even further down the line and that frustrates us.

Exactly, and it's why I was saying before the season and all season long so far, that I don't care about our W-L record this year, never did. This year was all about showing actual growth and consistency on the field, not a handful of great plays that make people gloss over all the bad and wrongly make them think he's some stud, which unfortunately is exactly what is happening. I wanted Bryce to either step up and unquestionably prove he's a long term high end solution at QB or completely implode and prove he must move on from him this offseason. Unfortunately he's done the exact opposite and done just enough to make a large number of fans think he's proven to be the guy, despite actually showing more proof that he's not the guy and we win in spite of him, not because of him. This season is setting us up for a rough next couple of years when we pick up or extend Bryce, keep Canales around, but we still don't turn into a true contender in the next few years and then still have to start over again, instead of just getting started on the re-set this offseason or going into next year as a true contender.

Eh, he's catching them napping because they know he can't make those throws when they properly defend it. That doesn't seem sustainable for long term success, nor is it a recipe for being able to make those throws when the other team knows you have to make them. It basically only works in a game where you're able to run the ball at will, if you aren't doing it, the defense doesn't need to worry about overloading the box thinking Bryce can't make a throw on them.

Oh I totally get what you're saying, and maybe I'm wrong, but it's just really felt like that all year long to me. When we have 3rd and 5 and we have a pass play, one of 3 things seems to happen. 1. Bryce stares T-Mac down and throws it to him no matter what. 2. Bryce takes the snap and immediately throws a quick pass to the opposite side of the field T-Mac is lined up on. 3. Bryce goes through 2 or 3 progressions before throwing, all to the opposite side T-Mac lined up on and then throws that way too. I can't ever remember seeing a team with such a clear cut #1 WR who runs theirs obvious 3rd down passing situations like this. They usually pepper that player with those targets, or if not, he's still the first read in case he's going to be open and they throw it that way if he is, if not they then progress through to the other guys. That's why I think they're dictating to Bryce on most pass plays if T-Mac is an option on it. It's like the coaches are trying to out-smart the other team's DC by saying "they think we're looking at T-Mac here, so I'm not even going to allow Bryce to look at him and make them waste defensive attention on him while I'm always having Bryce look elsewhere."

Nobody? T-Mac was always the pick, because, duh.

Yes and no, and that's what I go back to what I was saying in the game thread today about him "locking in on T-Mac at times" I don't think it was a wrong or late read, because I don't think it was a read play, I think the play was called to throw that pass to T-Mac and there was no other option. It's like they tell Bryce one of two things on 90% of pass plays. 1. This is a non T-Mac play, don't even look his way, he's just out there for the defense to give him attention. 2. This is a T-Mac pass play, you're throwing to him and nobody else so don't bother going through your progressions. It's why I don't think Bryce has an issue of locking onto him when he shouldn't be, I think it's 100% Canales telling him when he is or isn't throwing to T-Mac and now allowing Bryce to make opposing decisions on those plays based on what he sees.

Nobody is bashing the throws, but trying to say the throws were something other than what they were and using it as the proof that he should be our long term solution is what many of us view as unbearable. Even if those were the two greatest throws in the history of the NFL, 2 throws a game, or even worse, 2 throws every few weeks, is not a sustainable way to build a long term successful team. We're not bashing Bryce to bash Bryce, we point out legitimate concerns we objectively see with our own eyes and project how they might affect our/his future.

There's no question he has a clutch gene to him, but he also as an equally as large, if not larger, "fug up gene" and in the end, that's going to cost us more games than the other wins us.

Multiple people have said in this thread how those weren't dots, but sure, it's just me who can't see it. Nobody is bashing the throw like you seem to think we're doing, we're just pointing out that you're trying to call it something that it just wasn't.

Oh I get what he was saying, but it really was more applicable 2 decades ago than today. In today's game you get last year's Vikings. A team that might put up a good record when the ball bounces their way enough times, but in the end, that QB isn't going to be able to will the team to victories when it's needed and they're going to end up losing badly in the big games when it matters because they're not able to step up when needed. If Stafford doesn't have 2 red zone turnovers and a pick 6, I don't think Bryce is willing the team to victory today in that weather.

Eh, feels more like a chicken or egg discussion to me. Have his downfield throws actually improved or is it that they only allow him to throw it downfield in very specific and few situations to where he can't be making bad throws? We don't ever let him just rip it downfield and put it into tight windows or true deep ball shots. They only let him throw it more than 10 yards downfield when they know the player will/should be running open and he's able to place it where it needs to be.

I genuinely don't think you know what it means to "throw a dot" in football terms. Here's a hint, it's not a 15 yard lofted pass where a player runs underneath it to catch it in stride and continue running. "throwing a dot" can be attributed to numerous throws, but not those. It's throwing a perfect touch pass high and outside on the sideline where a WR is the only one who can make the catch and make a toe tap to complete it. It's where a QB throws a 40-50 yard pass into a perfect spot for the WR to make the catch. Those TD's were well thrown balls, I'm not saying he didn't make a good pass. But in no world were they "dots" like you seem to want to call them. They wouldn't even be considered "dots" if they were thrown in a HS game, sorry, but just the way it is.

#1 overall pick who the players like, period. You can't have the #1 overall pick be a 3 year starter, pick up the 5th year option, and then put him into a competition for the starting spot with a newly signed FA QB for that 4th season. Don't get me wrong, I get it from the fan standpoint and just looking at Bryce objectively without draft or locker room status. But you just can't ignore those things in real life roster management. If you bring in that competition and they play better than Bryce in the pre-season, you have an ugly mess on your hands that can have repercussions for years down the line. Because then you either still start Bryce over the guy who played better, or your then benching your #1 overall pick, a 3 year starter who the players like and have voted as one of their captains. It's Daniel Jones' last year on the Giants but magnified by him being the #1 overall pick who is liked by his teammates better than Jones was.

Oh I totally get it, I kinda called this 3 years ago... Bryce is the picture perfect recipe for putting a team in QB purgatory, and just because there isn't a clear other path to follow right now, doesn't mean we should continue down this one as we also know how that movie ends too. Trying to start over now might bring more hurt than is needed over the next 2-3 years, but it also might (is?) the fastest way to actually getting back to being a true contender in the future. Which I 100% understand is a hard sell to a fanbase so starved for wins like we are, but it's why I was so against Bryce from the jump. This just seemed like the inevitable path everything would go down.

So there's a couple issues with this thinking about the type of QB you need to win games. Those QB's win regular season games, but they do not win you playoff games in this day and age of the NFL. And that's what the anti-Bryce people have been saying for years, he's just never going to be that type of QB who can drag an inferior team to wins because of their QB play. The other is "make 2-3 explosive completions per game" is giving a lot of credit to Bryce for making 2 throws today that literally every single starting QB should be able to make with their eyes closed. He made two well placed lofted throws with no safety help on either of them, that yes, lead to an explosive play, but aren't exactly ones you can objectively say were explosive because of the QB's throw. Also all of your post fails to recognize that in the end, Bryce still didn't "win us this game" as much as Stafford's turnovers cost the Rams the game.

It's because the "Stans" are box score merchants. They see 15/20 for 206 yards and 3 TDs with no INTs and think he just played a near perfect game and should be signed to a $200 million extension because of it. Never mind that he had 3 passes that accounted for 111 of those yards and all the TDs, one of them a screen pass that went for 35 yards and the other two just touched lofted passes (albeit good ones, but nowhere near darts into tight windows like elite QB's are able to make). Yes, he gets credit for the good throws, but extrapolating a small handful of good throws/plays a game to say he's played great games/seasons is the asinine part and what is going to end up screwing us over long term when he's kept around because of the blinders these wins are putting on people

And actually now that I think about it, the only time he didn't throw a lofted downfield pass, so the only time he tried to sling a dot, he almost got T-Mac killed.

He doesn't need to, because it's obvious. We're winning games and in the playoff hunt, for Tepper and this fanbase after how bad we've been for so long, that's always going to be enough at this point. Bryce hasn't earned that extension getting picked up, but when you're in the playoff hunt at this point in the season after how our last decade has been, it's going to get that QB's option picked up almost no matter what. And that's the problem, we're going to screw our long term future because people can't look past wins. And I also have to be clear, this isn't a Bryce bashing post based on today, he did just play one of his better games of the season just by way of not making bad mistakes and by making a couple well placed throws. But having said that, it also need to be pointed out that it's not a recipe for long term sustained success either. It's the recipe for those teams that have random years of hovering around .500 before falling back to earth the next season because the ball isn't bouncing their way every week.

You do realize that none of his downfield completions were him "slinging dots", right?!?! All of the downfield plays were lofted touch passes, which yes, they were well placed throws. But there is a Grand Canyon sized gap between a well placed touch pass and "slinging dots" which would be driven throws into small windows. I'm not bashing Bryce after today because it's not warranted, but let's not start giving him credit for things he wasn't doing because you can't differentiate various types of throws. Just sayin'

Eh, I get what you're saying, but I don't think THAT play call was that. That wasn't a play call that just fooled the defense and caused an easy 4th down conversion, it was Bryce and Coker making a great play to get it done. If you want to give Canales credit on the T-Mac 4th down TD, I wouldn't fight it. And again, no, that has NOTHING to do with that play having been T-Mac and the other wasn't. It was that there were multiple options on that play call for Bryce to find the open guy and make the conversion. The other was a 4th and short and the play call was for an immediate 15+ yard down field throw, which I thought was just moronic.

Said this in another thread last night, but that's a completely unrealistic notion. You can't have a former #1 overall pick who has started for that team since Week 1 of his rookie year (a few weeks aside), pick up his 5th year option, and then still put him in a true competition for the starting spot in year 4. If you're putting him in a true competition, you need to just cut/trade him and move on. It's either his job or it's not at this point, and that is the problem. I said this in a thread before that draft, the worst case scenario is he's too good to flat out cut, but not good enough to actually be the reason for winning and we'll get stuck in QB purgatory with him.