MHS831

No, you are right. Just ironic if he thwarted the careers of 2-3 other WRs in his efforts--I do not think he was trying to get the best out of DJ--I think he was competing with him--there is a difference, but nobody will know. I also think he did the same thing with Clausen. It is interesting, however, when you start drawing lines between who is cut due to the locker room stuff and who gets a pass--

THIS MIGHT PISS OFF SOME STEVE SMITH SR. FANS: He WAS detrimental to this team. Sure, he is on the hall of fame ballot and is probably our best player ever--but he punched 2 teammates--and that is the tip of the glacier. Remember, I watched him haze and belittle Dwayne Jarrett at an OTA. Jarrett even reacted by giving me a hard hand slap when I mentioned it to him--. I know bullying when I see it (educator who has written books about trauma caused by abuse and bullying) I have commented on the fact that nobody seemed to be friends with Smith except Kasay. He was a bully and the coaches allowed it. Bunch of Alpha males chewing the tall grass. Here is a list of all the WRs Steve Smith 'mentored" after they were drafted: 2003: Walter Young 2004: Keary Colbert, Drew Carter 2007: Dwayne Jarrett, Rhyne Robinson 2010: Brandon Lafell, Armanti Edward, David Gettis 2011: Kealoha Pilares 2012: Joe Adams That is 10 WRs drafted and only 1 had some degree of success, Brandon Lafell, who averaged around 600 yards a season for 8 years in the NFL--it is noteworthy that his numbers increased after leaving Carolina for NE. This proves nothing, but it is interesting and coincides with the list of free agents we brought in during that time. My argument: It is possible that whatever Smith contributed to this team could be a result of bullying others into more diminished roles--Smith called it competition, and in fairness, he was the hardest practicing player I ever watched at OTAs over the years. But it seems he was Napoleonic in his approach to teammates, possibly damaging the unit and keeping young players from developing--transitioning from college to the pros must be intimidating--especially when an established player is constantly attacking (challenging, to Smith) you as you are trying to learn the plays and culture. It was so bad when I saw him doing it to Jarrett, it pissed me off. I think Jarrett was pretty slow and was unsure of the plays etc--it was his rookie OTAs. This is not proof, just an interesting possibility. If you have ever had someone at your place of employment with some authority start harassing you, you might understand how a 21-year old kid might feel.

You don't pay to have cancer.

It is funny that it seems when a player goes batshit crazy, 80% of the time he is a WR.

I guess you could look at it this way: There is a LOT invested in Bryce right now. Do you continue to make sure that his development is improving, or do you abandon that momentum and salvage the defense? He is good, but he does NOT have that big name, big time WR. Going to get a WR we can call a #1 is probably stupid right now. Here is why: Higgins and Godwin, the two top options in free agency, imo, are #2 WRs who got a lot of balls because Chase and Evans were the focus of the defense--I think the system made them better than they would be here--without a #1 to give them single coverages and no safety over the top. THEY would suddenly be the #1, and their numbers would fall. What would their salaries be based on? Production in other cities. It rarely works. Most top WRs in free agency to go places with top QBs--we'd have to overpay the market then overpay the performance. Most if not all of the top free agent WRs were often the second option during the pre-snap reads or check down processes. Put him in the #1 WR shoes, he is more likely to struggle. Some key questions I ask myself: What is wrong with having 5 WRs who can catch the ball and no single person as the true #1? Imagine a group of 5 or 6 WRs featuring well rounded, talented WRs. Not a Rambo knife, a steak knife, and three butter knives--A Swiss Army Knife. Let the #1 emerge and develop on the roster-- What would benefit Bryce more--a #1 WR or a stud #1 TE and a good WR with a good defense? I understand the knee jerk reaction to give him weapons--but be smart about it.

THanks for this, OP. There could be some value here. Dax Milne was a player I thought might develop--Matthews could fill in at TE for a season if we lose Tremble and don't have the capital to address TE this year.....Raym could step up to backup center....Incoom played fairly well down the stretch (He is 25 and in VERY LIMITED play, had a good PFF score--he is where he should be--

Not to intervene--sometimes we can get pulled or pushed on here and it shifts from the Panthers to each other--but I respect both of your opinions--maybe some common ground, where you are 95% of the time? I am out--just a thought.

I heard or read that he was eyeballing the Jags job at one time. We shall see--after that owner threw the GM under the bus on national TV, I might reconsider---It was my opinion at the time that Jerry Richardson's "Pie chart" presser days before underclassmen had to declare for the draft was the reason Andrew Luck went back to school--same effect. If you recall, he made no damn sense, he seemed to hit on Morgan Fogherty and he trashed Darin Gantt.

He cost himself millions of dollars in the last six hours spent on a football field--like in the 30-40 million range. My diagnosis is this: The DCs looked at Jets Panthers tape and realized that they could get into his head--. Sam Darnold is the quintessential front runner--a fair weather friend--the loudest singer in the choir at weddings and the lip sync master at funerals. I would like to add that there were several sacks where I saw 2 or, at times, 3 OL looking dazed and confused. A few times he had 2 OL not touch a defensive player. I think Darnold just became a Colt or Brown.

saw this after my post at about 8:09 this AM---I stole your idea--great minds.

Welcome back, Sam.

McCarthy knows football--I am guessing da Bears. Dont want him in Nawlins.

I think we need a new DT (NT) and a 3T as well--both need to be starters. I see A Robinson as rotational at this point in his career. There are some good DL in the draft--but you dont want 2 rookies--one FA, one rookie, in my view. Tuttle sucked at NT, and then there is this:

Jones does whatever he can to keep the Cowboys in the news. He is pathetic because his antics hurt him in the long run.

If you have not seen THE BEST OF TIME you need to watch it--

Here is what i do not get--Morgan says, "We gonna get some DAWGS." XL has gifts, size, speed, but Morgan's first draft pick--the one he traded up for-- is not a dawg. I want him to do well, but he needs to be the alpha and take it to the defensive back. It is not just about being physical, but it is a mindset that makes you think you are the best player on the field--that the others are scared of you--it is not about running your mouth--it is between the ears. I think he will be better by next year. Forget the accent--forget the Possum pudding--get your frigging head right and start thinking that every ball in the air is your next touchdown.

Yeah, but he made teammates call him Laddness because he liked Hunger Games.

early day 3?

yeah, when you need 7 starters, that is a third of the starting roster. Not counting Horn (if he can't be signed, he needs to be dealt. If we could get a draft pick for him and save $25m or more, that is potentially three good players. I am big into trading back if Carter is gone--I think we can add 4 contributing starters if we do--I am also a fan of bringing in a stud pass catching TE (instead of reaching for a WR in the draft or free agency-not a good year). If we can add the pieces on the DL, we will improve. They made the LBs and DBs worse.

It is kinda like when girls you dated become lesbians after you break up. Was it you, or simply coincidence?

Remember, this is the guy who came out and told the press that the Panthers were going to draft him before they drafted him.

I understand that thought completely---depends on the board, but I think there will be a bunch available after the draft. Did you notice I forgot QB? Not intentionally, but we have talked about it so much, why bother now? I might draft Scattleboo or whatever because he is so unique (to me) and would play many roles (STs, good blocker, FB if needed, etc.)

January 11 2025: And so it was written.... Not getting into too much depth concerning new contract extensions etc–I figure Horn and Ickey (and possibly Jackson) are the priorities right now and it does not have to happen all at once. I think you decide what you need to be successful then work on contracts until it happens–I believe the Panthers expect to be competitive in 2025. The South is wide open–Tampa Bay is not a team that cannot be dethroned and they are aging, Atlanta is now riding on Pennix, and The Saints are headed for a roster overhaul, starting with Carr (word on the street says they were interested in Russell Wilson before his late season collapse.) Offensive Line. (1-2 depth players) Brady Christensen is going to pimp his services in free agency. He is a valuable backup, but I think he has been misused. He is a short-armed swing tackle, but we have him at G and C. Let him look. Nijman is still under contract for $5m per season and I think I would draft an OT (to backup and possibly Moton’s replacement in a year or two. Cutting Nijman would save $3.6 m and I think a rookie would give you as much Nijman has a 57.9 PFF rating, and I think that might be high, but his pass blocking rating was 84th of 141 OTs overall and his run blocking was 112 of 141 OTs. I think a rookie can do better, like maybe Kingston. Nijman will be 30.. Besides, you should draft an OL every year anyway. Tight End (1 starter). Ja’Tavion Sanders flashed too little and Tremble had 200+ yards entering Free Agency. In my view, neither is the Alpha TE we need at the position. Sanders is only 21, so he should get better, but Bryce Young needs a stud. Do not be surprised to see us make a move at TE. I think a top TE could improve our offense as much as any WR in this draft. Full stop. Wide Receiver (1 starter, 1 depth player). Xavier is a project in year 2 and I expect improvement from him. He needs to start being treated like a football player and not some novelty from a SC time warp. He will. Coker is becoming a solid pro. AT is flirting with time, but he is solid–shows that hands and route running mechanics are more important than 40 times. We could go WR in round 1 if T-Mac is there, or we could try to fill the WR room with Cokers. Maybe the way to give Bryce weapons is at TE and possession WR–I see a lot of them in the draft–few Alphas. For example, there are only 2 WRs that have first round grades, and only 1 projects to a #1–arguably. (I do not see Egbuka, Ohio State, as a first round prospect and he has never been a #1 on his college team). If you have 4-5 guys who can catch the ball and a TE who is also a threat, why do you need what we call a #1 WR? Currently, the Panthers have XL, Coker, AT- we should bring Moore back on the cheap. We need 2 more WRs, one needs to have the ability to start. If the Panthers added 1 WR (with the ability to start) and a #1 TE, this offense would improve, but we need a sixth WR regardless–injuries always happen and rarely is the WR room without a player sitting out. Running Back. (1 depth player) Sanders is probably gone. One of the previous administrations’ dumbest moves. Chuba has been solid, as we all know, and the draft is loaded at RB, which means there will be some UDFAs available. We need a RB who can block, catch, and hit the holes–It was hard to watch Arizona State without thinking, “That would be a great backup/short yardage RB and special teamer” when you saw Skatteboo or whatever his name is. As much as some of us think you don’t spend draft picks on RB, I say it is 10x better than signing a RB on a second contract. I think you might get more value out of a fifth round RB than you would a fifth-round CB or Edge. Cornerback. (1 starter). There is a lot of drama at this position. You have an oft-injured CB who will want pro bowler money because he is worth it when on the field. You have an UFA who came in and earned a starting job. Smith-Wade seems ready to play the nickel as the starter; a good tackler who seems pretty instinctive. Finally, Akayleb Evans and Shemar Bartholomew quietly proved that they should be the depth conversation in 2025, both with PFF scores in the mid fifties. I am confident the Panthers will sign Horn, but what to do if Mike Jackson leaves? Is the answer on the roster? Personally, I think if the Panthers get Jackson back, the starters are Horn, Jackson, and Smith-Wade with Evans and Bartholomew behind them entering camp–that is a decent–not great–CB room. I think you try to re-sign Mike Jackson because we know what he can do in this system. If the Horn extension negotiations do not go well, consider trading Horn for picks and cap room. At least you know that we are not giving guaranteed money to an ice tub Eskimo. Safety. (2, 1 starter, 1 depth) Demani Richardson is 24 and played 400+ snaps and has a 60+ PFF grade. He is a big S who can tackle. He was better than starting SS Jordan Fuller (54 PFF grade) who he split reps with, for the most part. Richardson starting at S is probably a given. On the other side, it is wide open. Woods played 1200 snaps with 3 picks but his PFF score was 57. He will be 30 next season, and is an UFA. We need a starting S and we need a backup. Nick Scott (UFA) is also going to be 30 and his PFF grade in 324 snaps is low (52.6). We can do better, so look for Richardson to be the SS and look for us to draft (probably) a FS to start. Inside Linebacker. (2, one starter, maybe 1 depth). Jewell (56.5 PFF) will be 32 and should play better with a better DL; however, he is a far cry from the Mills, Morgan, Beason, Luke tradition in Charlotte. Since one of those LBs is now our GM, I cannot see us watching Shaq leave without replacing him with a Dog. Wallace (56 PFF score) was fine, but behind that DL, hard to gauge. He seems to be a backup LB. I just do not see Morgan sitting back in this draft, with so many good LBs, and not getting a “Dawg.” to play inside. Windmon showed signs of having a shot, and they may want to look at Rhattigan a bit more. Still need that Alpha Dawg. Defensive Line: (2 starters, 1 depth) Gone: NT–Shy Tuttle (42.7 PFF score) Deshawn Williams (47.9 PFF score); LaBryan Ray (33 PFF score). NO WONDER WE SUCKED. Questionable: A’Shawn Robinson (DE) had a 54.6 PFF rating and is due $10m salary in 2025. He will be 30. Derrick Brown returns, but aside from Robinson, the cupboards appear to be bare. Yes, there is Jaden Crumedy (not good in 2024) and Sam Roberts who played 24 snaps in 2025, so who knows how deep this cut really is? Ideally, we could save a lot of $$ ($5m) by cutting Robinson, but we really have nothing else, so if you cut him, DE becomes a priority. I think he will be better with Brown and a good NT inside. We need a NT. We need a DE to challenge Robinson. Edge/OLB: (1 starter–or developmental rotational player) Clowney (70.8 PFF) has a $14m cap figure and Wonnum (55 PFF) has a $8m cap number. That is $22m for average to below average. Barno showed a few signs of turning the corner in very limited play this season (injured) and his salary is $1m. DJ Johnson had 1 pressure in nearly 400 snaps. Thomas Incoom only played 41 snaps, but his PFF score was nearly 80: he is 25. Cam Gill (27) played over 200 snaps but his PFF score was 49.1. If it were me, I would add a pass-rushing edge and keep Clowney, Wonnum, Barno, and Incoom. Need Starters (7): NT, S, WR, OLB, CB, TE, ILB . (While TE is not essential, it is more important than people realize and Tremble is a free agent. You could pencil in Sanders as a starter, but he is not starting material at this time….CB is removed from this list if we re-sign Mike Jackson or another quality veteran….OLB is a big need because long term need and rotational participation is emphasized at this position.) Need Depth: DE, OL, S, ILB, RB, WR

I think a free agent pass rusher (if we keep Wonnum and Clowney) would break the bank (without doing any research, mind you), so I think we have to look draft for that edge....S? I think we can get a free agent to help. I am guessing Fuller will not be back and Richardson will step up into that role--and I am also guessing that Woods will not be back--Of course,before teams start negotiating, you don't know what you have but I really like Tre'von Moehrig from the Raiders. He does not sound that interested in returning to Vegas. He is 26 and covers the field.

I liked Sawyer when he was a second rounder, but not in the first. I think he has limitations, but he is a dawg. Not sure he will ever be that 12 sack guy, but you will get 6 and he will hold the edge, imo. I am afraid this game will inflate his stock. I think this draft is pretty even from about pick 12 through the second round--not a huge dropoff--the play may be to trade back and get 3 players instead of staying at #8 and getting another pick at #54 or so. I think we are going to need 2 DL, 1 edge, 1 CB, 1 LB, and maybe 2 Safeties. Not sure if we are keeping Clowney and/or Wonnum-as much as it hurts our cap, we probably should.