tukafan21

Not enough to make it worth it as they’d still need to move up again. Cant see how they’d make it worth our while when they’re only 4 spots behind us already, they’d be better off just loading up an offer to move all the way up to where they need to get

I hate the majority of things at the combine, even some of the actual football drills. The NFL combine would be like the NHL testing draft prospects while they're wearing sneakers and on a hardwood floor. Or the NBA holding their combine on carpet and the players compete barefoot. Even things like the QB's throwing, just isn't the same as throwing without shoulder pads isn't the same as throwing with them on. The NFL combine should be in full pads and the drills should better represent what a player needs to do in games, even some of the shuttles/cones drills aren't really football moves as much as a way to judge some foot speed and cutting ability in a vacuum, but not doing it in an "on field football way" I'd rather see them test players based on positions, so like for WRs, time them needing to run a 15 yard out from one hash to the opposite sideline. Or have them run a "40 yard dash" that has them run 10 yards straight and then on a 45 degree angle for the remaining 30 yards as if they're running a flag or post route. Then the opposite for DB's, they need to run backwards for 10 yards and then turn for a sprint over the final 30 and that is the "DB 40 yard dash." For RB's, make them chop their steps 5 times and then see how long it takes them to then run 10 yards or something that more mocks them waiting on a handoff and then hitting the hole. Yes, I realize that's not going to happen, but I think things like that would be much more beneficial to judging how timed things would translate to the field.

Really, at this point, the only reason to ever put stock in a 40 time is if someone who is supposed to run say a 4.5, runs in the 4.7 range or something awful like that, it would be a bit of a red flag. Because like you said, it's really about the start you get, which for some players who never ran track and thus never worked on that start until they are done with college and to get ready for the combine, can really hurt their time and make it not accurately comparable to their actual in game speed. And even beyond that, they're out there running it in essentially underwear these days, which again, running in a dead straight line in underwear does nothing to translate to the game when they're in full pads running routes with defenders out there. And that's my point, not that speed doesn't matter, but in game speed on tape is FAR more relevant to evaluating a player than their combine 40 time is. If the 40 yard dash wasn't the most known and visible element of the combine, I really think it would have been eliminated by now.

I think the NFL would do everything in their power to try and convince Jerry not to hire Deion for this exact reason. If you have a QB prospect that many think should be drafted in the Top 3, tell teams he will refuse to play for them if they draft him, because his dad was just named HC of a team drafting #12 and they strong-arm teams into not drafting him so he falls to his dad's team, it's going to create an ugly situation for the league to deal with. Yes, I realize it would be a pretty unique and one off situation, but if/when it works, what would stop players from starting to do the same and refuse to meet with and/or play for teams they just don't want to play for? Especially with NIL these days and many of the top QB's coming into the league already as millionaires, it will give them even more ability to say they are willing to sit out a year to re-enter the draft than play for a team they don't want to go to. All it takes is for it to work one time, and then the next player to try it will make teams too afraid to draft them and risk losing out on their 1st draft pick for the year.

You're right, he doesn't play at 4.59 40 yard dash speed, he plays faster than it I honestly wonder what people are watching when they say he looks slow, almost every breakdown of him actually calls out his speed and how it's unexpectedly good for a player of his size. Too many people confuse "speed" with "short area quickness" Because yes, short area quickness is his biggest negative, but again, 6'5" WR's just don't have that kind of speed. It would be like Bucs fans being upset that Mike Evans doesn't have track speed.

The point is .06 seconds of a difference in a 40 yard dash has essentially zero bearing on in game NFL speed. I didn't say speed doesn't matter, but if you watch his tape and think his top end speed is slow, then you just want to see that and are kidding yourself. Yes, he takes a few strides to really get up to full speed, but that's just something that comes with a player of his size, again, he's never going to be as quick as a 6' guy like some of you seem to think is needed to be a successful WR.

In no world would the Eagles give us Brown for our 2nd when there 100% would be teams out there who would give them their 1st for him. He turns 28 soon and just signed an extension through his prime, someone like the Chargers would absolutely give them their 1st this year for him. And even if not that, I could see the Patriots giving them their 2nd which would be well before ours, or a whole bunch of other teams who need WR help, that Rams 2nd is going to be late.

Sure, everyone gets their turn, and when the teams pay guys like Higgins, Top 5 money, they generally end up being overpays because while they're really good, they just don't provide the ROI on that contract. It's nothing against Higgins, I like the player, but with his injury history, Chase always taking the main attention, having Burrow as his QB, and the lack of top WR FA's, it has all the markings of being a bad signing compared to whatever he's going to get. The Patriots with all their cap room could give him a Top 3 WR contract and he plays really well for them, and it still be an overpay in the end.

Maybe, but the QB needy teams know they aren't going to be great next year anyways. I'd rather go with a Jameis or sign Cousins once he's cut and just draft someone in a better QB draft next year, than possibly waste a 2nd round pick on a guy who may never be a starting QB in this league.

I couldn't see him being drafted in even the 2nd round this year, and 3rd rounders get a 4 year contract for $5.5-6 million. With how much NIL the top QB's can get as transfers, I'd have to think someone like him could get at least 2, if not 3 million for just next season. As long as he doesn't poo the bed, he's still likely a 3/4 round pick anyways, with the potential to work his way into the 1st or 2nd which would then get him a bigger contract as well. Now if he's being told he won't fall past the 2nd, then sure, maybe it makes more sense, but I'd be surprised if that's what he's hearing and will end up happening.

Given the available options in FA this year, Higgins is likely going to end up getting a Top 5 WR money type of contract in the end. You don't think that will be an overpay? He's good, but he's not even Top 10 WR good, let alone Top 5

So many of those "test off the chart at the combine" type of guys end up just physical freaks who never pan out though. I'm not saying that's the case for him, but in general, I hate going after guys who fly up draft boards because of the combine, tape speaks for itself.

For as much as the Raiders don't make any sense for Ben Johnson, I kinda get it if he's being sold by Brady on "I'm Tom Brady, you know I'm going to find a way to succeed, we know we're a mess, come join me and a new GM and we're going to build it up right so you know your job is secure for a while at the same time" If that's what they're selling him, it probably gives him at minimum 3 years as HC, if not 4, no matter how badly it goes during that time, because they're selling him on letting him build up the team from the ground up how he sees fit. In today's coaching landscape, for a 38 year old first time HC, getting that kind of assurance and having Brady in your corner, probably is quite appealing.

LOLOLOL I will make any bet that anyone wants that he runs 4.59 or under. Anyone who actually thinks he's running a 4.6 or higher has clearly never watched him play, that's absolute nonsense.

Said this last night in the Bryce thread, but he's also the perfect pairing for what Bryce does well (and doesn't). The biggest negative people on here have towards him is his top end speed. Well, Bryce doesn't have the arm to take advantage of that type of player anyways, Bryce doesn't have the "throw the ball past the defense and let a Tryeek type run it down" type of arm. Bryce has the "heave it 50-60 yards for a jump ball" type of arm, which again, is PERFECT for what T-Mac does best, and that's make contested catches down the field by high pointing the ball before the defender can break it up. What Bryce also does well have is having the ability to put touch on the ball to place it where he wants, which is a perfect fit for T-Mac and his size. Bryce would be great at placing the ball high and towards the sideline where no defender is going to have a chance at making a play on the ball given T-Mac's height and catch radius. Combine it with his vice grip hands and it's a great fit with the two of them. Bryce also doesn't have the rifle for an arm that will zip a ball into a tight window and get to the WR before a DB can get in there to challenge the play. Which again, is exactly what T-Mac is great at, he's so good at making catches in traffic while he's getting hit, because he has that big body and catches the ball with his hands out away from his body and the defender's contact. People get too hung up on what T-Mac doesn't have in the speed and quick twitch type of game that the Jefferson and Chase type of WRs have. They don't look enough at what he excels at and how it brings something else to the table that 99% of WR's just can't because they don't have the height and subsequent catch radius that T-Mac has. T-Mac is a faster Mike Evans with a slightly less physicality to his game because Evans is a good 20 lbs bigger. It's why I always compared him to AJ Green, that's who's game I've always seen when watching T-Mac.

I'm surprised Ewers is entering the draft instead of getting a huge NIL payday to transfer somewhere else next year. I'd have to imagine he'd pull in a few million as a transfer, which basically would be how much he'd get on a full mid round pick rookie contract, while also maybe having a good season and working his way into a higher draft pick.

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched nearly enough of T-Mac other than a few short highlight clips to know his game. The only thing he doesn't have is the short area quickness in the way that you're looking for, as you seem to want that Jefferson/Chase type of WR, which sure, he's not that. But him and XL are nothing alike, let alone having the same strengths and weaknesses. In particular, T-Mac's #1 strength is LITERALLY XL's #1 weakness, their hands. T-Mac has vice grips for hands, catches darn near everything, and does it all with hands catches, the opposite of XL. Beyond that, you mention prioritizing route running, of which, T-Mac already runs a complete NFL route tree at a high level. Yes, he needs to work on his get off the line at the snap and get a little crisper on some of his cuts to create separation, but again, all players need to work on something, that's just what his is. It doesn't change that he is already a great route runner, there are just some small elements of it that he can improve on. Even then, it's like I've been saying, the trade off of not having that true elite separation like the smaller WR's get, is how good he is at using his body to keep the DB's from being able to break up passes and just making contested catches in general. You lose a little bit of separation, but his 6'5" body gives him advantages that the smaller WRs just don't have. Again, your post here insinuates that T-Mac is a slow, plodding big WR who isn't a proficient route runner, which couldn't be further from the truth. I have no issue with people wanting other players over T-Mac, or just not wanting him at all. But they need to be logical reasons, not made up ones in your head because you don't actually know the player and his abilities.

Straight line running speed in a 40 has no bearing on route separation other than straight go routes, and even then, running a 40 isn't running in football games in a pads. AND... if THAT is your concern with T-Mac, then you might as well take him off your draft board, because he's not a go-route guy that is going to run past and separate from the DB. The deep ball is his specialty, but not because he out runs the DB's, it's because he high points the ball and can make those catches over defenders before they even have a chance to break it up.

Honest question... why? What difference does him running a 4.49 vs a 4.55, in underwear and is largely dependent on your ability to get out of the blocks quickly make compared to watching his tape? You can watch his tape and see his game speed, you can see him take screens or slants and out run defenders to the corner, you can see him just run away from players once he gets going. He's 6'5", he's not a quick twitch speedster in those first few steps off the line like a Jefferson, Chase, Nabers. But once he gets going a bit, he has more than enough speed, you can see it in his film. If people ONLY want a #1 WR in the mold of one of those guys, then no, you're never going to be satisfied by T-Mac's speed or even game, because he's 6'5", not 6' tall. He can't do those things that they do, but they can't do the things he can because of his size, he will be able to make catches they wouldn't have a chance on. Yes we need a speedster WR too, but I think T-Mac as the #1 and finding that elite speed in a small slot WR is the better path. I think he runs sub 4.5 because I've seen his game speed, but with his size if he's slow getting out of the crouch and first few steps, so maybe not. It's why I've never understood people looking at the 40 time so seriously for the draft, there is nothing about it that directly translates to the field unless you're main feature is being that go-route specialist.

All of this is also why I think T-Mac should be the overall #1 player on our board this year. People like to say he doesn't have "take the top off" type of speed, well Bryce doesn't have the arm to take advantage of that type of player either, he can't out throw the defense like that and let the Tyreek type catch up to it. Bryce has the "heave to get it 60 yards for a jump ball" type of arm, exactly the type of pass that is T-Mac's specialty and literally what he is best at as a WR. Bryce doesn't have the zip it into a tight window arm, but he has the touch to put the ball where he wants to. Like when you have a 6'5" WR with a stupid catch radius and vice grips for hands so you put some air under it and put it where only he can reach instead of forcing it into a window. If you want to help Bryce succeed, you draft him if he's there, no matter who else is on the board.

I don't need my QB to have arm talent for me to like them, but I do put a lot of weight to how it can affect that player's max potential when it's as bad as Bryce's is, particularly when combined with his overall size. Even the most ardent Bryce supporters can't honestly deny that Bryce is likely to have the weakest arm of all starting QB's his entire career, maybe some year's he's only in the Bottom 5, but short of pumping steroids, that's never going to change. I'm not a historian of the league on QB's arm strength compared to others, but how many players with that weak of an arm compared to the rest of the league, also was an above average QB for a sustained period of time? I know Brees didn't have a great arm and that's the comparison people like to use for Bryce, but again, he's smaller and weaker armed than even Brees was, and Brees is one of the biggest outliers in NFL history as is. Which is why Bryce was also betting on him becoming THE biggest outlier in league history at the position. Bryce doesn't need to become any certain type of QB for me to like him or to be considered a success. But he does need to become a QB who raises the play of your team, who can drag you to wins when needed, and has you as a contender in more years than not (all teams have down years, but the great QB's have their teams winning playoff games more years than not). It's why I didn't want to draft Bryce, because I just never did, and still don't, think he has that potential in him for a long period of time and at a high level. Can we put the perfect team around him and we get the right schedule in any given year for a player like him to lead us to a high seed and maybe make a run, sure of course. But those teams don't have sustained success because it takes the perfect combination of rookie contracts and lucky picks/signings that all pan out at the right time. They have a great regular season, flame out in the playoffs, and then go back to being that team that either just misses the playoffs or just makes it in to lose in the first round every year. Picking in the 13-20 range every year, always missing out on the true elite talent in the draft but still not contending. Is that who fans want us to become? I know it's better than what we've been for a while, but I want better for my team, I love our Panthers and I want us to win the Super Bowl. Prove me wrong, I want to be wrong, I don't want to be stuck in NFL purgatory, I don't want to need to have to find a new QB in 2 or 3 years because we still can't get into the playoffs. But I am who I am, and I am someone who doesn't keep his team colored glasses on at all times to only looks at the positive, I look at realities and call them how I see them. And I see Bryce as our path to NFL purgatory at best right now and it scares the living hell out of me. Bryce, prove me wrong.

The problem is that A LOT of people here haven't been saying this, they've been saying these last 10 games have proved he's the player the team thought they were drafting and are completely confident that we've found our long term QB solution. I think people pointing to the KC and Eagles games as proof of his play are just sticking their heads in the sand when it comes to elite teams overlooking games that they consider easy wins, like we were to those two legit SB caliber teams. You can not believe that's a thing if you want, and yes, sometimes those great teams blow the doors off the bad teams (like the Lions did a few times this year), but there is a LONG history of those being closer than they should be games because the better team was looking ahead. And again, my biggest fear with Bryce isn't that he'll be a complete bust. It's that he's going to become that 23rd best QB in the league and we get stuck in NFL purgatory for the next decade. To me... THAT is not finding your long term franchise QB, that's just taking shots to your nuts every season and coming back for more.

Again, #1 flaw in your post is you're trying to compare Bryce's last 10 games vs the rest of the league's 17 game averages (for the 2 TD stat). As like I pointed out, Nix falls below your 2 TD a game average number, but over his last 10 games he's actually at 2.5 per game. If you pull the best 10 game stretch for all QB's this year, I'd be quite confident in saying Bryce is NOT in the top 16. You don't want to remove the one (or two) best games from Bryce's averages but you want to include up to the 7 worst games from other QB's you're comparing him to. And the reason I picked Goff was because he was so close to the 2 TD per game number over the course of the season. Hence why I then did his best 10 game stretch to give a better comparison to your Bryce number, which again, he came in at 2.6 TDs per game. If you want to use Bryce's 10 game numbers, you need to do equal comparisons for everyone else as well. It all also again just ignores that this magical 2 TD per game number you like to point out is only the case because of 20% of the games in the stretch you're talking about, if not for that, it's significantly less.

All fair, but also see the post I just made at the same time you did this one. I think people are reading too much into my "anti Bryce" posts as, "he sucks and he's still going to be the worst QB ever." That's not the case, I'm just pushing back on this narrative over the past few weeks of, "we've found our franchise QB" as I still just don't see it. My biggest issue with him is his arm. There are a lot of pretty standard throws that he just can't make, at least not to the level that even an above average NFL QB can make. In particular it's the throws you have to drive into a small window, key word there being "drive" and not "place." As yes, I'll give him credit, he does have some nice touch to get the ball into some smaller windows. But I'm talking about that 20 yard curl route in the seam where you have a safety over the top, linebacker underneath, corner closing on the WR, and he needs to fire it in there before any can step in the path for an INT or just break it up. Or even that 15 yard out route on the opposite hash that he can't loft over there but needs to drive it in there. He just doesn't have THAT kind of arm, and in today's game, with how much better corners are getting, it's something you need to have in your bag if you want to be an above average QB. Especially when you're Bryce with the rest of his physical limitations that the has, such as his deep ball, which is easily the worst amongst starting QB's.

I also need to reiterate that nothing I've said means I'm rooting for him to fail, when he's our starting QB come week 1 next year, I'm 100% rooting for him to have an MVP season and show he can be our franchise QB, as that would be what is best for this franchise. I just don't see it happening Sure, I no longer think he's the biggest bust in NFL history who shouldn't even be on a roster like I did after last year and the start of this one. I'll give him that credit, that he's turned it around and shown me more than enough to say that's no longer the case. But even after his turnaround, I'm now back to, at best, my pre-draft evaluation of him as someone who will end up in that "20-25th best QB in the league" category. Which unfortunately in today's NFL is purgatory, that's someone probably too good for a team to ever let walk in free agency but not good enough to ever truly have you be in SB contention. Honestly, his peak potential for me is probably a Sam Darnold this year, someone who has a beneficial schedule so you put up a good record, but in the end, never really stood a chance at this time of the year. Because in the end, his physical abilities and limitations are always going to be a hinderance for him at this level. It's like I said before we drafted him, Bryce needs to be the literal biggest outlier in the history of the NFL to end up being successful.