tukafan21

We might not have much of a choice. Josh Allen coming off back to back losses and sitting on that through the bye week, I'm not sure there's any defense in the league that is going to keep the Bills to under 30 points in this situation. It's one of those games where you hope you win the coin toss so you can actually elect to receive. Because if not, very good chance the score is going to be 7-0 before your offense takes the field. The funny thing is looking at the schedule before the season, the Bills should have beaten both the Patriots and Falcons and then spent their bye week looking past us and to the Chiefs the following week.

Win coin toss. Elect to receive. 30 minute opening drive for a score. Recover onside kick to open 2nd Half. 30 minute drive with kneel downs to end the game. Win.

[shows graphic of Baker, Darnold, Jones] Joe Buck, "if you're a fan of one of these teams, you're not going to like this" Well fug you Joe Buck, what if you're a fan of a team that had two of them at the same time and now are stuck with a middle school QB instead?

Back to back losses and the bye week to stew over it, I don't think there is any recipe to beat them this week. And that has basically nothing to do with my thoughts about the Panthers, I'd probably say the same thing if the Bills were playing any one of about 20-25 other teams this week in that scenario.

He's thrown 1,135 passes in the NFL, but here's him doing something in college as proof that he can do the thing he hasn't been able to do in those 1,135 passes yet.

lol nice timing, as I was literally just watching a replay of that play about 2 minutes ago. And I'll be honest, I still don't understand how he got a high ankle sprain from that one. I can see where his toe caught in the ground ever so slightly as he was getting stepped on, but I still don't see how it could have caused a high ankle sprain that would cause him to miss time. So I'll also just say it, if THAT is what causes him to get an injury like that and potentially miss time, it's not bad luck, it's because he's so small and easily injured.

That experience with him could also be why we'd never trade for him as well.

Trading for Wilson would be beyond dumb, and I'm not even talking about anything from a football standpoint. If there is one thing we've done really well this year, is that we've actually turned around the culture in the locker room. No matter what you think about the players or coaches in games, it's undeniable that this is the most up beat and cohesive locker room we've seen since the Cam days. You don't insert someone like Wilson into that. Someone who is more known for being disliked by his teammates than liked by them.

If the team was leaning towards picking up his option before this, then we need to fire everyone right now, not tomorrow, not after the season, but today. I don't care if you think he still has it in him to turn into a quality QB, that's a totally separate discussion to what he's actually done on the field. And he hasn't done a single thing on the field to warrant leaning in that direction yet. You don't pay $27 million dollars for that, it's just crazy. At best you can say he's done enough to warrant starting the rest of the season to make that determination, and even that I don't agree with, I think he's done enough to prove he's not the guy and the decision should already be made not to pick it up, even if you bring him back next year (which I also don't want to do but that's besides the point here).

I don't think people are saying we're 1 player away from being a contender. I do though think it's a very legitimate statement to say, "we're 1 player away from this team looking like they're moving in the right direction and have a chance to get into contention in the next few years" As I don't think we're 1 player away from contention, not even close, still need holes to fill (or young players to get better in the coming years) on defense before we can ever enter that conversation. But if we had a legitimate QB who could be our long term solution, I think we'd be passing the eye test of a team on the rise, not looking like we do now, and that's of a middling team who is squeaking by wins against some of the worst teams in the league.

This is the only correct answer when you have two RBs who are so similar. Realistically splitting RB carries only works when they're different enough that the swapping of them changes what the defense wants to do against them. Rico and Chuba are just too similar, neither are the quick twitch make you miss and run away from them type of RB. So when we sub them for each other, the defense doesn't need to make any personnel or scheme adjustments.

Sure, all fair points that can't be argued against. But not a single one of them changes his arm strength problem. And pointing to a Heisman trophy winner being able to throw the ball a max of 60 air yards in college, isn't exactly helping your case about him having average arm strength. He was college great and had college adequate arm strength, but that doesn't cut it in the NFL, not by a long shot.

But that's not what we're talking about, nor what you said earlier. You said he "has an average to below average arm strength" which in itself is an extremely disingenuous argument to make for a starting QB if in your head, you're comparing him to all draft eligible QB's (which even then, I'm still not sure it would be accurate anyways, but that's beyond the point). We're not talking about whether or not Bryce is good enough (or if just his arm is good enough) to be a backup or practice squad QB. We're discussing the merits of him being our starting QB of the future, so by nature, comparing him to anything other than the other starting QB's is just asinine. I'd bet my life savings, that if you ranked every QB over the last 5 years to attempt to make an NFL roster, Bryce would not crack the 80th percentile of arm strength, and that still might be generous of me to say he could be that high up the list. You keep pointing to him throwing the ball 50-60 yards in college. Well I hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure there is any starting QB in college who can't throw the ball that far when they have perfect balance and can step into a throw, that's basically the bare minimum requirement at that level. And I'm not saying this to say Bryce is the worst QB in the history of the game of football. He does have certain things that he does well, and I do think he'd be a more than serviceable backup and the type of guy who can bounce around year to year as a gap year starter at times. But objectively, he has one of the weakest arms of any starting QB in recent memory, that's not really debatable.

Also hard to throw INTs when most of your incompletions end up landing in the dirt before even reaching the WR or DB

And Joe Milton would be an MVP candidate this year, not the Cowboys backup QB. The argument is pretty simple, does Bryce have a strong enough arm to be a successful starting QB in this league. And the answer is even simpler... No. Anything else doesn't matter, he's just flat out proven that he can't make the minimum required throws at a high enough level to be even an average starting QB, let alone anything better than that.

And poo... now that I think about it, you're trying to say he has "average or slightly below average arm strength" but saying that in comparison to the what, 90ish QB's currently on a roster or practice squad right now? So your argument FOR our QB is that he has about the 45-60ish strongest arm in the NFL and you think that's a winning argument in support of Bryce? And actually, you're really comparing him to draft profiles, which by your definition would then also include all the guys who can't make rosters or even practice squads. So really, you're saying because he has an average to below average arm strength of all the players who tried to make it in the NFL in recent memory, he has a strong enough arm to be a successful starting QB in this league. again, I have to say it, JFC

He's 10th in the league in pass attempts. How we're running has absolutely zero bearing on him having the 10th most pass attempts in the league but being literally last in the NFL in passing yards (among QB's who have started all 7 weeks). If this was Delhomme era Panthers, where we were also one of the lowest ranked teams in passes attempted, you'd have a legitimate case there, but that's the furthest thing from the case here.

If there were handfuls of backup QB's who were good enough to be starters in this league, then you'd have an argument on your hands. But when there are current starting QB's who aren't even good enough to actually be starting QB's in this league, you can't then compare a supposed to be franchise QB to those back-ups. QB is the most unique position in all of sports, by a very very wide margin. Trying to compare your starting QB to the backups as a selling point for said starting QB is such a crazy notion that it hurts my brain to think how anyone could honestly think that's the case. It basically would be like comparing a MLB player to the "average professional baseball player" and looking at all minor leaguers in that as well. Saying Bryce has an "average arm" when he's literally likely ranked 32nd out of the 32 starting QB's in arm strength is ceratinly some hill to die on.

And Bryce's 2nd and 3rd best passing yardage marks this year is 199 and 198 yards. Which in itself, is such a sad statistic. Take away his 328 yard game and he's averaging 160 yards per game this season. And for those who hate when you exclude specific games/things from stats, if you remove his high and low mark this season, he's still only averaging 168 yards per game. That's your #1 overall pick in his 3rd season ladies and gentleman. How is there actually people arguing that he can still be a good starting QB in this league, it's freaking nuts.

No, just flat out, no. I’m not even sure that’s accurate for any position in the NFL when you’re grading out 1st round prospects. But even more so when you’re evaluating a QB. If you think any team or evaluator is comparing QB’s you’re drafting to be a starter, to backups and 3rd stringers, then I honestly don’t even know how to respond to that. I’ve heard lots of crazy arguments on message boards, but that would take the cake, by a very wide margin. You’re literally comparing the skill sets of the most important position in all of the sporting world, to guys who can go a decade long career and never throw a meaningful pass in a game.

Of the regular starting QB's since 2000, there might be an argument to be made that Stafford and Rodgers were the two biggest arms in the league during that time. I'm sure there are others that belong in the conversation, and they might not actually be 1-2, but I don't think either would fall out of the Top 5 strongest arms during that time. (admittedly, this is also just a pure gut feel without trying to think back through all the starting QB's during that time frame, but I don't think it's all that off base either)

Even beyond Rodgers and Stafford being HOF level players, the two of them (and Flacco) always ranked near (or at) the top of the list for arm strength throughout their careers, they all had cannons. Dalton didn't have a noodle arm, but he never had an arm like those 3, so even if they've diminished over age, so did Dalton.

Oh, and to add to this... What makes this even crazier is that when you include all those backups, odds are, it still doesn't even give him an "average arm strength" in the NFL. As a lot of NFL backups actually have very strong arms, it's the rest of their game, such as mental side or accuracy, as to why they aren't a starter. It's their strong arm that keeps them on rosters as it makes them good practice squad QB's and then if the starter goes down, at least they have someone who can still sling the rock physically at an NFL level, even if their accuracy and decision making isn't up to par.

So you want to compare Bryce's arm to the backup and 3rd string QB's in the league while using that basis for why he can be a successful starting QB in this league? Do you not realize how crazy that is to say? We're not debating our backup QB's arm strength, we're talking about the starting QB and #1 overall pick. You don't compare that to backups and practice squad 3rd string QB's. Trying to say "average" means including those is quite literally one of the most nonsensical stances I've ever heard when debating an athletes merits. It's like trying to compare a starting NBA SG's 3 point shooting to every player in the league, going to the 15 man deep rosters of guys who bounce around in the G-League, and saying that player is an "average 3 point shooter" for someone who starts and plays 30 minutes a game. Because sure, by definition, that player likely would be an "average 3 point shooter" when you're adding in the skills of backup forwards and the like. But in no world is that same player an actual average 3 point shooter for an NBA starter.

And point being? I've never one time said he was a good QB or would help us win games, in fact, I've quite literally said he costs his teams games. But none of that means anything when I've lobbied for him solely due to his arm strength and his fearlessness in throwing any pass (which is also what makes him a bad actual QB), as those things will 100% help expedite the improvement of all of our pass catchers.