tukafan21

Show me one time that I specifically said YOU have said he'll play both sides of the ball in the NFL. I keep saying that "people" as in the general term, keep talking about taking him in the draft and then gushing about his two way ability in college, which by the way is 100% something you have done on many occasions by the way. And I just keep reiterating that people (again, the general term, not talking about any one person in particular) need to stop talking about his 2 way ability when talking about him as a draft prospect, it's completely irrelevant. If you want to gush about his college play and/or Heisman chances, then sure, go ahead, that is 100% warranted and I've said as much many times, as he is a generational collegiate talent, no question about that. You have also said on numerous occasions that you'd take him over T-Mac for either side of the ball, which again, I keep giving extremely valid reasons why that would be a terrible decision if he's going to be a WR. In fact, the only time I specifically mentioned you in this discussion was in regards to my post NOT being about bashing Hunter the college player or general draft prospect, since you are the person who has numerous times "called me out" for bashing him and saying you don't understand why I would do that. The only confusion is that you seem to confuse the difference between bashing a player and giving pros/cons as to their NFL prospects at a specific position. Saying someone is a likely Top 10 pick on one side of the ball and still a 1st rounder on the other side, but the 2nd or 3rd best prospect at one of those positions is anything but bashing, it's giving supreme credit to the player, but acknowledging some issues for him at the next level on one of those sides of the ball.

Oh I think you'd be doing your team a disservice if you drafted him as a CB and then never use him on offense. But you're using him in one of 3 ways, jet sweeps, bubble screens, and go routes, and doing so at the very most 10 times a game if absolutely needed in a close game, but more than likely no more than 5 and some games not at all when he's shadowing an elite WR and you don't want to risk injury or fatigue on gadget plays. Basically just put the ball in his hands and see if his athleticism can break a big play. You're not going to have him running any kind of route tree because any time he spends working on that is time not spend working on his true CB position. Any other route requires hours upon hours of practicing with your QB to get timing down, asking someone to go out there and run a nuanced pattern without proper practice is just asking for interceptions to be thrown.

Well there's a few issues with this..... First is that he's still saying he is going to be a full time 2 way player in the NFL, if he is still adamant about that come pre-draft interviews, then he's 100% off my draft board at either position. As to me, that screams he's not serious about being as good of a player as he can be, that he's more about style than substance. Those are the things that may seem minor, but they can tell you all you need to know about a player and his true motivation, that would be a massive red flag to me if he's still insisting on that come pre-draft process. Second, unless he tells every team that he doesn't care and they can choose which side of the ball he will play at, which seems extremely unlikely, then yes, he will 100% decide what position he plays in the NFL. This isn't the case of a great college QB who probably can't play the position in the NFL and a team drafts him in the 5th round saying they drafted him as a WR. And that's for a few reasons. 1. You don't want him to start his career being upset because a team is forcing him to play on the side of the ball he doesn't want to play on. Remember, career length and possible contracts are 100% factors in his case, as he has a much higher contract potential as a WR, but given his body type, he has a much better chance at having a longer and healthier career as a CB. You can't leave that decision up to the team, it's got to be his choice given the money these guys stand to make these days. 2. Whatever position he starts his career off at, is the side of the ball he'll play his whole career unless he is looking like a bust there. Not even a bad agent is allowing whichever team that drafts him to dictate his career path in that way. Case and point would be Devin Hester, the Bears drafted him to be a DB who returned kicks and might get a few offensive snaps. But it was clear to them after his rookie season that he just wasn't going to be a great DB so they switched him to being a WR. That's a whole lot easier to do and sell to the fan base than a Top 10 pick who would be looking like a bust who needed to change positions. 3. Since he won't be a 2 way player in the NFL, he'll need to train one side of the ball to prepare for the draft and his rookie season, which begins just days after the draft with rookie mini camp. He can't waste those 4-5 months doing generic training that isn't specific to a position, and doing both sides of the ball just wouldn't be a good use of his time. Which if he did do that, it leads me back to my first point about him, it would show that he'd rather be known for being the first full time 2 way player in the NFL in decades than being a possibly elite player in the league. Now, maybe he'll publicly say he's open to playing either position so he can sound like a "team player", but in reality, his agent and/or himself, will be telling teams what position he will be playing, and if they don't want him at that position, they won't be drafting him as that would be a real bad way to start off with a early draft pick.

I honestly don't know what is so confusing, it's really not that hard Generational collegiate talent - Yes Great to Elite CB prospect - Yes Great to Elite WR prospect - No Very good to Great WR prospect - Yes Full time 2-Way NFL Player - NOT IN A FREAKING MILLION YEARS The majority of people on this board who talk about drafting Hunter talk about his 2 way play or him as a WR. Well, one of those things just isn't happening so people need to stop talking about it when discussing his draft prospects. If you want to talk about his college impact and Heisman hype, then sure, talk about his 2 way play until you're blue in the face, that's totally fair and valid. The other I just very strongly disagree with, at least in comparison to the other WR option at the top of the draft, they're not equal WR prospects, T-Mac has a significantly higher upside as an NFL WR and there shouldn't even be a discussion at who to take if we want a WR and both are available at the pick. So I don't get frustrated at people bringing him up, I get frustrated at people bringing him up to only talk about him as a 2 way player and/or WR at the next level, because he just flat out is NOT an elite prospect for either of those things. And I've told you this before, if you can't understand the difference between those things, then it's a you problem, not a me problem, sorry.

Ugh, here we go again. People need to stop falling for the Heisman/College hype and thinking he'll have the same type of impact in the NFL, because he won't (and side note, he's probably not even the Heisman favorite anymore, the kid from Boise State is going to put up numbers that are too good to not give him the award). Let's get this out of the way first, he will NOT be a full time 2 way player in the NFL, it's just not possible. He can either be a full time WR or a full time CB who then gets maybe 5-10 snaps on offense a game to see if he can break off a big play. Once you remove the two way factor from him, he's just a great CB prospect and a very good WR prospect, but he's not a generational prospect on either side of the ball on it's own. If he decides to be a full time CB, I'm not against drafting him because it's a need. But if he decides to be a WR, there is no circumstance where he can be taken over T-Mac. He'll be more of a slot WR in the NFL due to his size, particularly his slim frame. T-Mac on the other hand is a true elite outside WR prospect, and those just don't grow on trees, there's only a small handful of players in the NFL with his size, hands, and speed/agility combination. To me, that's the differentiator when comparing Hunter to T-Mac as a WR. If he was a plodding big WR, like Kelvin Benjamin was, it obviously changes things, but he's not, he has more than enough speed and agility to his game that when combined with his 6'5" frame, it's a no brainer for me, he's going to be WR #1 on every team's board. For Hunter, there is nothing wrong with being a true generational collegiate talent and just a very good to great NFL prospect, and being able to separate the two when evaluating him for the NFL is very important. I'm not bashing him (looking at you Cam), but I'm just being realistic about what he will be in the NFL, which is a potential Top 10 CB, but not a Top 10 WR, but like one of the best #2 guys in the NFL or a mid to low end #1

Tepper can't fire Canales after this year, he has no choice but to give him at least 2 full seasons after firing coaches mid season each of the last 2. If he fires Canales after 1 year, we won't get any qualified HC candidate interest in the job. Honestly, anyone with legitimate current HC aspirations wouldn't be interested after that. It's yet another reason I'm already willing to punt on next season and just play for the #1 pick. Then you bring in a new HC with the #1 pick for a QB to help bring in someone good and you let them do whatever they want to do with the pick and roster, what we should have done many times over the years.

That's not a crazy thought, it's just a bad one, Jones is a replacement level starter in this league, he's never going to be a guy you contend with, not worth going that route again. My crazy thought would be to draft T-Mac in the 1st to give us a stud outside WR and then call up the Lions and trade for Hooker. They took him before Goff really showed he's their QB for the forceable future and I could see them being open to trading Hooker. I was intrigued with him before we made the trade up to #1 and he's probably gotten some great coaching from Ben Johnson as well, I'd be very interested in trading for him to start him all year. It either works out and we have our new starting QB moving forward or it blows up in our faces and we end up with a Top 5 pick in a QB loaded draft.

Just saw The Athletic's latest mock has T-Mac going #6 and then we take Burden at #7 I honestly think I'd cry if he gets taken one pick before us and then we also end up taking a WR as well, worst case scenario. And I thought I was mad when Sewell got taken by the Lions one pick before us a few years back, this would dwarf that feeling if it happened, haha

Ugh, that was a T-Mac TD with a better throw, still almost made an impressive one handed catch at full speed, but at the back of the end zone, that would have been real tough to make.

Time to watch the Panthers 2025 1st Round pick in Tetairoa McMillan on Fox

Johnson is going to be 29 going into next season and I can't see us having our QB situation figured out and also re-stock an entire defense to be a contender in the next 2 seasons while he'll still be in his prime. That money would be much better spent on younger free agents on defense and then use our 1st Rounder on a true outside #1 WR (hello T-Mac) to have him and Legette under rookie contracts for the next 4-5 years while we build the rest of the team and figure out the QB. True stud #1 WRs generally don't become available through FA and rarely by trade, but usually need at least a 1st to get them. The best way to get those game changing WRs is to draft them in the first, let's do it back to back years and get a nice young pairing on the outside. I'm probably taking a 2nd from them for him if offered, even if it's 64, that's a good player right there. And I said in a thread yesterday that we should be calling them up for Thielen, I could see them giving up a 3rd for him if they can't get anything better. I think he'd be a really nice fit with Mahomes and all the other speed they already have there and be a nice compliment from the slot and finding openings in the defense where Mahomes will always find him in a pinch. Thielen and Kelce in the slot on each side with their speed WRs on the outside would be dangerous for Mahomes

I said it a couple weeks ago, but I really don't think they would for a couple reasons. The first is they did that with the Chargers not because they were a mess at the time, but because their owner had a long history of being cheap and didn't care about actually winning as long as he was making money. For all of Tepper's faults and missteps so far, nobody can say he's cheap and nobody can say he just wants to make money and doesn't care about winning, it's the exact opposite. You can be sure that wherever Arch ends up, the Manning family will become close with the organization and help make sure things are done in a way they are happy with. I don't think they'd be scared off by Tepper's past as they'd look at his willingness to spend money and desire to win as positives that they could use to their advantage for Arch's career. The other is that I can't see a QB doing what Eli did in today's media age. Look at the reaction that came from false rumors about Caleb demanding the Bears trade the pick or not take him. They weren't true but people still went nuts about it calling him a diva and attacking him, imagine if he actually followed through with it in the way Eli did with the Chargers, social media would crucify him. The Manning clan are way to media savvy these days to let Arch start off his career that way and be a villain in so many people's eyes before he's even drafted. If the Manning's didn't want him playing for the Panthers and we have the #1 pick in 2026, they'd pull a Luck, not an Eli, and he'll just return to school for another season and make a ton of NIL money to do so.

We should be calling up the Chiefs tonight and seeing how much they'll give up for Thielen. He's not part of our future and still out at least 3 more games and they are going to be desperate to get WR help. Someone like Thielen could be a huge weapon for Mahomes and be a steady slot presence for them opposite Kelce. Can't see the Raiders trading Adams in the division to them, and couldn't see the Bengals giving them Higgins at any point either. Not sure who else at WR could be on the market before the deadline and be a better option for them, maybe Hopkins, but honestly think Thielen could be better for KC as he's a good compliment to the speed they have. I could see them giving us a 3rd for him as they clearly want to get that 3-peat, which would give us good prospect in the draft or help to move up at some point. Maybe we could even get a 2nd if we sent back like a 4th or 5th (that seems more like a long shot, but if he's the best WR option for them, it might be worth it to them).

Screw the T-Mac vs Hunter debate, we need to draft Arizona's kicker in the 6th or 7th, good lord he has a monster leg

Never would have thought that my Panthers forum is going to be WILD for the Colorado @ Arizona game in 3 weeks LOL Hunter covering T-Mac might melt Cam's mind (we won't mention the stats from last year's matchup when T-Mac had 9 catches for 107 and a TD with Hunter on him most of the game, including the TD catch he had on him)

100%, but that's why I take T-Mac Do you think the Vikings and Darnold would look as good as they have without Jefferson? I'm not saying T-Mac will be Jefferson and the literal best WR in the game and doing things nobody has seen before, but it shows what a true elite WR can do for a team. If we get the #1 pick and can't find anyone to trade back with, I'm still taking T-Mac (yea, maybe that's where my Arizona bias shows, but still, I think he has that kind of potential where even if we took him #1, when people look back 5 years later it will look like the right call).

Sure, but you can solve the #1 WR spot for the next 4 years on a rookie contract and then hopefully a Top 10 WR in the league for the next 6-8 years after that by taking T-Mac. In today's game, as important as pass rushers are, you can find them later in the draft or bargain FA's on a year to year basis if you evaluate properly. But #1 WR's are not as easy to come by, as we've shown by not being able to do it since Smitty outside of DJ, and really he never quite got to that Top 10 WR status here either. Give me the 6'5" 215 lbs WR with glue sticks for hands and more than solid speed and agility all day, those kind of WR's are near impossible to find these days. I'm telling you, 5 years from now he's going to be right there in the discussion with Jefferson, Chase, Harrison, etc as a clear Top 10 and in the discussion of Top 5 WRs in the league.

I absolutely get you. You fall for media hype and can't separate collegiate ability, impact, and highlights with projecting how the player translates to the NFL game. You did it with Bryce, you're doing it here (although you won't be near as wrong here than with Bryce as Hunter will still be a very good if not great NFL player at either position), and have done it with numerous other of your Panthers player personnel discussions over the last year or so. You seem to take my posts describing why I think Hunter will make for a better CB than WR and saying his 2 way ability in college has no bearing on his NFL draft prospects at a single position, as me tearing him down and not saying he's a great player, which is just nonsense as my literal words say the exact opposite time and time again. That's the crux of it, you don't want to take the time to actually read and comprehend what I've been saying about him, you just see "T-Mac over Hunter for X, Y, and Z objective reasons" and read it as "OH MY GOD HUNTER IS THE WORST PROSPECT IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL DRAFT AND I HATE HIM BECAUSE OF IT" Yes, I have a general T-Mac bias, I'm an Arizona alum, I haven't hidden from that. But I can also separate the two and look at them as pure WR prospects and regardless of my alumni status, I'd take T-Mac over Hunter 100 out of 100 times.

Ugh, why would you want to re-sign a 29 year old player to a big contract over drafting a 21 year old player with a much higher ceiling Id take Hunter over T-Mac if it’s that or re-signing Johnson to a big deal

This is a joke, right? this entire time I’ve said Hunter is my #3 WR and a generational college talent while you’ve been saying I tearing Hunter down instead of saying he’s great But now you’re saying I’m the one saying you’re disrespectful to put Hunter over him? No, I’m just saying you’re wrong and can’t or are unwilling to read/understand what I’ve been saying about Hunter.

Halfway through the first quarter and T-Mac has a grand total of 0 catches for 0 yards and 0 TDs He sucks

First of all, THAT post wasn't me Second of all, I've said that traits and how they project to the NFL game matter more than stats, but if you're going to look at stats, you have to look at them correctly anyways.

And per my latest post, that Hunter only has 108 more yards despite playing 2 more games so far? You want to discount a 300 yard game but ignore that? Okay, makes sense to me

Oh, and side note, if you're going to tout stats as the trump card in a discussion, maybe you should learn how to look at them better. Because yes, as of this moment, Hunter has 46 catches, 561 yards, and 6 TDs compared to T-Mac's 23, 453, and 4 TDs So yea, Hunter has 23 catches, 108 yards, and 2 TDs more than T-Mac, and like you said, T-Mac hasn't played yet today. But what you didn't look at is that Colorado already had played one more game than Arizona this season before this week as we were on bye last week, so those numbers are now having played 2 more games than T-Mac. Sure, the 23 more catches is impressive, but 108 more yards in 2 more games, not so much. That also points out my comparison between the two, Hunter isn't the downfield threat that T-Mac is.

Why are stats your end all be all in the discussion between two players? Since when do raw stats have anything to do with NFL potential, do you not realize how different the college game is and how the stats aren't everything? Malik Washington Oh, who's that you probably ask? He was a 6th round draft pick by the Dolphins this past year. Why do I bring him up you ask? Because he lead the nation last year with 110 catches, was 4th in yards, and a pathetic 26th in TD's BUT STATS!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! HOW CAN WE EVER JUDGE TWO PLAYERS DRAFT PROSPECTS AGAINST EACH OTHER ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN STATS?!?!?!?!?!