MHS831

Did I say that? Once again, you have to childishly misrepresent my data so you can pound your chest without stats/data to argue. Have you followed his career? Nope--just watched the Giants lose and blamed the QB. sure, he has not played well of late--but the whole career tells a different story--one that you intentionally ignore because the facts I shared were stunningly revealing. The difference between Cam and Jones is statistically slight--Jones was on worse teams--that is not subject to debate. the rest is your opinion-why are you attacking my statistics and data because it disproves your opinion? Here is what we know--there is no answer--you do not know--and all I am doing is providing data that suggests we should kick the tires. I know it stings, but the point was not to say--"Man, that's Cam Newton." There you go again. You do not understand the point--Statistically, draw the line between the Greatness of Cam and the suckage of Jones--you can't, and that is why you simply provide no stats. Why attack people who disagree with your uninformed and unsupported opinions? To me, that is insecurity--hope it works out for you.

Actually, if you had an argument, you would present facts and data and stats like I did-is it that difficult for you to have someone with a different opinion? Calling names is pretty classy and intelligent. Read my posts, troll. Please ignore me--I only interact with people who have points.

Yes. And this converts directly to confidence. Does the coach have confidence to call a deep dig or seam route? Does Bryce have confidence in his ability to be the Alpha? Do his teammates have confidence. About film--when I see Cam Newton's pre-snap confidence vs. Bryce's, it is night and day. Film--tells you if the WRs are open (why l love watching the Replay telecasts from the end zone cameras--you can see it. I have seen 2 WRs open and Bryce's eyes are on the outlet WR or the pass rush. ) You can see progressions, and he has improved a bit--but he is very quick to rush through 1 and 2 and checkdown--that is a lack of confidence in his ability to read the defense. I had a former NFL TE (Deems Maye) who played QB in high school (not sure about college) tell me that the best QBs read the defense by knowing where everyone will be when the ball is to arrive--not where they are. I think his QB at the time was Humphries. He said that Humphries would throw the ball into coverage before the cuts etc. because he understood DB momentum, zone areas, etc. and he could just see it. Said so when people say nobody was open, they are usually right because nobody should be "open" when the QB has the ball--when the ball arrives, everyone should be open. He said Humphries was never "great" but his skills were limited--from a small school--but his ability to read a defense made him never give up on a route.

Stats really show the picture more than they lie, but I get what folks are saying. Tua in Miami, for example, just got a deal and his stats are inflated by some pretty explosive "after the catch" guys. I would say that Bryce has a better OL and has lost 3 of his top 4 WRs this year. He really has not had a great TE--so to be fair, stats work both ways. But you do not pay a QB $35m to learn football for 3 seasons. So to answer your question, do I feel that we can win with Bryce with 1 timeout, 2 minutes to go 80 yards, down by 5? No. When that answer is "Yes," we have our starter.

I saw that too--and what you said made sense because there is something like that in the rules--said that he is unlikely to get picked up (and I was not suggesting that we do) and Jones wants to go to a winning team. After getting beaten to death in NY behind a sub par OL, poor WRs, and brutal fan base, I get it.

Did I mention that he was on worse teams? Yes. Do QBs alone win games? No. Did Cam, on a much better team with some awesome defenses ever have 2 consecutive winning seasons? No. So now you are cherry picking, If the overall stats are similar, you take a look at him. I told you that you look at his skill set---but you wanted to tell me that he sucks and mentioned performance. I just presented performance--and his numbers are very similar to Cam Newton's numbers--a player most call the best Panther QB ever--and I agree. By the way, Fumbles are evidence of how bad his OL has been--so you are saying that a QB in a situation worse than Cam's who has stats and physical abilities very similar to Cam's should not be given a look when you have Bryce Young at QB? You are going with that story because you simply talked your way into a corner and now you are trying to save face. No good GM would do what you suggest because "he sucks." Sorry, but the facts do not support you. But no matter what eye-opening details I provide, there are some who are going to go their Google machines to try to find some reason to support an ignorant approach to developing the QB position. You ignored the similarities to Cam and went cherry picking. I know what you are doing--but I am only suggesting (as I have stated before) that we bring him in as one of three approaches to resolving the QB issue. Compete with Bryce and draft a QB. Basically, I am suggesting that Jones has the potential to replace Dalton and compete with Young. He is a battered stock that could get better in a better situation--that is human nature. Instead, I am called a Daniel Jones lover and superfan. That is good debate--But a real sign of mature thinking is the inability to LOGICALLY consider alternative perspectives--which is actually a characteristic of intelligence. Just so you know, I critique and perform research in my job. I am often amazed at how the numbers do not support my suppositions. I learned that my impression is often wrong until I look at the data. In this case, I have considered all the important variables and he should get a shot. Numbers don't lie--and when you and others resort to twisted name calling directed toward the poster--it verifies my position.

What the hell? How is presenting Cam's stats hating him? The point is not to hate Cam, it is to show you how similar Jones is to him and why you take a look at him. I mentioned Jones has the skill set to take a look--the response is, "look at his 5 years of performance." So I compare him to the greatest QB in franchise history, and the stats are similar--while Jones was in a worse situation. Now that is "hating?" Come on. This is a meritless, ignorant, personal attack because you are wrong. Just stop it. You all attack the poster when you have nothing. So saying "we should consider a guy with similar stats and size to Cam Newton" is now hating Cam and making me a Jones super fan- that is just stupid.

So a starting QB with 5+ years of experience and whose stats are very similar (if you do math) with Cam Newton's stats (who had much better defenses and offensive lines) here becomes available, and Bryce is your QB and you do NOT kick the tires on Jones. You simply call him a "broken toy" and do nothing. That sounds like a very passive approach. Remember, you labeled him, not the stats he accumulated on some pretty bad teams since 2019. I am telling you what a smart GM would do, and even if Jones is broken and can't be fixed, you make that determination after giving the matter due diligence. You and Completely are simply forcing your opinions about his play into logic, and the stats do not support them. Put him in a better situation and he will do better, but in a bad situation, with some terrible offensive lines, WRs, and bad defenses, he was on track to have stats that parallel Cam Newton--like it or not--numbers don't lie, nor does his size, arm strength, speed, and intelligence. Broken? I am saying he is an interesting prospect and should not be overlooked by bias, misinformation, and context.

You want stats? You want to evaluate performance? Lets compare Jones with Cam Newton. Crazy, right?

I am very sorry you can't comprehend this very simple concept. The fact that YOU think he sucks is not factored into anyone's evaluation--so you are trying to force your view into fact--the fact is, you kick the tires on every QB until you have one. Now, enough of this dumbassery. OK--wanna feel smart? Tell me what skills he lacks? Size? Arm? Mobility? Intelligence? Now---"He sucks" is not a fact or skill. I am saying if you can get his head right you might have something. That is all I said--and you think I should be attacked for expressing that perspective. I even said he is not the only option and if he sucks, cut him. But you take a look--you don't go full retard and start acting like you know stuff you don't. That is bullsht, and you are trying to sell it as intelligence. Buhhaaahaa

You allow him to compete--you all are talking as if I am proposing making him the starter. Give him a new coach, new weapons, good OL, etc. and see what happens. You are saying, "Well Damn. It did not work for 3 guys..." Right now, our C is injured, we lost our top 2 WRs. Better question: If you need a QB, Why would you not take a chance on bringing in a QB who was a former first rounder, a good arm, intelligence, mobility, youth, etc. and see how he does out of NY--with a better OL, better running game, better receivers. I am not saying give him a 10-year contract, I am saying give him a chance and if he does not work out, cut him and look for another. To me, how can you sit there with Bryce and an opportunity to sign a veteran QB on the cheap comes available and you say--"Not us. We're good. We are waiting for Patrick Mahommes." Jones' problem is obviously mental--and he has little support. Why is this so frigging hard to comprehend. It is called "bottom fishing" and it is better than sitting in the boat. Not giving him a shot is like a starving man turning down a hamburger because he thinks steak is better. You draft a QB too--why is this so damn hard--because he sucked on a bad offense? Most QBs would...Now I do not know why the are cutting him, but if you forget the performance on a bad team, you look at skills and potential--but I assure you, he was verbally abused in NY and it gets to you--crushes your confidence. Bring him home, let him regroup and see what he can do--why is that so outrageous? You like Bryce? You think we are drafting Cam Ward? What is your plan?

He is nearly as valuable as a starter.

He might suck--but instead of giving him a change in a new setting, and before GMs decide his value, they should just ask you. How was school today? Did they have pizza and corn?

thanks--I don't really keep up with that stuff. I think people see this as an all or nothing proposition. It is not--if he were to come here, it would have to be on a hometown discount and he would enter as one of four QBs. We watched Darnold and screamed, "He sucks!" and he is playing well for the Vikings with a good situation; We screamed, "Baker sucks!" and he signed a biggish deal with the Bucs and is a pretty nice fit in their system. You'd think we'd be willing to take a low-risk chance on this guy. NY is the worst place to play if you are on a bad team (Ask Aaron Rogers). The Giants have a banged up and fragmented roster. Jones is emotionally and mentally drained. Could he be done? Yep. Could he be good somewhere else with better weaponry, coaching, and protection. Yep.

I think they saw the QB market as one that would not be good for them when they picked, so they figured the top WRs--a huge need---would be smarter than reaching. I also know that they tried to upgrade their OL but then lost Barkley--I still think Shoen thought Jones would be better--and then injuries hit the OL and the WR corps struggled-you could argue chicken or the egg, but that was the plan--in my estimation

NOT at that salary, but at a team friendly deal, we'd be stupid not to give him a chance to compete. When you don't have a QB, you are in the market for a QB.

Back n 94 or 85 (We had just drafted Biakabatuka and Moose) I was at an OTA in Rock Hill and I bumped into Donnie Shell, the player personnel director, I believe. It was just after the AFC playoff final when Harbaugh was the Colt QB and he had a pass dropped in the end zone that would have beaten Pittsburgh. I grew up a Colt fan--so I told him how it made me sick, and he laughed--very nice guy. I then asked him about the Hall of Fame, and he said that he appreciated the thought and he prays for it, but there are so many of his teammates from that Steeler team who deserved it more--he said that it probably makes it more difficult for him because they do not want to let in every Steeler and they could argue that I was better because of my teammates. He was very humble. I told him that I was only a young kid, but I remember him bringing it just as much as the others--I was so happy when he was inducted--even after he laughed at my Colts.

BC struggled a bit vs Giants--but he is a solid, valuable backup. I liked him at C, and do not understand the Mays move--maybe a nagging injury?

Your problem is you focus on the person making the comment more than the fact that an opinion is just that--to call someone names where there is no correct answer, as much as you don't understand that, is juvenile. So if I explain how stocks that have terrible track records are purchased for pennies on the dollar--that is because the company has good fundamentals and is projected to grow if the sector indicators change. That is science--and it is NOT based on prior performance. I even said you do not put all your eggs in this basket--it is part of the process because it is low risk, high reward if it works out. I will provide another example: In Charlotte, they offered high performing teachers from South Charlotte a $20K bonus to transfer to the most challenging West Charlotte schools. These high-performing teachers struggled--most retired or resigned--did they forget how to teach?. Yet the teachers from West Charlotte Title I schools were dramatically improved in South Charlotte classrooms, most averaging increased test scores by over 50 points--unreal "growth." The Giants are one of those challenging schools. Jones is one of those teachers with low test scores who moves to South Charlotte to teach. So my point was you cannot rely on the stats from a hostile, negative environment to evaluate quality. Is Rogers changing the world in NY? Hell no. Did he suddenly suck? This concept requires an understanding of social and emotional impact on player development. Jones has the skills to be good. I am sorry you have to simplify everything to understand it. If we sign Jones on the cheap and he sucks and we cut him, what have we lost? If he feeds off the better OL and Running game and reaches his potential, we win. Low Risk, High Reward. It is a business decision--not some psychotic defending a loser--which makes it easy for you to attack. If you don't understand the discussions in the gray area, I guess you might attack the person with an opinion that reflects what other teams and players have done successfully. Not my job to educate you. Sue your public schools for malpractice because they did not teach you to think critically and objectively.

Defense of Jones? You need some reading comprehension skills--I was very clear and my reasoning was logical--to someone who is logical. You attack the people behind opinions that oppose yours--an adult learns to respect others' views. So O debated on whether I was going to engage a child in a sandbox, but when I say you cant go on past performance and explain my reasoning-why is your response to insult me using stats from past performance to validate your position? Duh. Please do not ask me to go back and research while you make a statement that is obviously void of research. Duh again--do you realize how hypocritically stupid that is? You simply are concrete operational, aren't you? (Research it)

Seriously? Of course his performance has been bad or he would not be available--you have to look past performance and look at his fundamentals. A Wall Street broker would understand that--the most money to be made is buying unloved stocks--stocks beaten down by performance for any number of reasons. A good investor looks at the sector, the context, the company fundamentals, and if he sees an opportunity for a rebound, he buys that stock for pennies on the dollar. In this situation, Jones has the following fundamentals and measureables: Intelligence, arm, mobility, size, age, and experiences that demonstrate he can be effective in better conditions (when his OL was average, WRs good, and RB great). You folks spit on every idea short of Cam Newton coming back for a third go at it. Forget his performance--we all know it has not been good. Most of you were banging the table for D. Watson, if I am not mistaken--where would we be if that happened? I see that as opportunity to get a "fixer upper" for pennies on the dollar who would come in to compete. However, as I mentioned before about Geno Smith, Goff, Baker, Carr, and Darnold--sometimes the situation is more to blame than the player. Bringing in Jones would not be the ONLY SOLUTION to the QB problem. He plays QB on a losing team in NY City that abuses losers. He is mentally at a low point--I get it--football is very emotional--has a ton of ups and downs, but he has been down far longer than up. Does that mean that I am saying he is going to be a great QB? Some of you scholars will draw that conclusion. I am saying he has all the markings of a beaten down stock that could recover and pay huge dividends to those who saw the fundamentals and took a chance. I still say draft a QB. Aside from Jones' fundamentals, the situation in Carolina is ideal for him: 1. An Offensive line--Carolina has a top 5 OL and it can be upgraded at C. 2. WRs--We need another WR or two, but our rookies are very promising (Legette and Coker). If Theilen has another year in him and we can acquire one, we could be above average. 3. TE--you have to like what Sanders has shown us, and Tremble (when healthy) is decent. I think we could add a TE once we say by to Thomas. 4. RB--Chubbard and Brooks? Solid. RB and the run blocking will be essential for a QB like Jones to turn it around. 5. A solid D. Well, we lost our ILB, star DE (Brown), and OLB (Wonnum) to injury. That is about 30% of the defense, and these were the best players. Those would have been the defense's best players, excluding Horn. We lost Burns We will add a DT, Edge, and probably an ILB. We will add a C, WR, and QB. His stock is beaten down. On wall street when that happens, investors look at fundamentals and not performance. We are not paying for past performance--we are paying for potential performance. Bring him home and out of the nasty Apple--give him a better supporting cast--and let him mentally recover. Pennies on the dollar for a potential good qb. Just needs to get his mind right.

I thought you have to a QB rating without a negative in front of the number.

What the hell is going on in this crazy world we all live in? OK, maybe the intro was too dramatic, but look at the plight of some established QBs on huge mega deals: 24. Aaron Rodgers 50.7 QBR 25. Dak Prescott 47.4 26. Daniel Jones 47.0 31. Derek Watson 22.4 Meanwhile, unloved stocks with much lower salaries when signed who have busted on their previous teams are outperforming these guys making $50m or so a year: 10. Derek Carr 61.5 14. Jared Goff 59.1 18. Baker Mayfield 56.4 19. Sam Darnold 55.5 https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr So if these 4 retreads are outperforming 4 QBs getting paid bank, what does that say about the market? I should add that the top 9 QBs were drafted by their current teams--and three of them were not picked in the first 30 picks of their respective drafts--one was Mr. Irrelevant. Three were first overall picks. Interesting note: Cousins is ranked 15th, and he got pulled for the Falcon's first round rookie on Sunday. I realize that there are many ways to evaluate a QB, but here were some shockers: CJ Stroud is #20. Jayden Daniels (love him) is ranked #5 and Drake Maye is #12. Caleb Williams is #27. For some unexplained reason, Bryce was not listed.

This team tends to go on a playoff tear once they have been eliminated. Seems Rivera was known for it. I don't see a game in our future where we will be the favorite--but they could be trap game spoilers. I am not 100% sold on Ward, so I will be pulling for them to win--I just think a player like Nussmeier or Allar--different styles--could be the better NFL QB. Then there are the players like Rourke at Indiana and Ohio State's Hamilton---he gets no love--and that short QB from Oregon has some fire. Ewers at Texas could be good if he can stay healthy--I am basing this on the fact that each year, nobody seems to grab the right QB in the draft--it blows my mind how wrong these experts really are. I would be delighted to get an Edge and then Allar--if he comes out. I may be too high on these QBs but several have stepped up this year and made me wonder.

I know-I think they must be auditioning at this point. Giants tanking, not going to win another game.