Excellent article on Cam Newton and dissection of a great play at Pre-Snap Reads

[t96]

Sure Rivera made some mistakes which new coaches do.  But his game management wasn't that different last year except he took more chances on 4th down. You can't say his game management sucked one year and was great the next based on a total of 10 fourth quarter plays out of a total of 500 offensive plays.  Part of the reason for the change was trusting Cam's development and the ability to make plays and read defenses that he didn't so great in his first 2 years.  The offense wasn't fine his first 2 years.  There were way too many three and outs and inconsistent play.  Sure we hit more long plays and home runs but much of that was due to being behind and having to throw to catch up.  We definitely couldn't win we when we had to which is evident is how many fourth quarter comebacks we had last year versus the previous 2 seasons.  It is easy to just blame Shula and Rivera for the offense and give everyone else a pass but that is plain wrong and is most frequently spouted by Newton huggers or Shula haters.

 

Your post kind of implies that the blame should be put on Cam, and sorry if that's not what you're trying to say, but the blame is mainly the lack of talent we have on offense outside of Cam and RB. Shula, Rivera deserve some blame, we had no d-line and couldn't stop the run and Cam wasn't perfect.

[panthers55]

Your post kind of implies that the blame should be put on Cam, and sorry if that's not what you're trying to say, but the blame is mainly the lack of talent we have on offense outside of Cam and RB. Shula, Rivera deserve some blame, we had no d-line and couldn't stop the run and Cam wasn't perfect.

Football is a team sport and the quarterback for better or worse either gets too much credit or too much blame.  Honestly nothing in my post implies that the blame should be put on Cam or any one player or coach.  Cam, Shula and Rivera are still learning and developing and improving.  None of them are blameless nor should they bear the brunt of the critcism or praise. Cam for instance isn't a finished product at this point and therefore still makes mistakes.  On the other hand he has done some amazing things given that most pundits initially thought that it would take him 2 years or more just to learn the offense and he clearly has proven that he is a quick learner and is able to put that information to work right way instead of taking years like some players.

 

I don't know why Cam has to polarize this message board like it does the general media.  As you note, Cam isn't perfect  but he surely isn't our biggest concern either.  In a few years he might be the best QB in the league.  Even now he is the most athletic.

[xerxes]

Chud was brilliant at play design, but he sucked as a coach. He didn't get along with the rest of the offensive staff, and he didn't give players the opportunity to actually learn the plays.

Shula can't play design his way out of a paper bag, but he knows how to make players comfortable with what they're running.

[FootballMaestro]

Sure Rivera made some mistakes which new coaches do.  But his game management wasn't that different last year except he took more chances on 4th down. You can't say his game management sucked one year and was great the next based on a total of 10 fourth quarter plays out of a total of 500 offensive plays.  Part of the reason for the change was trusting Cam's development and the ability to make plays and read defenses that he didn't so great in his first 2 years.  The offense wasn't fine his first 2 years.  There were way too many three and outs and inconsistent play.  Sure we hit more long plays and home runs but much of that was due to being behind and having to throw to catch up.  We definitely couldn't win we when we had to which is evident is how many fourth quarter comebacks we had last year versus the previous 2 seasons.  It is easy to just blame Shula and Rivera for the offense and give everyone else a pass but that is plain wrong and is most frequently spouted by Newton huggers or Shula haters.

 

Sigh

 

So you're saying/implying Rivera never blew games and mismanaged the team (on and off the field)? Many of these things we seen our selves; are documented, and/or easy to remember.

 

Has nothing to do with the players. Rivera has admitted to this stuff (and him not being ready/learning) already. The fact that he was experiencing on the job training (as you acknowledged) doesn't make any of his mismanagement less real. It's a fact. It happened. 

 

Note: some stats show Chud's offense was actually more efficient than last years. However, I'm not here to debate that. 

 

You miss the point of what I wrote. This wasn't a revival of critiquing Rivera (you seem a bit amped and touchy for something so innocuous so early during the off season) and Chud. It was more so to point out, 'most outside reporters refrain from critiquing Rivera (as they would other coaches), cause they don't follow or care about the Panthers enough to know better'. That's the main take away. 

[panthers55]

Chud was brilliant at play design, but he sucked as a coach. He didn't get along with the rest of the offensive staff, and he didn't give players the opportunity to actually learn the plays.

Shula can't play design his way out of a paper bag, but he knows how to make players comfortable with what they're running.

Chud didn't allow Cam to call his own plays and to audibalize.  Shula allows cam to take control of the offense and learn to run the team.  I will take his style over Chud anyday.

 

As for play design, I remember several times where commentators like Jon Gruden who knows offense commented that his play design for example on tight end screen was actually innovative and original.

[panthers55]

Sigh

 

So you're saying/implying Rivera never blew games and mismanaged the team (on and off the field)? Many of these things we seen our selves; are documented, and/or easy to remember.

 

Has nothing to do with the players. Rivera has admitted to this stuff (and him not being ready/learning) already. The fact that he was experiencing on the job training (as you acknowledged) doesn't make any of his mismanagement less real. It's a fact. It happened. 

 

Note: some stats show Chud's offense was actually more efficient than last years. However, I'm not here to debate that. 

 

You miss the point of what I wrote. This wasn't a revival of critiquing Rivera (you seem a bit amped and touchy for something so innocuous so early during the off season) and Chud. It was more so to point out, 'most outside reporters refrain from critiquing Rivera (as they would other coaches), cause they don't follow or care about the Panthers enough to know better'. That's the main take away. 

So why do you seem to want to paint other people in extreme positions?  Because that it the only way you can defend your posts or criticize others??

Who said Rivera didn't make mistakes or didn't need to learn.  The point is that his playcalling was not that much better or worse than before other than he decided to be more aggressive on 4th down.  And he did that repeatedly because it worked.  If he had called a play on 4th down and it blew up in his face 4 or 5 times in a row, he wouldn't have kept doing it.

 

The issue is that you constantly blame Shula and Rivera, yet give all the players a pass and that is why I commented.  Cam makes mistakes as do other players along with coaches and referees for that matter.  Any game that is predicated on human actions is fraught with error and subjectivity.  

 

The difference between us is that I acknowledge it is inherent and tend to distribute it equally and you tend to hold players to one standard and coaches to another.  People don't criticize Rivera because he was coach of the year and he is generally considered by most people outside of the huddle as a very good coach.  It isn't they don't know better and if they did they would criticize him more which is your take away which is frankly biased and unfounded.

[LA_Panther]

I was in that bulding. They started to leave in the 3rd wuarter. Great game

[iamhubby1]

Chud was brilliant at play design, but he sucked as a coach. He didn't get along with the rest of the offensive staff, and he didn't give players the opportunity to actually learn the plays.

Shula can't play design his way out of a paper bag, but he knows how to make players comfortable with what they're running.

I remember reading that the main difference between Shula and Chud was that Chud would install a play, run it a couple of times, then use it in the game whether the guys knew it or not. Whereas Shula, when installing a play, will run it until everyone gets it.

The players have more confidence in Shula's approach. Not every play works perfectly. But if the players have more confidence, the plays tend to be more successful.

Now, if we can get the talent around Cam to actually execute the plays. That would help.

[FootballMaestro]

So why do you seem to want to paint other people in extreme positions?  Because that it the only way you can defend your posts or criticize others??

Who said Rivera didn't make mistakes or didn't need to learn.  The point is that his playcalling was not that much better or worse than before other than he decided to be more aggressive on 4th down.  And he did that repeatedly because it worked.  If he had called a play on 4th down and it blew up in his face 4 or 5 times in a row, he wouldn't have kept doing it.

 

The issue is that you constantly blame Shula and Rivera, yet give all the players a pass and that is why I commented.  Cam makes mistakes as do other players along with coaches and referees for that matter.  Any game that is predicated on human actions is fraught with error and subjectivity.  

 

The difference between us is that I acknowledge it is inherent and tend to distribute it equally and you tend to hold players to one standard and coaches to another.  People don't criticize Rivera because he was coach of the year and he is generally considered by most people outside of the huddle as a very good coach.  It isn't they don't know better and if they did they would criticize him more which is your take away which is frankly biased and unfounded.

 

WTH is wrong with you man!?

 

I'm totally confused. First of all the article praised Cam, and actually criticized the other players. You're all over the place on this. 

 

All I said was: 'you notice magazine articles, will blame every one else for the Panthers first two years, except Rivera, cause they don't know better'. Simple. No ever said Rivera was the only reason. And it wasn't just on 4th downs. Rivera mismanaged time outs on several occasions--costing the Panthers games; made the wrong situational calls; couldn't contain Chud/went along with his Read Option Focus; wasn't aggressive when he needed to be (play calling), along with the 4th down stuff, etc... Rivera said he had to grow as a coach, and pointed a lot of that stuff out. There was a reason he had such a terrible record in close games, and why the Panthers blew a slew of games they lead in the second half. I think someone else needs to own up.  

 

I didn't even want to point that stuff out, cause my focus wasn't to criticize Rivera. It was more a comment on the general media. 

 

And I'm not a critic of Shula. So I know you're going off the deep end, so I will end this now. I'm not even sure why you responded, and especially in this manner. I ask you to please not to respond to my post again (or I'll just ignore you). 

 

You're crazy man (how appropriate). 

[panthers55]

WTH is wrong with you man!?

 

I'm totally confused. First of all the article praised Cam, and actually criticized the other players. You're all over the place on this. 

 

All I said was: 'you notice magazine articles, will blame every one else for the Panthers first two years, except Rivera, cause they don't know better'. Simple. No ever said Rivera was the only reason. And it wasn't just on 4th downs. Rivera mismanaged time outs on several occasions--costing the Panthers games; made the wrong situational calls; couldn't contain Chud/went along with his Read Option Focus; wasn't aggressive when he needed to be (play calling), along with the 4th down stuff, etc... Rivera said he had to grow as a coach, and pointed a lot of that stuff out. There was a reason he had such a terrible record in close games, and why the Panthers blew a slew of games they lead in the second half. I think someone else needs to own up.  

 

I didn't even want to point that stuff out, cause my focus wasn't to criticize Rivera. It was more a comment on the general media. 

 

And I'm not a critic of Shula. So I know you're going off the deep end, so I will end this now. I'm not even sure why you responded, and especially in this manner. I ask you to please not to respond to my post again (or I'll just ignore you). 

 

You're crazy man (how appropriate). 

I am the crazy one when I take you to task for your blaming Rivera and Shula and putting Cam on a pedestal.  Just like I am crazy to point out your ridiculous posts saying you aren't criticizing Rivera after you bring up every negative thing you can  think of and say you didn't want to point it out.  The same way you took shots at Shula all year while taking anyone to task when they said anything wrong about Cam.  But you aren't a Shula critic. And you don't just blame them although you make excuses for everyone but them.  

What is sad is that you actually believe what you are posting and think it is a logical and rational point of view.  You are confused my friend for sure.  But count on someone else to help you out.  I know when to exit stage left, it will only devolve from here on your part and I don't care enough to waste more time.  It isn't an obsession for me.

[FootballMaestro]

I am the crazy one when I take you to task for your blaming Rivera and Shula and putting Cam on a pedestal.  Just like I am crazy to point out your ridiculous posts saying you aren't criticizing Rivera after you bring up every negative thing you can  think of and say you didn't want to point it out.  The same way you took shots at Shula all year while taking anyone to task when they said anything wrong about Cam.  But you aren't a Shula critic. And you don't just blame them although you make excuses for everyone but them.  

What is sad is that you actually believe what you are posting and think it is a logical and rational point of view.  You are confused my friend for sure.  But count on someone else to help you out.  I know when to exit stage left, it will only devolve from here on your part and I don't care enough to waste more time.  It isn't an obsession for me.

 

You are one crazy, loony dude man. 

 

Get some help please. 

 

No time for your silly nonsense, hyperventilations, epic imagination/assumptions, and juvenile pseudo/wannabee mind games. 

 

Promptly Ignored!!!!!!!!!!

[Gin and Juice]

Before Rivera played his first snap as a NFL head coach, he warned the fan base that we would be like little brother and that we would eventually grow up to kick some butt of our own. He admitted that he had much to learn and along the way he has even admitted his mistakes. You cannot ask for a better character and leader than Rivera.

One of the best things to happen for Rivera's philosophy was bringing in a mentor of a manager on the same page, someone old school such as Gettleman. Both understand that the team is above the player. Most signs point to this being the reason that Smith was let go. No doubt Smitty has been the lone bright spot of this team for a long while, but in order to build sustainability then the locker room had to change.

Cam has admitted to needing learn and grow. He is doing so very well! It thrills me to no end that Luke thinks he is nowhere near as good as we and the media made him out. Trai Turner leaves rookie camp talking about how much he has to learn and grow. Hardy has constantly grown and even CJ has continued to improve. The coaching staff took other team's waste and put them into high profile contracts this offseason.

Now, not sure how many of you guys have a true understanding of team concepts, but the most important trait to any successful team is ACCOUNTABILITY of the entire team, players and staff. As long as the most driven concept is individual accountability then we will continue to be a team that improves every year, can work through injuries, and can develop players to take over key roles. Accountability is everything and when players buy in and feel that they are a part of greater then success is always the outcome

[CharlottePanther]

Byron Bell oh lawd

Seriously, wtf is bell doing there? Bet you could have a decades worth of laughs of gifs from that Bills game. Damn the dude sucks